Too freakin much
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Holding people in bondage until they are ready to be free is a ridiculous argument. Who decides when they are ready for freedom the same people holding them in bondage. The if this happened, and then this happened, they would have eventually done what they should have in the first place argument is also flawed. Slavery is wrong whether it is sexual, economic, or racial.1
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You think he explained that it was an ISIS battle flag when he ordered it, or did he order it and then made a video of it afterwards?1
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Yes, that would be a rediculous argument. You either didn't read or didn't understand what was said. If you are ever in KY you could visit the Jefferson Davis memorial, if your vandalous friends haven't destroyed that bit of history, and educate yourself. The last time I was there I saw black and white families at picnic tables side by side, their children playing together. Davis' vision realized. Interesting to see that Davis was right. The races are equal in every way. At the bottom of the trash heap are the ignorant vandals you applaud, and the KKK, each perprtrating their crimes behind masks and under cover of night. At the top we persons like Frederick Douglas, Booker Washington, Sojourner Truth, Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Martin L. King, and Barack Obama standing shoulder to shoulder with anyone, proving themselves the moral and intllectual equals of anyone. Behind the scenes, however, are the moneyed elites who fear that the working classes will realize that their differences are superficial, come together, and turn their attention to their real oppressors. On the sides are the haters, fanning the flames of hate to ensure that the chaos and tumult continue in perpetuity, to Satans delight. Your choice, made above, to join the hate defines who you are. The beauty of being a human being is that you can choose to change. Stop the hate.ExpendableYouth said:Holding people in bondage until they are ready to be free is a ridiculous argument. Who decides when they are ready for freedom the same people holding them in bondage. The if this happened, and then this happened, they would have eventually done what they should have in the first place argument is also flawed. Slavery is wrong whether it is sexual, economic, or racial.WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain2 -
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Your argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Your son's black captain is not a spokesmen for all black people and his beliefs are probably not representational of the standard African American view point. The idea that the south would have abolished slavery on their own shortly after the civil war is silly.
Even by your own admittance Davis ideas were not popular with other whites. How long slavery would have continued if the south had won will always be a mystery; but judging on how white southerners treated blacks after the civil war it wouldn't have any time soon.
These are nonviolent protesters striking out at what they view are racist monuments and ideology. Comparing these protestors with the S.C. shooter is disgusting because only one of them is walking around with a gun and a battle flag.1 -
Sooo They're not Vandals or Criminals they're....
"Spin that verbage round and round, 'till that true meanings never found"
"Grab your partner and do-si-do..."0 -
Sooo They're not Vandals or Criminals they're....
"Spin that verbage round and round, 'till that true meanings never found"
"Grab your partner and do-si-do..."1 -
And why didn't these people have a problem with these atrocious racist symbols of oppression saaaay a week and a half ago...1
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Could have been that white gentleman walking into a black church and shooting black people. Maybe.1
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Just addressing the OP, I do have a problem with vandalism. People have a right to protest within the confines of the law. If they want the statues taken down and placed in museums rather than public places, that's fine. Have a peaceful protest stating that. There is no reason to vandalize works of art, even if you do disagree with what they stand for.LLA - Lancero Lovers of America2
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I wonder if African Americans didn't have a problem with Jim Crow laws until a week berfore the civil rights amendment? Or maybe they didn't have a problem with slavery until a week before the emancipation proclamation? Hmmm... It's a tough one.2
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You're probably right on that one. They probably assembled and protested peacefully, petitioned their representatives and had the measure placed on the ballot for vote. That probably ended pretty well for them too. The proclamation didn't really accomplish anything, ever read the first draft of it, read it then wonder why the second draft is only applied to southern states. I digress.
Abolish Slavery? Thank you 13th Amendment!
Abolish Jim Crowe Laws? Thank you Brown vs. Board of Education and 14th Amendment
Civil Rights? Thank you Civil Rights act of 1964
See a trend yet?
