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Israel 'to keep' parts of West Bank

Netanyahu pledged to retain parts of the West Bank for Israel 'forever' [AFP]

Israel's prime minister has reaffirmed his country's commitment to retaining parts of the occupied West Bank, undermining US efforts to restart talks aimed at eventually establishing a Palestinian state.

During a tree planting ceremony in a West Bank settlement, Binyamin Netanyahu said that parts of the territory would be kept by Israel under any final peace agreement reached with the Palestinians.

"Our message is clear: We are planting here, we will stay here, we will build here, this place will be an inseparable part of the state of Israel forever," he said.

Netanyahu also pledged that Israel would keep its two biggest settlements in the West Bank, Maale Adumim and Ariel.

The Israeli prime minister's comments came as George Mitchell, the US envoy to the region, visited in an attempt to restart negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel, which were suspended a year ago.

'Interesting ideas'

Netanyahu said after meeting Mitchell on Sunday that he had "heard some interesting ideas for renewing the [peace] process".

"I also expressed my hope that these new ideas will allow for the renewal of the process," he said.

"Certainly if the Palestinians express a similar readiness, then we will find ourselves in a diplomatic process."

But Nabil Abu Rdeneh, an aide to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, said that Netanyahu's statement about retaining areas of the West Bank undermined the US efforts.

"This is an unacceptable act that destroys all the efforts being exerted by senator Mitchell in order to bring the parties back to the negotiating table," The Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.

Netanyahu has also said this week that Israeli security forces would have to maintain a presence inside any future Palestinian state.

He said on Thursday that Israel would need to operate along the West Bank's eastern border to prevent weapons being smuggled to Palestinian fighters.

Statehood hopes

Netanyahu's remarks are unlikely to be compatible with the Palestinians' demand for a sovereign state within the two entities pre-1967 borders.

Palestinians want to create an independent state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem with full control of its own borders.

Since Netanyahu took office last year, he has been hesitant to refer to the concept of a Palestinian state and has not outlined how much, if any, of the occupied West Bank he would be willing to give over to Palestinian control.

Palestinian leaders have said they will not resume peace talks until Israel halts all construction of illegal settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Netanyahu has called a limited and temporary halt to the building of new housing units in the West Bank, but the Palestinians have dismissed the move as not going far enough.

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Comments

  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,024 ✭✭
    OK, this you can be sure of, they will fight each other forever or until one completely does away with the other.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    fla-gypsy:
    OK, this you can be sure of, they will fight each other forever or until one completely does away with the other.
    isnt this (in theory) how war is waged? you fight each other until one is eliminated or surrenders. not pretty. not fun. not nice. thats war for you.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    kuzi16:
    fla-gypsy:
    OK, this you can be sure of, they will fight each other forever or until one completely does away with the other.
    isnt this (in theory) how war is waged? you fight each other until one is eliminated or surrenders. not pretty. not fun. not nice. thats war for you.
    Oh, is there a war going on over there? I thought it was an occupation... my bad.
  • So how is Palestine so right and just? The real fight is over who gets to build a Temple and the existance of a Jewish State. Geographicallly speaking Isreal and Palestine are two different names for the space piece of real estate. The main dispute is over the Holy City and even more so over this:










    image





    A rock covered by a gold dome buit on top of the ruins of King Davids Temple.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    EDIT:
    ya know what.


