you can't make this stuff up

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

@Rdp77 said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@ShawnOL said:
We need to stop coddling these mentally ill people and start treating their illness, not legitimizing their insanity. This dude wants to be a woman but can't be because he was born a man. People treated him differently, probably very badly, instead of getting him the help he needed as a kid. It doesn't excuse his murder spree. This mentally ill man still took the lives of others instead of acknowledging he has a mental problem and committing himself.

I'd love to see republicans take ownership of the mental health problems these shooters have, and try to come up with real solutions instead of just saying it's a problem.

I don’t understand this. Why republicans? Why not Americans?

2 reasons. One is that many democrats say the only way to stop school shootings is to ban guns. I don't think that's a good solution for the same reason that banning drugs isn't a good solution to the drug problem. I also think kids need to stop dying in class, obviously, and staying with the status quo isn't ok with me. Everyone on both aisles agrees that mental health is part of the problem. Ok, cool, how do we fix that? That leads to reason 2, democrats would screw it up. If it's a democratic bill with a few token republicans involved, we'll just get the affordable care act all over again but for mental health. If republicans take the lead and create some practical solutions, it's going to pass 90%-10% in congress, and will ideally mean there's less grandstanding by the states in terms of implementing whatever is passed.

They 'all' have not learned to "make hard" targets of schools and other educational institutional buildings. Until then, expect " Soft Targets" to be.....Targets.

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

I don't really know what you want me to say here. I'm ok with this idea in a general sense, but I don't really think it would stop anyone either.

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

I don't really know what you want me to say here. I'm ok with this idea in a general sense, but I don't really think it would stop anyone either.

I want you to bring a solution to the table.

@Stubble said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

I don't really know what you want me to say here. I'm ok with this idea in a general sense, but I don't really think it would stop anyone either.

I want you to bring a solution to the table.

Harden the schools. Arm the teachers who want to be armed. More therapists in schools with free counseling for any kid who wants it. Mandatory after school activities for kids to learn social skills away from their phones (things like sports, band, theater, chess, debate, whatever, but you have to do one of them). Much more extreme punishments for bullying, such as spending a weekend in Juvenile detention. Mandatory therapy as a condition of being prescribed mental health medicine such as anti depressants or hormone treatments (which is not the case now).

The big one that I fight internally about is a mandatory media blackout of anything the shooter says or advocates for. It's a direct violation of the first amendment, which I oppose, but I don't see another way to get the shooters to stop doing it, since most of them are friendless loners who are doing the shooting in order to get their message out. If no message gets out, will it continue? Is it worth violating the most important part of the constitution? I can't decide on that part.

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

I don't really know what you want me to say here. I'm ok with this idea in a general sense, but I don't really think it would stop anyone either.

I want you to bring a solution to the table.

Harden the schools. Arm the teachers who want to be armed. More therapists in schools with free counseling for any kid who wants it. Mandatory after school activities for kids to learn social skills away from their phones (things like sports, band, theater, chess, debate, whatever, but you have to do one of them). Much more extreme punishments for bullying, such as spending a weekend in Juvenile detention. Mandatory therapy as a condition of being prescribed mental health medicine such as anti depressants or hormone treatments (which is not the case now).

The big one that I fight internally about is a mandatory media blackout of anything the shooter says or advocates for. It's a direct violation of the first amendment, which I oppose, but I don't see another way to get the shooters to stop doing it, since most of them are friendless loners who are doing the shooting in order to get their message out. If no message gets out, will it continue? Is it worth violating the most important part of the constitution? I can't decide on that part.

How can you, alone, decide the most imortant side of the constitution?

@Stubble said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

I don't really know what you want me to say here. I'm ok with this idea in a general sense, but I don't really think it would stop anyone either.

I want you to bring a solution to the table.

Harden the schools. Arm the teachers who want to be armed. More therapists in schools with free counseling for any kid who wants it. Mandatory after school activities for kids to learn social skills away from their phones (things like sports, band, theater, chess, debate, whatever, but you have to do one of them). Much more extreme punishments for bullying, such as spending a weekend in Juvenile detention. Mandatory therapy as a condition of being prescribed mental health medicine such as anti depressants or hormone treatments (which is not the case now).

