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Stop it...Enough is enough

jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 2015 in Non Cigar Related

Who ever came up with this should be tarred and feathered. When does the stupidity end?


One of the nation’s largest public school systems is preparing to include gender identity to its classroom curriculum, including lessons on sexual fluidity and spectrum – the idea that there’s no such thing as 100 percent boys or 100 percent girls.

Fairfax County Public Schools released a report recommending changes to their family life curriculum for grades 7 through 12. The changes, which critics call radical gender ideology, will be formally introduced next week.


I can not wait for the public reaction to this xxxxxxx nonsense.
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Comments

  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree. Have you ever heard the line "publish or perish"?  I think it's kinda the same with the teaching profession. It's as though they just have to come up with some new curriculum in order to make a name for themselves. 

    Not long ago, some clown in Southern California (I think) came up with the idiotic one called Ebonics. Remember that one?  There's just no end to that kind of silliness.....
  • ExpendableYouthExpendableYouth Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hopefully it makes people more tolerant of others. It's not like a class can change your sexuality or gender identity.
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Copied from JD's post (above)

    lessons on sexual fluidity and spectrum – the idea that there’s no such thing as 100 percent boys or 100 percent girls.

    The above copied text will be the fly in the ointment, i believe. By the sound of it, it still isn't acknowledging that homosexuality is genetically determined - not a conscious choice that people make. It's amazing to me the number of people who don't yet believe that. 

    I went back to school in the early 70's and took a few college courses. One was a course in psychology. Believe it or not, at that time they were still teaching that homosexuality was nothing more than arrested development - the mind not maturing normally through the stages of Id, ego, super-ego, etc. We've come a long way since then....
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jlmarta said:
    Copied from JD's post (above)

    lessons on sexual fluidity and spectrum – the idea that there’s no such thing as 100 percent boys or 100 percent girls.

    The above copied text will be the fly in the ointment, i believe. By the sound of it, it still isn't acknowledging that homosexuality is genetically determined - not a conscious choice that people make. It's amazing to me the number of people who don't yet believe that. 

    I went back to school in the early 70's and took a few college courses. One was a course in psychology. Believe it or not, at that time they were still teaching that homosexuality was nothing more than arrested development - the mind not maturing normally through the stages of Id, ego, super-ego, etc. We've come a long way since then....
    That is kind of the point @jlmarta. So why are these idiots trying to erase the line? I would be very surprised if gays did not find this equally absurd. I am waiting for the first poster to bring up nipples on all male species as the reason for this ridiculous attempt at "what?". I am not even sure this has anything to do with tolerance at all. I think some xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx transplant has gone completely over the edge and is trying to establish a new "I don't know". This is so totally bizarre I don't know what to call it. I am going to finish my bottle "Four Roses".
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It has baffled me for some time.  Of all of life's great mysteries, this one you were provided with an answer for, at birth.  Innie or Outie, there it is, question answered.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmmmm. Now, THAT'S profound.......
  • ExpendableYouthExpendableYouth Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It has baffled me for some time.  Of all of life's great mysteries, this one you were provided with an answer for, at birth.  Innie or Outie, there it is, question answered.
    Yeah, but gender and attraction are not the same thing. I do agree that transgendered is one aspect of the gay community that is hard to rationalize for me. It is an image they are attracted too or associate with, and it almost seems like an extreme version of fetishism to me, but I'm no expert.
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    That's the point of the class!  All cigars are not the same - nor do all cigars of the same brand in the same box taste the same.  Why do we expect all people to be the same or think alike or walk alike or to be sexually attracted to the same thing.  Life is beautiful when you are comfortable enough in your own skin to enjoy time with all others - even better when you can do it over cigars! 
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    It has baffled me for some time.  Of all of life's great mysteries, this one you were provided with an answer for, at birth.  Innie or Outie, there it is, question answered.
    Yeah, but gender and attraction are not the same thing. I do agree that transgendered is one aspect of the gay community that is hard to rationalize for me. It is an image they are attracted too or associate with, and it almost seems like an extreme version of fetishism to me, but I'm no expert.