Now a certain group has used knee jerk reaction from a tragic event fueled by a politician facing certain political suicide and future party demonization as an excuse to vandalize, steal and deface artifacts from our past. Now everyone is jumping on the "Let's sanitize anything and everything confederate" from every nook and cranny in the US...SHEEP! And I bet ever last looter had Michael Brown's memory firmly in the forefront as the carried a brand new 50" Flat Screen home. Same F**KING CONCEPT
If you'll excuse me I have to pull my Aurora Colorado T'shirt out of the dryer, i'm late for my ban all AR-15's protest.0 -
It was because the north were already free states, and had been free states prior to proclamation. Hence why slaves were fleeing north, but I digress as well.0
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(Sigh) I even gave you a chance to look that one up too.
never approach a bull from the front
ever approach a horse from the back
And never argue politics with a liberal from the bay area
I tap. You win. If you need me I'll be over in Reality0 -
I guess missed your point, it's been a while since I took history 1a, so I am assuming that your point was that since Lincoln didn't have authority to emancipate slaves in the four states that were in rebellion it was a failed act? The north was currently free, and Lincoln only felt he was granted the authority to emancipate slaves in areas of open rebellion. I still fail to see what that has to do with people stealing TV's or why state buildings in the south deem it appropriate to fly a confederate flag, but sure.0
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Some people seem confounded that confederate memorials actually exist.
Maybe we should ask the Victors. The Federal Government.
Why would the "U.S." Navy would name vessels after traitors Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson?Or name these military installations after these traitors?
Fort Benning, Georgia – Major General Henry L. Benning, CSA
Fort Bragg, North Carolina – General Braxton Bragg, CSA
Fort Campbell, Kentucky – Brig. General William Bowen Campbell, CSA
Fort Gordon, Georgia – General John Brown Gordon, CSA
Fort A.P. Hill, Virginia – Lt. General Ambrose Powell Hill, CSA
Fort Hood, Texas – General John Bell Hood, CSA
Camp Lee, Virginia – General Robert E. Lee, CSA
Fort Polk, Louisiana – Lt. General Leonidas K. Polk, CSA
Fort Rucker, Alabama – Colonel Edmond W. Rucker, CSA
There is a confederate memorial at Arlington National Cemetery."For the traitors?" Yes. You see, the federals and the confederates reconciled.
The feds even conferred full U.S. veteran status to the confederate soldiers.
To honor them.
They didn't teach you this in school, did they?
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All this brings me to remember a trip I had down south. I was in S.C. On a plantation tour and learning more about how slaves were treated. They explained how hard they were worked and how awful the conditions were. The talked about what the conditions were where they were kept and how little food and water they got. All of a sudden a older southern man asked this question...well isn't this a upgrade from them living in Africa? Yup good old southern education at its finest!Money can't buy taste1
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After they swore an oath reaffirming their allegiance to the United States, and that they would abolish slavery.0
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Is that in reply to me? I don't think we are on the same page here. When did your thing happen?... could you run that by me again?ExpendableYouth said:After they swore an oath reaffirming their allegiance to the United States, and that they would abolish slavery.0 -
Lee, I love you man but, admit it, you plagiarized that. You had to have cut and pasted that. It contained none of your trademarked punctuation. (!!!!!!)Lee.mcglynn said:All this brings me to remember a trip I had down south. I was in S.C. On a plantation tour and learning more about how slaves were treated. They explained how hard they were worked and how awful the conditions were. The talked about what the conditions were where they were kept and how little food and water they got. All of a sudden a older southern man asked this question...well isn't this a upgrade from them living in Africa? Yup good old southern education at its finest!0 -
The 10 percent plan- President Lincoln announces a plan for reconstructing those Confederate states already under Union control. He offers to pardon Confederates who take an oath to support the Union. When ten percent of a state's citizens eligible to vote in 1860 swear an oath of allegiance and a state has abolished slavery, he promises to readmit the state to the Union.