The big one that I fight internally about is a mandatory media blackout of anything the shooter says or advocates for. It's a direct violation of the first amendment, which I oppose, but I don't see another way to get the shooters to stop doing it, since most of them are friendless loners who are doing the shooting in order to get their message out. If no message gets out, will it continue? Is it worth violating the most important part of the constitution? I can't decide on that part.

How can you, alone, decide the most imortant side of the constitution?

True, my bad. It's what I personally believe is the most important part.

ShawnOL

Hardening the schools should definitely be the first step. Make them undesirable targets. Then go for treating the mentally ill.

Rdp77

@CalvinAndHobo just to clarify, when I said “why not Americans” I didn’t mean it as both sides of Congress. Local governments can control a lot more than most people realize. The communities need to step up and take control of their own. In the county I live in there is an armed deputy at every school. It’s that way because the people want their children safe and not because they waited for a government to say they could.

Amos_Umwhat

I just read one of the stories about all this on Yahoo this morning. I also read about 50+ comments that followed.

It is sad, to me, that the true depth and impact of the tragedy, the loss of life and the families grief, is so quickly lost in the maelstrom of agendas trying to get their usually well-worn messages out in the public eye, yet again.

There were many blaming leftist weirdos, right wing gun nuts, long arguments regarding the actual gender vs. claimed gender vs mental health issues, the parents roles, on and on. It's the fault of Christian theology, it's school bullying, it's the hormones.

There may be something to that last one. I guess this is what it would look like if men had PMS?

I noticed on the local news this morning that they were telling the story about how quickly signs went up in yards demanding new gun laws, or abolition of gun ownership, reportedly demonstrating how quickly people responded to "the tragedy". I'm guessing that local groups were already prepared for "the next tragedy" after Uvalde.

The gender argument got downright confusing. Most insisting the shooter was born male and in the process of transgendering to female, but others insisting that he-she-it was born female and identified as a male. However, was that "born female in his head"? In other words, XY? I don't know, because I don't know, but it may have just been someone pushing their own agenda.

Who cares? What we know is that he-she-it is a murderer.

And then I start thinking about the stupidity of the expression "gender that was assigned at birth". As if gender was assigned at birth. Gender occurs when 23 chromosomes from one parent are joined with 23 from the other parent and voila! Gender occurs!... the doctor doesn't reach into a box of genitalia and announce "I'm makin' this one a boy!"

Calls for better mental health care, good call, devolve into the same kind of arguments. For the record, my position is this. If you could imagine mental health care as a human being, the Reagan administration sawed off its arms and legs, and the Affordable Care Act turned down the feeding and IV fluids.

And very quickly, the tragedy is consumed by the machinations of agenda in a narcissistic society that simultaneously creates and abhors the situation. The media will attempt to justify the lunatics actions, as if there could be any justification. Congress will posture and huff and blow, the President will squint into the camera. People will express outrage and sympathy for awhile. Somewhere another lunatic will see all the attention and begin planning on how to attract that same spotlight for themself.

And the family and friends of 6 people will cry themselves to sleep.

Sometimes I can hardly stand living in this world.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7zaq9/qanon-huggies-conspiracy

lol,

QAnon’s Newest Target Is Huggies Diapers for Some Reason
A conspiracy theory about the diapers racked up millions of views, going viral so quickly that Huggies was forced to publicly denounce it.

First_Warrior

Who is making money off this mess?

Many sites have ads. If you can get a million people to go to one and they make a couple of cents per view.... The more outrageous the better.

Amos_Umwhat

@CalvinAndHobo said:

The big one that I fight internally about is a mandatory media blackout of anything the shooter says or advocates for. It's a direct violation of the first amendment, which I oppose, but I don't see another way to get the shooters to stop doing it, since most of them are friendless loners who are doing the shooting in order to get their message out. If no message gets out, will it continue? Is it worth violating the most important part of the constitution? I can't decide on that part.

I feel you on that one. But there's also a limit to every freedom. A person's right to speech does not obligate the media to publish said speech. Let her/him pay a publicist. Also, the publics right to know doesn't mandate the press to broadcast the information. If someone wants to know, or thinks they "need" to know, carry your happyass on down to the courthouse and read the transcripts at the trial, should there be one, or use FOIA to access the police files. That way no ones rights are infringed.

