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Litto Gomez / LFD patents the chisel vitola.

denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
in General Discussion
Title says it all. There is an article on Cigar Afficionado's website and in their newsletter. Basically the patent is retroactive back to 2003. Wonder what will come of the chisels ccom has in inventory?

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    denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/16514
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    interesting.

    i wonder what that means for the industry.
    can ANY new size be patented ?
    its only good to 2016... i wonder if there will be more after that.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    Knoxca1Knoxca1 Posts: 148 ✭✭
    dennisking:
    Title says it all. There is an article on Cigar Afficionado's website and in their newsletter. Basically the patent is retroactive back to 2003. Wonder what will come of the chisels ccom has in inventory?
    Or the ones they have already sold. Will they have to pay a fee to the patent holder for the cigars they already sold?
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    0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So will they patent the Culebra too then?
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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    denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    I enjoy the chisel vitola. It is my first choice when buying an LG product almost everytime. I'm worried about Ccom and those involved with the chisel they have produced. I also have a problem with patenting a vitola. Its a shape. Is Fuente going to patent the Hemingway line????
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    HaybletHayblet Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭
    dennisking:
    I enjoy the chisel vitola. It is my first choice when buying an LG product almost everytime. I'm worried about Ccom and those involved with the chisel they have produced. I also have a problem with patenting a vitola. Its a shape. Is Fuente going to patent the Hemingway line????
    I would think they would have to patent the Opus line as well if that is going to be the case. Just sayin.
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    rzamanrzaman Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭
    I am not sure about the long term impact but my initial understanding is - from now on, LDF own this shape until 2016. Under 15 U.S.C. 1127 code trademark is a word, symbol, phrase identify a manufacturer or seller's products from another. For example, CocaCola bottle shape identify a unique trademark features. The reason I remember the USC code because recently we had an issue with a local company logo vs an American trademark logo. It will be interesting to follow up this issue.
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    blurrblurr Posts: 962 ✭✭
    Hmm this will be interesting. Almost forgot I have a full 12ct box of MoW Side Projects 52c in chisel shape. Hope these continue. I would imagine it will be something as simple as other manufacturers just can't call it "chisel" shape. Kinda silly in my opinion that a shape can be patented, but what happens in the future will be interesting.
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    docbp87docbp87 Posts: 3,521 ✭
    0patience:
    So will they patent the Culebra too then?

    dennisking:
    I'm worried about Ccom and those involved with the chisel they have produced. I also have a problem with patenting a vitola. Its a shape. Is Fuente going to patent the Hemingway line????
    The difference is that Litto can prove (an obviously has proven) that he is the inventor of the chisel vitola, where the other shapes you guys mention have been around for an eternity, and are sort of like the "public domain" as cigars go. Fuente didn't invent the vitolas in the Hemingway line, they just made them popular again after decades of disuse.
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    RhamlinRhamlin Posts: 8,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is interesting, I'd love to hear Alex's take on this though I've not had any chisel tips yet I know they have developed quite a following.
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    Ken_LightKen_Light Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭
    What happened to all the talk of this being an art? Plenty of musicians over the years have innovated a technique, not one of them patented it. Eddie Van Halen didn't patent two-hand tapping. And Lito he said he's tried to do this 3 or 4 times? Well, now we know who the Gene Simmons of the cigar world is.
    ^Troll: DO NOT FEED.
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    catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭
    I think it will bear little impact. Honestly, I could care less about chisels and have yet to have one that blew me away. I'm with ken, and I think the cigar world is probably thinking...meh
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    catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭
    My guess is it won't affect inventory either, just production going forward.
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    Ken Light:
    What happened to all the talk of this being an art? Plenty of musicians over the years have innovated a technique, not one of them patented it. Eddie Van Halen didn't patent two-hand tapping. And Lito he said he's tried to do this 3 or 4 times? Well, now we know who the Gene Simmons of the cigar world is.
    ive seen this said about the music industry also:
    if you wanna get into the Cigar business because it is a good business then you are in it for the wrong reasons. it is an art. If you want to get into the Cigar world because of the artistry of it, you are in it for the wrong reasons. it is a business.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    VulchorVulchor Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
    Ken Light:
    What happened to all the talk of this being an art? Plenty of musicians over the years have innovated a technique, not one of them patented it. Eddie Van Halen didn't patent two-hand tapping. And Lito he said he's tried to do this 3 or 4 times? Well, now we know who the Gene Simmons of the cigar world is.
    +1 brother......money, economics, industry share, maximizing profit------all in the world we like to think of as peaceful Central Amaericans enjoying their craft.
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Ken Light:
    What happened to all the talk of this being an art? Plenty of musicians over the years have innovated a technique, not one of them patented it. Eddie Van Halen didn't patent two-hand tapping. And Lito he said he's tried to do this 3 or 4 times? Well, now we know who the Gene Simmons of the cigar world is.
    +1 brother......money, economics, industry share, maximizing profit------all in the world we like to think of as peaceful Central Amaericans enjoying their craft.
    i was thinking and just to play devils advocate (because i agree with this above sentiment) : what if we look at this as the shape of a guitar? didnt gibson or fender at one point have a patent on their iconic shape? yes it is an art to make the guitar but that doesnt mean that those companies didnt make a contribution that they should reap benefits from.

    iduno... its only for 4 more years.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    Ken_LightKen_Light Posts: 3,537 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    i was thinking and just to play devils advocate (because i agree with this above sentiment) : what if we look at this as the shape of a guitar? didnt gibson or fender at one point have a patent on their iconic shape? yes it is an art to make the guitar but that doesnt mean that those companies didnt make a contribution that they should reap benefits from.

