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The wrapper term "natural",......is kinda pissin' me off.

Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Cigar 101
How many different types of wrappers can be called "Natural"? Is it a term from the growing process? Is it in reference to color? If it is just in reference to color, what good is that? I SEE colors but I taste tobacco.

The more I study this term,....... it's kinda' pissin' me off. WTF is wrong with me? :-/

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    allsmokedupallsmokedup Posts: 751 ✭✭
    Anything that hasn't been fermented extra long to be considered maduro or oscuro is considered "natural". That's all it is.
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    Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    allsmokedup:
    Anything that hasn't been fermented extra long to be considered maduro or oscuro is considered "natural". That's all it is.
    Thank you for that direct explaination. If that's all there is to it,......I feel a little better. LOL
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    PAtoNHPAtoNH Posts: 429 ✭
    Used to be called EMS (English Market Selection). Have you noticed that Candela wrappers seem to be trying to make a comeback?? (perfect for St. Patrick's Day)
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    bbass2bbass2 Posts: 1,059 ✭✭
    Yep, I translate it to mean anything except maduro or oscuro. All of the options and flavors for something seemingly as simple as rolled dried leaves leaves my mind boggled and that is part of the intriguing part of cigars for me. Different strains of tobacco which have distinct flavors which can be grown in shade or sun for different flavors which can be grown in different climates and soils for different flavors which can be fermented for different flavors...
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    allsmokedup:
    Anything that hasn't been fermented extra long to be considered maduro or oscuro is considered "natural". That's all it is.
    oscuro isnt just extra fermentation. it is possible to have a lighter oscuro.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    rzamanrzaman Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭
    It is a marketing terms to avoid the truth or unwilling to talk about the type of tobacco leaf. Padron use the term a lot. Most of the time it is either Corojo 98, 99 or Criollo Habano wrapper. Now you gonna ask me what is Habano right? Well, both Corojo and Criollo are hybrid seeds from Cuban Habano 2000(from Rodreguez finca) and a cigarette tobacco bell something number? can't remember now. I am still trying to learn about different tobaccos.
    Bob Luken:
    How many different types of wrappers can be called "Natural"? Is it a term from the growing process? Is it in reference to color? If it is just in reference to color, what good is that? I SEE colors but I taste tobacco.

    The more I study this term,....... it's kinda' pissin' me off. WTF is wrong with me? :-/
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    Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, they (the marketing guys) seem to be avoiding the name of the actual wrapper on their cigars. "Natural" provides very little info if it only means "not maduro". They may not be ultimately hiding anything, but they make you dig deeper to learn exactly what wrapper they are calling natural. It's just annoying to me. Not a big deal really but annoying. LOL
    rzaman:
    It is a marketing terms to avoid the truth or unwilling to talk about the type of tobacco leaf. Padron use the term a lot. Most of the time it is either Corojo 98, 99 or Criollo Habano wrapper. Now you gonna ask me what is Habano right? Well, both Corojo and Criollo are hybrid seeds from Cuban Habano 2000(from Rodreguez finca) and a cigarette tobacco bell something number? can't remember now. I am still trying to learn about different tobaccos.
    Bob Luken:
    How many different types of wrappers can be called "Natural"? Is it a term from the growing process? Is it in reference to color? If it is just in reference to color, what good is that? I SEE colors but I taste tobacco.

    The more I study this term,....... it's kinda' pissin' me off. WTF is wrong with me? :-/
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    dandin1dandin1 Posts: 175 ✭
    Bob Luken:
    How many different types of wrappers can be called "Natural"? Is it a term from the growing process? Is it in reference to color? If it is just in reference to color, what good is that? I SEE colors but I taste tobacco.

    The more I study this term,....... it's kinda' pissin' me off. WTF is wrong with me? :-/

    Nothing wrong with you, haha. The same thing happens to me. I look up a cigar to see what wrapper and it either says natural, not available, or just says a country. Might as well be a mystery. Pretty aggravating when you're a new guy trying to learn what you like/don't like.
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    webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dandin1:
    Bob Luken:
    How many different types of wrappers can be called "Natural"? Is it a term from the growing process? Is it in reference to color? If it is just in reference to color, what good is that? I SEE colors but I taste tobacco.

    The more I study this term,....... it's kinda' pissin' me off. WTF is wrong with me? :-/

    Nothing wrong with you, haha. The same thing happens to me. I look up a cigar to see what wrapper and it either says natural, not available, or just says a country. Might as well be a mystery. Pretty aggravating when you're a new guy trying to learn what you like/don't like.
    All very true. Ideally, you would like to know:
    1) What seed
    2) What country
    3) What process

    I wouldn't doubt that vagueness retards sales; especially when a thing is first introduced. I will certainly pay for a try much more readily if I know what's inside.

    Had a discussion here once with a fellow who did not think that even so much as a flavor description ought to be desirable. We were talking about a boutique shop in West Virginia. The more specs the better, I think.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
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    dandin1dandin1 Posts: 175 ✭
    webmost:
    dandin1:
    Bob Luken:
    How many different types of wrappers can be called "Natural"? Is it a term from the growing process? Is it in reference to color? If it is just in reference to color, what good is that? I SEE colors but I taste tobacco.