    transgender not is defined by sexuality.  You can be a man living as a woman but attracted to women.  Transgender is how you project your inner self - not who you are sexually attracted to.  
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
    penn said:
    That's the point of the class!  All cigars are not the same - nor do all cigars of the same brand in the same box taste the same.  Why do we expect all people to be the same or think alike or walk alike or to be sexually attracted to the same thing.  Life is beautiful when you are comfortable enough in your own skin to enjoy time with all others - even better when you can do it over cigars! 
    All cigars are cigars, except the ones who want to live out their life as pipe tobacco and also demand that the rest of us play along with their notion of reality and teach our children that strange cigars pretending to be pipe tobacco is normal and not to be made fun of? Is that what you were going for when you compared people's gender identity to cigars? 
  • ExpendableYouthExpendableYouth Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    penn said:
    It has baffled me for some time.  Of all of life's great mysteries, this one you were provided with an answer for, at birth.  Innie or Outie, there it is, question answered.
    Yeah, but gender and attraction are not the same thing. I do agree that transgendered is one aspect of the gay community that is hard to rationalize for me. It is an image they are attracted too or associate with, and it almost seems like an extreme version of fetishism to me, but I'm no expert.

    transgender not is defined by sexuality.  You can be a man living as a woman but attracted to women.  Transgender is how you project your inner self - not who you are sexually attracted to.  
    That my point though. Transgendered is based on socially constructed ideas of femininity.
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    This whole "intelligentsia" discussion on gays and transgender people is a complete waste of time. What they are doing with this "curriculum" is so pathetically stupid it does not even warrant that discussion. It is completely as-sine on its face and does not make any sense no matter how you dress it up. It is with out merit, and has no business being a forced indoctrination in our schools. Lets at least wait  they graduate and go to a xxxxxxx indoctrination center of "higher Learning". But let the boys and girls go to a school of higher learning and prepare for life and a career/job. Men are men, women are women, boys are boys and girls are girls no matter what life style they choose. And if they want to change, more power to them.

    And get the notion of "tolerance" out of your head. It is a bad choice of words and I have never understood how it is used today.


  • ExpendableYouthExpendableYouth Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A person can choose to live their life anyway they want. If it makes you happy and is satisfying personally I don't have a problem with it. It isn't up to me or any one else to decide what is right, and I only made a personal observation based on a college course I took once and a few transgendered individuals I've met and had discussions with.
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The reaction from the folks in Fairfax, VA is already starting to build and from what I have been told (phone calls, I use to live there) it could very well get "lively".
  • jimmyv723jimmyv723 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭
    A person can choose to live their life anyway they want. If it makes you happy and is satisfying personally I don't have a problem with it. It isn't up to me or any one else to decide what is right, and I only made a personal observation based on a college course I took once and a few transgendered individuals I've met and had discussions with.

    Exactly how I feel. Far too many people are so worried about this or that when it doesn't even affect them other than it being something that they don't believe in. 

    Ken Light 3K MOW Badge - 8/14
    2015 Gang War - East Coast
    Enola Gay - Target #29
     
  • SecretSquirrelSecretSquirrel Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭
    jimmyv723 said:
    A person can choose to live their life anyway they want. If it makes you happy and is satisfying personally I don't have a problem with it. It isn't up to me or any one else to decide what is right, and I only made a personal observation based on a college course I took once and a few transgendered individuals I've met and had discussions with.

    Exactly how I feel. Far too many people are so worried about this or that when it doesn't even affect them other than it being something that they don't believe in. 


