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got this in an email
Bad Andy
Posts: 848
On my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed. Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference -- just imagine the coincidence.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight. I went outside, gave the homeless guy $5 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful. At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more. I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.
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Sadly, yes, I honestly do. But that aside, this was a FUNNY post!
I know people on both sides of the aisle who can have an intelligent, engaged discussion of public policy, and I know people on both sides who can't. I generally avoid the latter because talking to them just wastes my time and raises my blood pressure; there's nothing I can say that they're going to hear, since they're already convinced -- without knowing me or having ever heard me say a word -- that I'm nothing but an ignorant, idiotic, self-serving, special-pleading, America-hating troll.
That's the attitude Boortz's disclaimer expresses. To whatever degree you share it, I don't think you'll ever meet a liberal who won't just reinforce your prejudices, because the only ones who'll bother engaging with you are the liberal Boortz-equivalents -- who do it for the fun of making a noise and getting a rise out of people, not in the interest of having an intelligent conversation.
If you intended to refer only to "the majority of...", then we had a miscommunication, is all. No harm, no foul.
Going forward from that point, then, I'm not sure what distinguishes liberals in this regard from any other group. The majority of people are shallow, ignorant, and closed-minded -- conservative people, liberal people, rich people, poor people, American people, Zulu people . . . you name it. Also, I still don't think you're going to encounter many of the intelligent, reasonable liberals if you're giving off a Boortz vibe.
(BTW, I wasn't angry, dewd. I was just making observations.)
I'm sorry there was a miscommunication there, I believe that the majority of liberals are liberal because it is the "IN" and "trendy" way to be. I have no respect for someone that chants and screams for Obama, but can't tell you more than one issue, if any, that they agree with him on.
On the other hand, you and I disagree on many issues and I do enjoy debating with you on here and I respect you because you do have a point and you do know what you are talking about. Its not like either of us are "right". Its all a matter of opinion and I don't hold that against anyone. But I do totally agree that the majority of ALL people are shallow, ignorant, and closed-minded.
i tend to view hard left liberals as more "elitist" than anything else, with the attitude of "the government will spend your money better than you ever possibly could, so they have every right to take it from you and spend it as they see fit."
I tend to view hard right conservatives as being very closed minded with the attitude of "Gays, Atheists, Pagans, vegetarians and hippies have no idea how the world works and need to meet God"
i am an equal opportunity hater. I hate everyone the same.
on that note... I am ever so slightly on the conservative side of Libertarian. I say "the conservative side" because i do live the conservative lifestyle (minus the church thing) and tend to think in terms of how i lead my life.
as far as you guys arguing:
stop it!
seriously, this is a cigar forum. if you two disagree just know not to talk to each other about this topic.
smoke a cigar and cancel out each others votes.
and good thing you guys cleared it up.
i dont wanna open an aged can of whoop ass
... aged from when that joke was funny....
There are places where it's trendy to be liberal, but there are at least as many where all the social pressure pushes one to be conservative. True. It's just me.
I grew up in the bible belt too, I am from TX. I am not a religious person, I haven't been to a church service since I was probably 13 or 14. I understand the pressure to "fit in" with the bible thumping crowd, but my political stance isn't because of or in spite of my environment. It is just what makes sense to me and how I believe things would work best. The Hollywood crowd is a prime example of this.
The people who are pressured into being liberals have no spine, the people who are conservatives so they look tough and self-sufficient have no brains.
I don't see that there are really many people out there trying to be a conservative to "look" tough or self-sufficient. I don't see how that would make you look tough...
But I am very proud to be self sufficient. I do take great pride in the fact that I work and put food on the table for my family. I put clothes on my son's back and a roof over his head. I am very proud that I do that and don't ask the government to do it for me. IF thats what you are calling brainless I totally disagree, thats what I call being a responsible and productive member of society.
Let me first take a step back and explain my problem with labels... Labels DEFINE things ... definatively...
