Habano Wrapper?

Can somebody explain a habano wrapper to me and the difference between it an a maduro wrapper?

Thanks!

Matt

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Comments

  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,580 ✭✭✭
    a "habano" wrapper is just a cuban seed wrapper that is fermented in the traditional cuban style. it can be grown anywhere.

    a "maduro" wrapper has a very different fermentation process. the wrapper leaves are baled together very tightly. this tight form of fermentation creates heat in the center. to keep the heat even the bales are often rotated in upon themselves. the heat "cooks" the tobacco and brings out the dark flavor, a sweeter profile and usually makes the flavor smoother and more mild. this too can be grown anywhere but some leaves lend themselves better to the maduro process.
    Connecticut broad-leaf comes to mind.
  • Most of the maduro wrappers I've seen are connecticut broad leaf. From the way I understand it the process to make a maduro wrapper puts a lot of strain on the leaf and many varieties just come apart. Maduro wrappers have a reputation for being strong cigars, despite the fact that the flavor profile is usually smooth and mild. A lot of brands actually pander to this stereotype, but you can find mild cigars with maduro wrappers as well.
  • You guys are smart!
  • I actually just read an article on the myths of maduro wrappers in cigar magazine. it basically debunks the idea that maduros are strong. And they go into why people think that. Something about a shortage or maduro tobacco and how companies would take shortcuts on how they made the tobacco maduro including painting in some manner.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,580 ✭✭✭
    rwheelwright:
    I actually just read an article on the myths of maduro wrappers in cigar magazine. it basically debunks the idea that maduros are strong.
    or you just read my "blending 101" article in my signature ...
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,152
    rwheelwright:
    I actually just read an article on the myths of maduro wrappers in cigar magazine. it basically debunks the idea that maduros are strong. And they go into why people think that. Something about a shortage or maduro tobacco and how companies would take shortcuts on how they made the tobacco maduro including painting in some manner.
    There are a lot of misconceptions about maduros and the fact that the are stronger is a misconception most are in fact a medium bodied cigar. Also it is very common practice to "dye" a maduro leaf to get it darker. The Partagas black is an excellent example.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,580 ✭✭✭
    madurofan:
    rwheelwright:
    I actually just read an article on the myths of maduro wrappers in cigar magazine. it basically debunks the idea that maduros are strong. And they go into why people think that. Something about a shortage or maduro tobacco and how companies would take shortcuts on how they made the tobacco maduro including painting in some manner.
    There are a lot of misconceptions about maduros and the fact that the are stronger is a misconception most are in fact a medium bodied cigar. Also it is very common practice to "dye" a maduro leaf to get it darker. The Partagas black is an excellent example.
    im not sure i would put the partagas black in the same category as some of the boom cigar makers though...
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,152
    kuzi16:
    madurofan:
    rwheelwright:
    I actually just read an article on the myths of maduro wrappers in cigar magazine. it basically debunks the idea that maduros are strong. And they go into why people think that. Something about a shortage or maduro tobacco and how companies would take shortcuts on how they made the tobacco maduro including painting in some manner.
    There are a lot of misconceptions about maduros and the fact that the are stronger is a misconception most are in fact a medium bodied cigar. Also it is very common practice to "dye" a maduro leaf to get it darker. The Partagas black is an excellent example.
    im not sure i would put the partagas black in the same category as some of the boom cigar makers though...
    Not saying its in the same category as the now defunct boomers BUT it is a well-known and not so highly thought of fact that General dyes their maduros, especially the Black.
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    Hmph. That pleases me not. I guess I'll have to start paying more attention to which brands come from which companies. I don't smoke a lot of maduros, but still.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,152
    Actually Urbi MOST maduros are dyed from what I've been told. I don't know how you tell but I do know that the General Rep told me all General's are and he claimed that all Fuente's were as well.
  • So why dye the wrapper? For eye candy?
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    madurofan:
    Actually Urbi MOST maduros are dyed from what I've been told. I don't know how you tell but I do know that the General Rep told me all General's are and he claimed that all Fuente's were as well.
    Double hmph.
  • LukoLuko Posts: 2,004
    I did not know that, Maddy. I wanna get in on that hmph.
  • j0z3rj0z3r Posts: 9,403
    madurofan:
    Actually Urbi MOST maduros are dyed from what I've been told. I don't know how you tell but I do know that the General Rep told me all General's are and he claimed that all Fuente's were as well.
    From what I've read, a good deal of maduros are cooked, well steamed actually, to create a dark and even coloring...kinda like cutting the corners of the natural maduro process, presumably for quantity over quality. Usually a dyed maduro is detectable pretty easily as it will leave a dye residue on the lips and sometimes fingers.
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    Luko:
    I did not know that, Maddy. I wanna get in on that hmph.
    All hmphers welcome.
  • dutyjedutyje Posts: 2,263
    j0z3r:
    Usually a dyed maduro is detectable pretty easily as it will leave a dye residue on the lips and sometimes fingers.
    Like the Nestor Reserve Maduro
  • kaspera79kaspera79 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭
    j0z3r:
    madurofan:
    Actually Urbi MOST maduros are dyed from what I've been told. I don't know how you tell but I do know that the General Rep told me all General's are and he claimed that all Fuente's were as well.
    From what I've read, a good deal of maduros are cooked, well steamed actually, to create a dark and even coloring...kinda like cutting the corners of the natural maduro process, presumably for quantity over quality. Usually a dyed maduro is detectable pretty easily as it will leave a dye residue on the lips and sometimes fingers.
    I've found the worst offenders of dye residue on fingers and lips are the corojo wrapper cigars. I can't remember the name, but one in particular was infused with a red wine, this was a real stainer. Fairly decent cigar but a bit of a novelity.
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    dutyje:
    j0z3r:
    Usually a dyed maduro is detectable pretty easily as it will leave a dye residue on the lips and sometimes fingers.
    Like the Nestor Reserve Maduro
    Hm. I hadn't noticed that happening with that cigar, but maybe I just didn't notice it.
  • phobicsquirrel:
    You guys are smart!
    I'm a bit OCD when it comes to researching things I'm interested in. The cigar.com newsletter, cigarcyclopedia.com and Kuzi's guides all have a lot of good info.
  • To reply about all the maduro and such questions...