    +1
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    I believe in an America where everyone is free to pursue happiness; everyone is equal; and every life matters.  I have defended my beliefs and defended the freedoms of others as a member of the U.S. Army.  We are a nation that places the highest regard on freedom - freedom for all - not freedom solely for the ones that look like us or share our beliefs.   Soldiers (young Americans) of every generation have died defending the ideals and beliefs of freedom and I refuse to dishonor their memories by saying there is a group of Americans that do not deserve to have their freedom and right to pursue happiness.  That occurs because we either do not understand or do not agree with them.  Education is the only way to overcome not understanding.  Education is also the only way we can learn to respect even though we don't agree.  I respect the history of America but also look to the potential of a future America.  50 years ago in America (if you don't remember or are to young go watch a documentary of 1965 America) would any of us have ever said there would be a Black President of the United States?  That came about because of education - I accept the fact that there are still Americans that don't like that change.  Those Americans were the majority in 1965 but because we continue to grow and become a better America those Americans are in the minority.  The irony is my belief in America allows them the right to their beliefs and pursuit of happiness as well.  It is my experience that those Americans tend to live life very unhappy and don't get to realize they truly are blessed to live in America and tend to complain about how America use to be instead of being excited about what America can be.
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    Bob_Luken said:
    penn said:
    That's the point of the class!  All cigars are not the same - nor do all cigars of the same brand in the same box taste the same.  Why do we expect all people to be the same or think alike or walk alike or to be sexually attracted to the same thing.  Life is beautiful when you are comfortable enough in your own skin to enjoy time with all others - even better when you can do it over cigars! 
    All cigars are cigars, except the ones who want to live out their life as pipe tobacco and also demand that the rest of us play along with their notion of reality and teach our children that strange cigars pretending to be pipe tobacco is normal and not to be made fun of? Is that what you were going for when you compared people's gender identity to cigars? 

    It is funny that they have to DEMAND anything.  In my world and America, my God tells me everyone is worthy of respect.  I offer it to everyone - they don't need to demand it from me.  But I'm comfortable in my own skin, and had intellectual conversations and humorous conversations with people of all races, ethnicities and sexual persuasions.  I'm married with three kids and 1 grandkid and can hang out with whites, blacks, Hispanics, straights, gays, lesbian, or transgenders.  What I cannot hang out with are unintelligent homophobic condescending Americans with better than thou attitudes that think the old America is better than the now and future America.  That is more or less what I was trying to say...
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    penn said:
    I believe in an America where everyone is free to pursue happiness; everyone is equal; and every life matters.  I have defended my beliefs and defended the freedoms of others as a member of the U.S. Army.  
    Thank you for your service. 
  • ExpendableYouthExpendableYouth Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Penn I think your the one who disagreed with my earlier comment, and I would like to say there is a difference between acceptance and understanding. I never said I had a problem with transgendered people, just that there is a question regarding motive. Even the DSM-IV labels it as a mental disorder, and there is an ongoing debate on the subject. You can't create a clearer understanding of someone with out asking questions about it.
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    It has baffled me for some time.  Of all of life's great mysteries, this one you were provided with an answer for, at birth.  Innie or Outie, there it is, question answered.
    your physical sex and sexuality are not the same thing.  And more specifically your physical sex does not define your gender identity.  This is why we need classes to educate those who don't know or don't care to know.  And before you go ballistic on me - I didn't make it up.  I'm a republican married to professor at Wake Forest University and she has an anthropology course on gender.  I believed what you just said until I read for myself and had conversations with people who thought and lived differently. 
  • ExpendableYouthExpendableYouth Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    @penn You got us mixed up.
  • ExpendableYouthExpendableYouth Posts: 2,105 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    Or maybe you weren't responding to me. Although this has definetely been one of the better conversation lately.
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2015
    @Penn I think your the one who disagreed with my earlier comment, and I would like to say there is a difference between acceptance and understanding. I never said I had a problem with transgendered people, just that there is a question regarding motive. Even the DSM-IV labels it as a mental disorder, and there is an ongoing debate on the subject. You can't create a clearer understanding of someone with out asking questions about it.
    I don't think I was necessarily disagreeing.  I was just making the point that gender identity in general is not based or defined by sexuality.  Transgenders can be straight, gay or bi-sexual.  There are a lot of disorders in the DSM-IV and there may be people who do have a mental disorder, but there are also people who are genetically predisposed to question their gender identity. Not to convolute a complex issue; but, there are also transsexuals which are different than transgenders and I think without education people confuse the two into 1.  More importantly, because they're so different I think it is easy for people to dismiss how they feel. 
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    Or maybe you weren't responding to me. Although this has definetely been one of the better conversation lately.