I believe that if name, age, sex, and anything identifying the shooter is blanked out, it will stop most. These shooters are whackadoodles looking to have their name be heard, to be someone. No name nothing to identify them. If they are not killed during the act, public hanging within 24hrs on the six o'clock news wearing a hood so nobody knows who or what they are will put an end to it.
I am a firm supporter and defender of our Constitution and it's Amendments, but I can think of no other way

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65110030

here we go:

Key figures in artificial intelligence want training of powerful AI systems to be suspended amid fears of a threat to humanity.

They have signed an open letter warning of potential risks, and say the race to develop AI systems is out of control.

Twitter chief Elon Musk is among those who want training of AIs above a certain capacity to be halted for at least six months.

Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak and some researchers at DeepMind also signed.

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

I don't really know what you want me to say here. I'm ok with this idea in a general sense, but I don't really think it would stop anyone either.

I want you to bring a solution to the table.

Harden the schools. Arm the teachers who want to be armed. More therapists in schools with free counseling for any kid who wants it. Mandatory after school activities for kids to learn social skills away from their phones (things like sports, band, theater, chess, debate, whatever, but you have to do one of them). Much more extreme punishments for bullying, such as spending a weekend in Juvenile detention. Mandatory therapy as a condition of being prescribed mental health medicine such as anti depressants or hormone treatments (which is not the case now).

Great ideas. How do we pay for these things? Who is buying the blast doors and metal detectors? Who is buying these teachers guns and giving them training? How are you going to convince the far and away vast majority of teachers who don't want to carry firearms to do so? Who is responsible when a kid disarms a teacher and blows away the teacher and six students? Who is paying for the juvie weekend stays? For the therapists and counselors? What's the negative consequence of keeping these bullies with absentee parents out of the school environment during suspensions a d expulsions? Especially if their home lives are compete garbage?

Also interested in how one goes about getting prescription medications without seeing someone who can prescribe them...not saying you're wrong, just maybe don't understand your phrasing there.

https://youtu.be/iH7ufyRTH4U

Great timing on this thread. My daughter's school was caught up in a threat today. No active shooter in this case, just a kid who told another kid he had a gun. Here's the scene:

Look at the environment at about 50 seconds into the video. That is not the environment in which a teacher should have a gun. That is not an environment in which a teacher with a gun would make a positive impact. You need PROFESSIONALS in this situation, not some old lady who is forced to take a training seminar over the summer.

And if you're interested, follow the user "crazy clips" on Twitter. They have no less than a half dozen clips per week showing students and teachers in full scale brawls. Most of the teachers are fat ladies wearing the knee length sweaters over stretch pants. That's the teacher you are trying to arm. I have no scientific data to prove it, but I would hypothesize that there would be more shootings if you arm these people, not fewer. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong because the first one would be disaster.

@VegasFrank said:
Great timing on this thread. My daughter's school was caught up in a threat today. No active shooter in this case, just a kid who told another kid he had a gun. Here's the scene:

https://youtu.be/iH7ufyRTH4U

Look at the environment at about 50 seconds into the video. That is not the environment in which a teacher should have a gun. That is not an environment in which a teacher with a gun would make a positive impact. You need PROFESSIONALS in this situation, not some old lady who is forced to take a training seminar over the summer.

And I can't even describe the helpless feeling I had while racing home from work to try to get there....and do nothing while I waited. I can't tell you the despair I had watching my daughter's text come through saying HELP IM SCARED and the depression I had watching my wife thumb out "I LOVE YOU" through tears and sobbing.

I just wanted to die in that moment. And I can't see how strapping blue haired teachers solves anything.

https://youtu.be/Eya_k4P-iEo

One more for you. A supreme court justice appointed by a republican:

I lived near Stoneman Douglas before, during and after the shooting there. Many ideas were put out on how to stop a person with evil intentions from getting to the kids. Every idea was turned down. Locked doors, metal detectors NO the kids will feel like they are in jail. Clear back packs NO invasion of privacy.
The federal government gives away hundreds of billions of dollars. Use one or two of them and hardon schools. Hire retired police/military as school security. Arm teachers? Only those that desire and are able to pass proper training. Just like àir Marshalls, only those in charge know who.