    The more I study this term,....... it's kinda' pissin' me off. WTF is wrong with me? :-/

    Nothing wrong with you, haha. The same thing happens to me. I look up a cigar to see what wrapper and it either says natural, not available, or just says a country. Might as well be a mystery. Pretty aggravating when you're a new guy trying to learn what you like/don't like.
    All very true. Ideally, you would like to know:
    1) What seed
    2) What country
    3) What process

    I wouldn't doubt that vagueness retards sales; especially when a thing is first introduced. I will certainly pay for a try much more readily if I know what's inside.

    Had a discussion here once with a fellow who did not think that even so much as a flavor description ought to be desirable. We were talking about a boutique shop in West Virginia. The more specs the better, I think.



    I agree. I like to know what to expect and after I know what is put into one cigar I can base decisions on buying others on my opinion of what I know. Hands on learning.
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    rzaman:
    It is a marketing terms to avoid the truth or unwilling to talk about the type of tobacco leaf.
    yup.
    i have heard this many times before.
    even the manufacturers that seem the most open about what tobaccos they put in a cigar are not really telling you anything. I mean, who wants to give out their secret blends?
    lets look at the Drew Estates (one of the most open companies out there as far as putting info on the web) UF-4 for example:

    Liga Privada UF-4 by Drew Estates (6 x 52)
    Wrapper: Connecticut River Valley Stalk Cut & Cured Sun Grown Habano
    Binder: Plantation Grown Brazilian Mata Fina
    Filler: Nicaraguan
    Blender: Johnathan Drew

    this cigar was effectively a test blend for the T-52. there is a ton of info on both of those cigars. but if you really break it down the above info on the cigar it will tell you very little.

    Wrapper: Connecticut River Valley Stalk Cut & Cured Sun Grown Habano...
    corojo or criollo? what priming? how was it fermented? was it aged after it was fermented?
    all we know is where it was grown and how it was harvested.

    Binder: Plantation Grown Brazilian Mata Fina
    again... what plantation? how was it grown there? priming, fermentation, age, etc...?

    Filler: Nicaraguan

    uh... anything else? different regions in Nicaragua taste different. how much ligero? what seco? any viso? how was it grown cured? what kind of seed?

    im sure very few people know this and im sure DE wants to keep it that way.


    i cant say i blame them .

    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    Gray4linesGray4lines Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    rzaman:
    It is a marketing terms to avoid the truth or unwilling to talk about the type of tobacco leaf.
    yup.
    i have heard this many times before.
    even the manufacturers that seem the most open about what tobaccos they put in a cigar are not really telling you anything. I mean, who wants to give out their secret blends?
    lets look at the Drew Estates (one of the most open companies out there as far as putting info on the web) UF-4 for example:

    Liga Privada UF-4 by Drew Estates (6 x 52)
    Wrapper: Connecticut River Valley Stalk Cut & Cured Sun Grown Habano
    Binder: Plantation Grown Brazilian Mata Fina
    Filler: Nicaraguan
    Blender: Johnathan Drew

    this cigar was effectively a test blend for the T-52. there is a ton of info on both of those cigars. but if you really break it down the above info on the cigar it will tell you very little.

    Wrapper: Connecticut River Valley Stalk Cut & Cured Sun Grown Habano...
    corojo or criollo? what priming? how was it fermented? was it aged after it was fermented?
    all we know is where it was grown and how it was harvested.

    Binder: Plantation Grown Brazilian Mata Fina
    again... what plantation? how was it grown there? priming, fermentation, age, etc...?

    Filler: Nicaraguan

    uh... anything else? different regions in Nicaragua taste different. how much ligero? what seco? any viso? how was it grown cured? what kind of seed?

    im sure very few people know this and im sure DE wants to keep it that way.


    i cant say i blame them .

    Sure. It seems like being too specific could hurt. I don't know anything about how a manufacturer acquires tobacco, but if they gave a little too much info what's to stop another company from buying essentially the same leaf from the grower next door and copying the cigar?
    LLA - Lancero Lovers of America
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    RhamlinRhamlin Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    webmost:
    dandin1:
    Bob Luken:
    How many different types of wrappers can be called "Natural"? Is it a term from the growing process? Is it in reference to color? If it is just in reference to color, what good is that? I SEE colors but I taste tobacco.

    The more I study this term,....... it's kinda' pissin' me off. WTF is wrong with me? :-/

    Nothing wrong with you, haha. The same thing happens to me. I look up a cigar to see what wrapper and it either says natural, not available, or just says a country. Might as well be a mystery. Pretty aggravating when you're a new guy trying to learn what you like/don't like.
    All very true. Ideally, you would like to know:
    1) What seed
    2) What country
    3) What process

    I wouldn't doubt that vagueness retards sales; especially when a thing is first introduced. I will certainly pay for a try much more readily if I know what's inside.

    Had a discussion here once with a fellow who did not think that even so much as a flavor description ought to be desirable. We were talking about a boutique shop in West Virginia. The more specs the better, I think.

    ?? Who was that sheep dip?! LOL. I do like a description more now but it still ticks me off when someone is describing flavors I've never heard of or wouldn't have a clue what it tasted like.Some of those guys on CA get carried away with describing a stick.
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    jarublajarubla Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bumping for a good read

    -Jay
    “There’ll be two dates on your tombstone and all your friends will read ’em but all that’s gonna matter is that little dash between ’em.” -Kevin Welch
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    Lee.mcglynnLee.mcglynn Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭
    What I only smoke naturals I mean acids they are great and I can taste the quality they are made by. Yum that really sugary taste it's only natural!
    Money can't buy taste
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