    I think they are good conversations to have.  I was closed minded on many of these issues for a long time and it is mainly because of my wife for my enlightening. America was once the greatest country in the world.  If we want to regain that title, we need to have these and many other conversations similar to this.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭✭✭
    penn said:
    It has baffled me for some time.  Of all of life's great mysteries, this one you were provided with an answer for, at birth.  Innie or Outie, there it is, question answered.
    your physical sex and sexuality are not the same thing.  And more specifically your physical sex does not define your gender identity.  This is why we need classes to educate those who don't know or don't care to know.  And before you go ballistic on me - I didn't make it up.  I'm a republican married to professor at Wake Forest University and she has an anthropology course on gender.  I believed what you just said until I read for myself and had conversations with people who thought and lived differently. 
    You don't have to worry about me "going ballistic",  or stepping on freedom of choice.  If it is free choice we're discussing though, and if the attraction is something these people just "have", why the class?  Meanwhile, I just don't get it.  No problem with those people, just seems very un-natural to me. 

    Case in point, a young gay friend of mine, son of a friend of mine, was once saying;  "Sex sex sex, I don't see why everyone is so obsessed with Sex!"

    "Well," I replied, "That's because you're not doing it right."

    I then went on to ask him about his feminine mannerisms.  "If you're going to be a guy who likes guys, why not act like a guy?"

    Like I said, I just don't get it.

    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • raisindotraisindot Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭
    I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing topics such as gender identity and same-sex prefernce in a middle school environment. If it helps to turn some closed minds into more open minds--or at the very least keeps more young LGBTs from getting the crap kicked out of them by closed-minded bigots--that's a good thing. But I positioning this education from a POV like "There's no such thing as 100% male or female" is the program's undoing. If the presenters want to stay that transgenders and transsexuals are "psychologically male/female" trapped in "physiologically opposite" bodies, that's fine...with no implication that "aberration" is the source of this mixed identity.  But to say that there's a whole linear sexual spectrum and TGs/TSs are an area of that spectrum as "normal" as "regular" physical male and female seems a bit self-serving. I mean, TGs/TSs shouldn't be discriminated against or bullied and should have the same rights as any other group society in general considers beyond the mainstream. That's what the class should be teaching. Anything beyond that is polemics. 
  • pennpenn Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    penn said:
    It has baffled me for some time.  Of all of life's great mysteries, this one you were provided with an answer for, at birth.  Innie or Outie, there it is, question answered.
    your physical sex and sexuality are not the same thing.  And more specifically your physical sex does not define your gender identity.  This is why we need classes to educate those who don't know or don't care to know.  And before you go ballistic on me - I didn't make it up.  I'm a republican married to professor at Wake Forest University and she has an anthropology course on gender.  I believed what you just said until I read for myself and had conversations with people who thought and lived differently. 
    You don't have to worry about me "going ballistic",  or stepping on freedom of choice.  If it is free choice we're discussing though, and if the attraction is something these people just "have", why the class?  Meanwhile, I just don't get it.  No problem with those people, just seems very un-natural to me. 

    Case in point, a young gay friend of mine, son of a friend of mine, was once saying;  "Sex sex sex, I don't see why everyone is so obsessed with Sex!"

    "Well," I replied, "That's because you're not doing it right."