The girl in Nashville shot out the glass doors ducked through two and nobody attempted to stop her except maybe an unarmed teacher or custodian.
Harden and control access, armed security at entrances is I believe what is needed. Along with making the shooter invisible except called the killer, no name nothing.

@VegasFrank said:
One more for you. A supreme court justice appointed by a republican:

https://youtu.be/Eya_k4P-iEo

Justice Berger has been dead for almost three decades. Not much effect on today

@Diver43 said:

@VegasFrank said:
One more for you. A supreme court justice appointed by a republican:

https://youtu.be/Eya_k4P-iEo

Justice Berger has been dead for almost three decades. Not much effect on today

But as a constitutional lawyer, his opinion on the constitution remains relevant today, especially if one thinks that the bill of rights is relevant today, since it was written 200 years before this clip was aired 😉

@VegasFrank said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@CalvinAndHobo said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:

@Stubble said:
Gun Control against the mentally ill is the only answer. Start with the trans movement.

Just in case you missed it....

Just in case you're not paying attention...

I don't really know what you want me to say here. I'm ok with this idea in a general sense, but I don't really think it would stop anyone either.

I want you to bring a solution to the table.

Harden the schools. Arm the teachers who want to be armed. More therapists in schools with free counseling for any kid who wants it. Mandatory after school activities for kids to learn social skills away from their phones (things like sports, band, theater, chess, debate, whatever, but you have to do one of them). Much more extreme punishments for bullying, such as spending a weekend in Juvenile detention. Mandatory therapy as a condition of being prescribed mental health medicine such as anti depressants or hormone treatments (which is not the case now).

Great ideas. How do we pay for these things? Who is buying the blast doors and metal detectors? Who is buying these teachers guns and giving them training? How are you going to convince the far and away vast majority of teachers who don't want to carry firearms to do so? Who is responsible when a kid disarms a teacher and blows away the teacher and six students? Who is paying for the juvie weekend stays? For the therapists and counselors? What's the negative consequence of keeping these bullies with absentee parents out of the school environment during suspensions a d expulsions? Especially if their home lives are compete garbage?

Also interested in how one goes about getting prescription medications without seeing someone who can prescribe them...not saying you're wrong, just maybe don't understand your phrasing there.

So all my answers are just my opinion, which probably isn't what the country would agree to, and obviously they're not going to get implemented:

Regarding all the money questions, I would rather stop spending money on a bloated military budget and foreign aid budget, and spend that money on these things. If I have to choose between paying more taxes or not having those things, I'll pay them, because it takes a village to raise a child, and the children in my village are more important to me than the children in another country. Unapologetically.

No teacher would be required to carry a gun, they'd just be allowed to via my tax dollars, along with their shooting range time, gun safety training, and in-classroom gun safes where they'd be kept.

Bullying someone is not something that has to happen as a result of having bad or non existent parents. If you're repeatedly bullying people, it's time to get a job at Walmart where you're not harming other kids, just as it already is if you keep sexually assaulting the girls in your class.

My primary care doctor can prescribe me mood altering drugs without making me see a therapist, should I want them. I can also do a video conference with a doctor in another country who can prescribe them after talking to me for five minutes. I don't think that should be allowed.

Just to reiterate though, I'm not an expert. I'm not a teacher, therapist or police officer. This is my opinion about what I think would help. Should I magically become dictator of the country, I wouldn't just start implementing any of this without talking to actual experts.

Also, I'm very sorry that happened @VegasFrank and I'm glad everyone is ok. I didn't see your other posts until I clicked send on that reply. It's a scary world we're living in, and I don't have much faith in anyone to do anything to make it better. Like I said above, all I have are my opinions about things that I believe would help. If it turns out that they wouldn't, then I hope they don't get used. All I want is for this to stop somehow, or at least become less frequent, same as you.

@VegasFrank said:

@Diver43 said:

@VegasFrank said:
One more for you. A supreme court justice appointed by a republican:

https://youtu.be/Eya_k4P-iEo

Justice Berger has been dead for almost three decades. Not much effect on today

But as a constitutional lawyer, his opinion on the constitution remains relevant today, especially if one thinks that the bill of rights is relevant today, since it was written 200 years before this clip was aired 😉

You are correct

What do you think of the ideas rejected by Stoneman Douglas? Would some work/help?