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Hahahahaaaa I wish I actually never heard that...it made me sad and feel like this country has no hope. But your right I did leave that stuff out!!!!!!Bob_Luken said:
Lee, I love you man but, admit it, you plagiarized that. You had to have cut and pasted that. It contained none of your trademarked punctuation. (!!!!!!)Lee.mcglynn said:All this brings me to remember a trip I had down south. I was in S.C. On a plantation tour and learning more about how slaves were treated. They explained how hard they were worked and how awful the conditions were. The talked about what the conditions were where they were kept and how little food and water they got. All of a sudden a older southern man asked this question...well isn't this a upgrade from them living in Africa? Yup good old southern education at its finest!Money can't buy taste0 -
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Johnson allowed the states back in without the 10 percent rule, requiring that they ratify the 13th amendment and pardons ex-confederate's who petition them. This has gotten very off topic.0
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Before the war? No, I'm talking about much later. Long after the war. No oath, Slavery was long over. Hardly any confederates left alive. It was mostly symbolic. But my point is their service was honored by the federal government. These monuments in the south,..... shouldn't be of any great consternation to you seeing as the federal government sees fit to honor confederate veterans in many ways. If you're willing to destroy confederate monuments,...... (are you?) then get ready to blast those evil slave owners Washington and Jefferson's face off of Mt. Rushmore.ExpendableYouth said:The 10 percent plan- President Lincoln announces a plan for reconstructing those Confederate states already under Union control. He offers to pardon Confederates who take an oath to support the Union. When ten percent of a state's citizens eligible to vote in 1860 swear an oath of allegiance and a state has abolished slavery, he promises to readmit the state to the Union.0 -
Washington and Jefferson only achievement wasn't succeeding from the union and starting a war over their right to hold slaves; and if that is your only claim to fame you don't deserve a monument.0
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When the Confederate soldiers marched home from Lee's surrender, the union soldiers stood quietly at attention. They, unlike you, understood that all involved were, and had always been, Americans. One and all.
My Dad told me: "Never argue with fools or drunks, you'll beat them six ways from sunday, but they're too stupid, or too intoxicated to understand
I know from your posts on other topics you're not stupid.
I believe you must be intoxicated with the ignorance and disdain of southern culture.
The Confederate flag is flown to remember the dead.
How do you remember your dead ancestors, whatever side of history they fall out on?
I've done all I can to help you, as a good friend of mine used to say: "you keep selling your wolf tickets, I'm through cutting heads here"
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain1 -
The monuments are here, the soldiers were honored long before either of us were born.ExpendableYouth said:Washington and Jefferson only achievement wasn't succeeding from the union and starting a war over their right to hold slaves; and if that is your only claim to fame you don't deserve a monument.
I want you to please answer a question. This will be a dialogue. If you're interested.
Do you want the confederate monuments torn down, or moved to a museum or battlefield or cemetery? What is your idea? BTW there's one on nearly every town square. (None I have seen with battle flags flying over them but, who knows how many tons of granite.)
And, I want you to ask me a question. Anything you wish. Private message or here, doesn't matter. I don't want you to assume what is in my mind.
Post edited by Bob_Luken on1 -
I would like to say I don't hate southern culture, but I believe it is in bad taste to fly a confederate flag over a state building. It was a symbol of oppression to African Americans then and it continues to used as one now. It is associated with the KKK and other white supremacists groups. If the war had not been an internal one we wouldn't have these symbols in the country today. It is no secret that the south didn't agree with equal rights for African Americans after reconstruction, and created poll taxes and utilized physical threats to keep them from asserting their suffrage rights. Churches were burned and people were lynched to keep generations of people in check. The flag and monuments may have a certain meaning to you, but it carries an entirely different meaning for others. To this day there is no national slave memorial, yet numerous memorials to honor those who fought on the side of oppression.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ePFollQQE