    There are knockoffs of all the iconic guitar shapes. Epiphone has made a business of ripping off Gibson and everyone rips off Fender. Whether this was always true, I don't know. Whether they tried to patent them, I don't know. But those are almost entirely aesthetic, at least in the case of electric guitars.

    I feel like if he were to patent a secret fermentation process or something along those lines that he had to hone over years of work and research and trial and error, I'd be pretty OK with that, he's trying to keep it secret anyway, they all do that. But a shape is something different to me, it's something that he stumbled upon and could easily benefit all manufacturers, it's more of sweep arpeggio technique than it is a shape of guitar or a way to process the wood used to get a unique sound.

    And someone mentioned that he can prove he invented this. That doesn't matter, he doesn't have to. Gene Simmons patented putting a dollar sign on a black money bag. He didn't come up with that. All you have to be is the first to file the paperwork. Quick, everyone run and patent the perfecto.
    kuzi16:
    iduno... its only for 4 more years.


    That's what I tried to tell myself when Obama was elected, lol
    ^Troll: DO NOT FEED.
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    epiphone and gibson are in cahoots. if i am not mistaken gibson is more of a parent company. they own epiphone. slightly different but i get your point.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    epiphone and gibson are in cahoots. if i am not mistaken gibson is more of a parent company. they own epiphone. slightly different but i get your point.
    They do, and have for 40 years. The guitar business is much different and seeing what has happened in that regard, I see little impact. for the most part the only thing really policed is the headstock design anymore, and nothing else. When you look at what was going on in that industry in the late seventies, it made sense that companies were making money and selling cheap copies of their trademark as the instruments were basically a blatant copy with a different name. That is far from the case here, other than maybe the new copy Ccom made. I could see a case made in that regard as take away the band, and a consumer could not tell the differece.


    I just don't see anyone in the cigar industry giving a crap and freaking out about not bieng able to produce the chisel tip. Will it make my 52C's any more valuable? Who knows...and it still does not make it a great cigar. I could care less what tip a cigar has if it blows. As a consumer, if I see a cigar with a chisel I do not think LFD. If Lito thinks I should, right on...I don't like his cigars anyways.
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    catfishbluezz:
    As a consumer, if I see a cigar with a chisel I do not think LFD. If Lito thinks I should, right on...I don't like his cigars anyways.
    oh yeah?!?!? well... well.. i dont like YOU!!


    but seriously...
    i DO think of LFD when i see a chisel tip.
    of course im all in when it comes to LFD.

    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    catfishbluezz:
    As a consumer, if I see a cigar with a chisel I do not think LFD. If Lito thinks I should, right on...I don't like his cigars anyways.
    oh yeah?!?!? well... well.. i dont like YOU!!


    but seriously...
    i DO think of LFD when i see a chisel tip.
    of course im all in when it comes to LFD.

    Granted, to an LFD fan I could see the association. For me, I've had several LFD cigars and chisel's from them and AJ. I never once knew, cared, or associated the chisel with them. So while this might influence an experienced smoker, i see no reason why the vitola would influence anyone into thinking they are smoking an LFD, or what should be one, if they are a casual smoker or relatively new to the cigar world.
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    docbp87docbp87 Posts: 3,521 ✭
    I don't understand how you could think of anything OTHER than Litto/LFD when you see a Chisel? Until very recently when CCom/CI started selling a few cigars with a chisel tip, literally no one else sold cigars in that shape, and it was a big deal when Litto invented it. It's like the Shark vitola... I'm not sure if Fuente actually LEGALLY has the sole rights to use it, but I would shocked to see anyone else use it. When it comes to creative/unique vitolas like this, I think it is kind of tacky for other brands to use the shape. The Chisel is Litto's gimmick, and anyone else uses it just seems like they are riding his coat tails...
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    docbp87:
    The Chisel is Litto's gimmick, and anyone else uses it just seems like they are riding his coat tails...
    at least they are good coat tails to be on.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    taythegibstaythegibs Posts: 2,025 ✭
    docbp87:
    I don't understand how you could think of anything OTHER than Litto/LFD when you see a Chisel? Until very recently when CCom/CI started selling a few cigars with a chisel tip, literally no one else sold cigars in that shape, and it was a big deal when Litto invented it. It's like the Shark vitola... I'm not sure if Fuente actually LEGALLY has the sole rights to use it, but I would shocked to see anyone else use it. When it comes to creative/unique vitolas like this, I think it is kind of tacky for other brands to use the shape. The Chisel is Litto's gimmick, and anyone else uses it just seems like they are riding his coat tails...
    i think that this makes a lot of sense, and then they have the four years to maximize their profits on Their chisel before they come out with something else big, be it a shape or a blend. It seems to me that many fads seem to last 3-4 years, so even though i dont think that Patenting the Chisel Tip should have done, imo, it makes sense fiscally.
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