Here's an example... (Ohh NO! Religion AND Politics)... I'm Zen Buddhist... Buddhists BELIEVE in a creator.. Regardless of rather you think that creator is a being, an entity, even just energy, or whatever, SOMETHING created all of this... I think pretty much everyone can agree with that last statement... Do you have any idea the number of times I've been in a conversation with a Christian or sat in a pew in church listening to a preacher and heard a comment made about the "isms"? Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc...
"ALL a DISBELIEF IN GOD!"
Why is it that someone can see fit to "speak" about the beliefs of another religion without truely knowing ANYTHING about it? Would this not fit Puro's "Obama supporter who doesn't know one issue they agree with him on" description?
Anyway, getting back on track... I can't tell you the number of times I've heard reference to Buddhism being a disbelief in God...
Well... It's not...
I would consider a more accurate description as a "Disbelief In Labels"
You see, when we LABEL something we attempt to define it... If I say "This is a table" I've DEFINED exactly what it is... It's something with 4 or more legs which has a horizontal surface to place things on... It'll never be a turkey dinner, or a good book, or a good cigar... It's a table...
So Buddhists choose not to LABEL the creator of this with ANY word, even "God"... It's impossible for us to EVER "understand" and "define" something that magnificent... Attempting to put a label on it, attempting to DEFINE it and acting as though we're even CAPABLE of understanding it enough TO define it is truely just a disrespect...
So anyway, bringing this full circle back to the political portion... Why is it people are so ready to label themselves, AND others when it comes to politics?
I have people ask me all the time rather I'm democrat or republican... liberal or conservative... right wing or left wing...
Sorry folks, but even when you add varying degrees, I just don't FIT your labels...
In my opinion all they do (the labels) are cause people to make preconcieved judgements about others.
Just as was done here, in this thread...
Imagine the possibilities here for just a moment...
If we threw away all the labels, we could look at what was REALLY important... the issues... We could have tons of various issues and we could find out where each candidate stood on each issue... We wouldn't have to make assumptions about where they stood, we could simply ask... They wouldn't stand on one side simply because that's where their LABEL tells them they should...
I've said it, and I've heard it echoed by others time and time again... I don't think EITHER candidate will make a great president...
IF we got rid of the labels we wouldn't have just "two" choices anymore... We'd have LOTS of choices.... People wouldn't feel like they were "throwing away their vote" by not following one of the two major labels, and at the same time, those who DID throw away their vote by voting for someone they believe in much less would feel much more comforted by placing their vote in the candidate that shared THEIR beliefs...
Imagine, a presidential election that had 15 or 20 candidates running instead of 2... Who would have thunk it???
Seriously though... Why DO people "file in" and align themselves with what the labels define rather than just having their own beliefs?
Why is it if I'm pro-choice I can't head out to the range with my assult rifle and have some fun with the boys?
Why can't I urge on stem cell research and grow Lassy a new liver while urging on our boys to kick some serious ass over in Iraq?
Why can't I go to my best friend's wedding to her lez lover while driving my big ass SUV and urging them to fire up more drills in alaska???
Isn't it sort of ironic that we always talk about thinking outside of the box and standing up for what WE believe in while we all just stuff ourselves inside these neat little boxes marked with a D or an R???
So is it just me? Is it just me that has wild beliefs that span the range from far left to far right??? Do others out there TRUELY just have their beliefs all fall within one nicely LABELED definition??? Or are they really just restricting their beliefs so they don't stray to far outside of their definition???
i am pro choice (but will never encourage an abortion EVER) and have a rifle and a shotgun.
I went to my brother's wedding where he got married to his husband. We did show up in an SUV, and i do want more oil drillin in alaska.
sorta new concept:
I dont remember who it was that said this but they were running for election a while a go: "if you agree with 80% of what I do then vote for me, If you agree with 100% of what i do then check yourself into a mental institute because nobody agrees with everything all the time"
tying these few concepts together:
I agree with the libertarian party about 80% of the time. that is why i "feel the need" to put a label on at least myself and "fall into" that group.