    Maduro leaf can be made in many ways as mentioned above. I would have to say that using a Connecticut leaf would require a dye, or coloring applied to the leaf, or steamed into it, since that leaf is almost impossible to darken much at all. I make cigars and this is a breed I never could get to become maduro.

    Any darker the leaf already is, like a sun grown EC Sumatra etc... allows for easier maduro production. Some of the fermentation process mentioned above can help a lot. Hot boxes, humidity, steaming, etc... this all helps. Since Habano is a dark red, Sumatra can vary but these are all fairly easy to make into a Maduro. I will experiment next year making some Criollo breed into a Maduro. This should be the first one (at least in this country).

    Watch out for a lot of brands in US who paint color on the cigar, and dye the leaf. (they will insist it is not true but they lie)

    eyecoin
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,580 ✭✭✭
    eyecoin:
    I make cigars and this is a breed I never could get to become maduro.
    who do you make cigars for?


    and

    maduro is a process not a color. If they go through the process they are maduro regardless of color.

    reference:
    "Maduro is the Spanish term for ripe; meaning fully developed. A Maduro cigar is characterized by its dark wrapper, typically black or close to it. The color of the leaf is not as important as the process which it goes through. Leaves destined for Maduro wrappers are subjected to a longer and/or more intense (higher temperature) fermentation. The specific times and temperatures will vary from one cigar maker to another..."

    from here

  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    Well, leaving aside maduro for a second, I can now proclaim I have a favorite habano cigar: the La Cuna Bin. 85 habano. If you haven't tried these, do yourself a favor.
  • Bad AndyBad Andy Posts: 848
    j0z3r:
    madurofan:
    Actually Urbi MOST maduros are dyed from what I've been told. I don't know how you tell but I do know that the General Rep told me all General's are and he claimed that all Fuente's were as well.
    From what I've read, a good deal of maduros are cooked, well steamed actually, to create a dark and even coloring...kinda like cutting the corners of the natural maduro process, presumably for quantity over quality. Usually a dyed maduro is detectable pretty easily as it will leave a dye residue on the lips and sometimes fingers.
    This is the reason for the limited availability of the Oliva V maduro. And with any Oliva maduro, they do theirs the correct way. The rep said a lot of companies 'cook' the leaves. A naturally aged/fermented maduro has uneven discoloration.
  • dutyjedutyje Posts: 2,263
    The way I understand it, the leaves are bundled tightly together and allowed to ferment in their own residual heat. The bundle is rotated at intervals to ensure an even cooking of the leaves. Artificial heat sources are sometimes used. I believe that the Connecticut Broadleaf is the most-used leaf for a maduro because it is durable and will stand up well enough during the process to be used as a wrapper leaf. Some "maduro" leaves are dyed, and I wouldn't be surprised if some sweetness were added to these blackened leaves (like the cavendish process used for pipe tobacco, which is essentially the same thing).

    That whole preceding paragraph should be taken lightly, as it's all stuff I've either read or heard, but will not for the life of me be able to quickly produce a truly reliable source for the info. On a side note (and this next stuff is straight out of my ass), I've thought a lot recently about this business of "a darker cigar is usually a stronger cigar" ... and people on here saying that a maduro leaf should actually be a milder cigar since it is aged longer. This is something with which I disagree. While the maduro leaf is "older" as measured from the time it is harvested to the time it is used in the making of a cigar, it goes through a longer and more thorough fermentation process. This fermentation process is not the same as plain "aging," and would result in a more full-bodied smoke.

    Just throwing all that out there. Have at it.
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    Anarchist.
  • j0z3rj0z3r Posts: 9,403
    An interesting thought Duty...to counter your idea, I would suggest that a maduro leaf is milder not due to aging, but because of the extra fermentation that brings out more natural sugars and sweetness in the leaf. If indeed it is not milder, then at the very least it is perceived as milder due to its higher sugar content.
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947
    hhmmm......
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,580 ✭✭✭
    j0z3r:
    An interesting thought Duty...to counter your idea, I would suggest that a maduro leaf is milder not due to aging, but because of the extra fermentation that brings out more natural sugars and sweetness in the leaf. If indeed it is not milder, then at the very least it is perceived as milder due to its higher sugar content.
    kind of...

    fementation breaks down some of the oils that flavor cigars. less essential oil, less flavor.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,152
    j0z3r:
    An interesting thought Duty...to counter your idea, I would suggest that a maduro leaf is milder not due to aging, but because of the extra fermentation that brings out more natural sugars and sweetness in the leaf. If indeed it is not milder, then at the very least it is perceived as milder due to its higher sugar content.
    Bingo.
  • Great point about the dyeing of leaf to "make" maduro.  Reminds me of why Padron's maduro wrappers stand-out as being so excellent--they are reportedly a truly natural maduro.  BTW, I usually prefer the natural wrapper Padrons to their maduros, but I love the FR 45 and 80 Years w/maduro.  Cheers!
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