    I then went on to ask him about his feminine mannerisms.  "If you're going to be a guy who likes guys, why not act like a guy?"

    Like I said, I just don't get it.


    I totally respect that - and from my perspective that's the point of the class.  To educate people so they do get it.  First things first - I always thought homosexuality was a choice people made.  There may be some who choose that but for most they are genetically predisposed to it.  Again, it was after reading most of the materials my wife uses in her course that started me really thinking about this and you may think I'm being funny when I say this but I'm being totally serious.  What convinced me was the fact that there are homosexual animals in the wild and a video of two male lions allowed me to understand and accept it. 

    There are so many differences that I think there is a move to add more letters to the LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender) moniker which has been around since the early 90s.  They want it to be LGBTQIA to include queers, intersex (people physically born with both male and female parts, and asexual (people with no physical attraction to either men or women). 

    There are gay men attracted to alpha gay men and gay men attracted to feminine gay men and straight men attracted to dominating women and straight men attracted to passive women and so and so on.  The point of the class is to identify all the difference so you can understand it.  Understanding is the first step to respecting and accepting.  Our country is moving forward...I teach my kids 1 really important lesson -- 'If your not moving forward you are falling behind because you are being passed by those who are moving forward'.  I'm not condoning or condemning anyone and their opinion.  I am simply trying to highlight how my wife changed my mind and it didn't happen with one conversation.  "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - there was a time when a majority of Americans disregarded Black Americans because they were genetically predisposed to having a different skin color.  We became a better and more inclusive America and that march forward is continuing.

  • Lee.mcglynnLee.mcglynn Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭
    So the argument is whether or not to teach boys and girls about the differences of each other?? Honestly if this was not about sexuality and about a different matter it would be a totally different conversation. Not to mention it's being done in VA? That's like putting the NY tobacco tax in VA see what happens! And it's like going to San Fran and telling all the people they are going to burn in hell for the sins of the "choice" they made. Really I think teaching people tolerance and understanding is a good thing. I grew up in a all white neighborhood and I was the only Asian kid...needless to say I was called many a different name and was always harassed by the police. Finally Asians started moving into the area and well nothing is said anymore. Yeah that's a race thing but like race you don't choose who you are you just have to deal with it and hope that people understand that. Being gay is not a choice IMO and really gay people have no affect on how I live my life. So all in all why should anyone care how others feel about themselves
    Money can't buy taste
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
    penn said:
    Bob_Luken said:
    penn said:
    That's the point of the class!  All cigars are not the same - nor do all cigars of the same brand in the same box taste the same.  Why do we expect all people to be the same or think alike or walk alike or to be sexually attracted to the same thing.  Life is beautiful when you are comfortable enough in your own skin to enjoy time with all others - even better when you can do it over cigars! 
    All cigars are cigars, except the ones who want to live out their life as pipe tobacco and also demand that the rest of us play along with their notion of reality and teach our children that strange cigars pretending to be pipe tobacco is normal and not to be made fun of? Is that what you were going for when you compared people's gender identity to cigars? 

    It is funny that they have to DEMAND anything.  In my world and America, my God tells me everyone is worthy of respect.  I offer it to everyone - they don't need to demand it from me.  But I'm comfortable in my own skin, and had intellectual conversations and humorous conversations with people of all races, ethnicities and sexual persuasions.  I'm married with three kids and 1 grandkid and can hang out with whites, blacks, Hispanics, straights, gays, lesbian, or transgenders.  What I cannot hang out with are unintelligent homophobic condescending Americans with better than thou attitudes that think the old America is better than the now and future America.  That is more or less what I was trying to say...

    I hope you don't think of me as one of the unintelligent, homophobic, condescending, Americans you're referring to. I'll assume you're just generalizing in broader terms because hey, I think of myself as a nice guy too. I align myself with the same values you claim. I believe everybody deserves tolerance and for their rights to be respected and to be treated kindly.  

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