    never mind

    let it suffice to say that im frustrated that Israel is always made to be the evil only one here, when Hezbolla with backing from Iran is the group that wants to eradicate the jews and deny the Hollocost.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,826 ✭✭✭
    Kuz I really dont think Isreal is made to be the only evil one here. And even if that is so, I think its it draw attention to the solely pro-Isreal news and rhetoric we get in North America, very biased on the part of our media.
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,561
    When Isreali's begin strapping explosive vests onto children and sending them into public places filled with women and children to blow up, I might just give a $hit about the Palestinians; but not until then.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    cabinetmaker:
    When Isreali's begin strapping explosive vests onto children and sending them into public places filled with women and children to blow up, I might just give a $hit about the Palestinians; but not until then.
    though i understand your sentiment here im not sure ive ever seen an article or instance where a child strapped on a bomb. got a link?
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    cabinetmaker:
    When Isreali's begin strapping explosive vests onto children and sending them into public places filled with women and children to blow up, I might just give a $hit about the Palestinians; but not until then.
    though i understand your sentiment here im not sure ive ever seen an article or instance where a child strapped on a bomb. got a link?
    I am sure you can ask anyone on here that has served in Iraq or Afghanistan about stuff like this and they will tell you what one sect of a religion is doing to make a statement. I worked with a guy who had 2 kids on bicycles pushed out in front of his convoy. He had to run the kids over. Why you ask, because they push kids and women in front of these convoys to ambush them and take the supplies and weapons. They kidnap these kids and women from their families and do this all the time. Yes, I know they are extremists but I have no respect for anyone that does that. Yes, I know that atrocities have been commited in the name of all religions at one time or another but those were before my time. In my lifetime, the extreme side of the Muslim faith is responsible for so many attacks and atrocities that one person cannot name them all. I haven't seen any reports of Israeli suicide bombers. Good point cabi
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,024 ✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Kuz I really dont think Isreal is made to be the only evil one here. And even if that is so, I think its it draw attention to the solely pro-Isreal news and rhetoric we get in North America, very biased on the part of our media.
    This is a good lesson in perception for all of us. I see the news here as very pro palestinian, Vulchor sees it the other way. Israel will never give up Jerusalem, and they will eventually take the Temple Mount and attempt to rebuild their Temple. The Muslims will always try to pick at the perimiter of Israel's defenses and occassionally get enough nerve to attack straight up when they get full of Allah. The result will continue to be the same until one of them breaks out the nasty weapons (nuclear or chemical) then all bets are off as to what will occur. Every few years the Muslims decide they are going to wipe them from the earth and they go home with their tail between their legs. It doesn't matter what we think is right or wrong, this is reality.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    fla-gypsy:
    Vulchor:
    Kuz I really dont think Isreal is made to be the only evil one here. And even if that is so, I think its it draw attention to the solely pro-Isreal news and rhetoric we get in North America, very biased on the part of our media.
    This is a good lesson in perception for all of us. I see the news here as very pro palestinian, Vulchor sees it the other way. Israel will never give up Jerusalem, and they will eventually take the Temple Mount and attempt to rebuild their Temple. The Muslims will always try to pick at the perimiter of Israel's defenses and occassionally get enough nerve to attack straight up when they get full of Allah. The result will continue to be the same until one of them breaks out the nasty weapons (nuclear or chemical) then all bets are off as to what will occur. Every few years the Muslims decide they are going to wipe them from the earth and they go home with their tail between their legs. It doesn't matter what we think is right or wrong, this is reality.
    Like Denniskings' statements, Cabi, your's is the same. I have never seen or heard of ANY of these types of incidences happening. Any proof? Either of you? Even Kuzi wouldn't just accept that load without some proof. I respect Kuzi very much for his views and even tho they differ from mine, he keeps the arguement real most of the time.

    As far as Fla-gypsy's comments above, I have just one thought. If the Isreali's ever did return to the 1967 borders and did leave all of the occupied territories to the Palestinians as they have been asking for, for years, maybe there would be no reason to "break out the nasty weapons". I can hear some of you already saying that this would not work either. You know why? Because Israel won't accept that, they want more land, and some VERY particular pieces of land. They bring 2/3 of the total potable water into Israel off of Palestinian land.

    I have heard it said here about choosing the Palestinians over Israel. I have been down this road before here. I do NOT favour the Palestinians over the Israeli's at all. However who is in who's territory? Who is forcing people to live like animals, who is causing people to lose family possessions and livelihoods? Who has stolen land time and again for "security" reasons, while the actual "punishment" reasons are so very evident? (fences, security zones, israeli only roads, chopping down Olive groves, etc.)

    Now if anyone here can find a refference to where I say I support or favor the Palestinians I'll eat my hat. I do NOT favor the Palestinians in this issue at all. I feel very strongly about the way the Palestinians have been abused by the state of Israel for so long. I feel very strongly about the way they have been abused on the international stage as well. These people have been put thru a living hell, mostly by, or on behalf of people who having lived thru their own hell, should know better, and should be able to show some level of compassion. Is compassion a word you can conjur up when thinking about how an Israeli feels towards the Palestinians? ( I sure hope there are some, I am talking generally).

    The reason I keep posting things like this, and come down against the Israeli's is simple, they are the occupiers, the aggressors, and the people on the wrong side of the border. That is ALL! To be completely honest here, I have said many times that I do NOT agree with the Palestinians firing missles into Israel, but while they are being occupied, and with access to any real weapons basically cut off, how else are they suppose to keep this issue in the eye's of the world? Signs and protest marches? Perhaps they should continue to pin their hopes on the UN?

    The ONLY solution which has NOT been tried, and during negotiations always seems to be derailed by the Isreali side, is to return to the 1967 borders and let the negotiations begin between two equals. Everything from water rights, to security would be on the table. But wait, that's right, there is no "table" just the endless occupation and hate, which they have choosen over peace and security. And as always this is just MY OPINION.
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    quote=laker1963Like Denniskings' statements, Cabi, your's is the same. I have never seen or heard of ANY of these types of incidences happening. Any proof?

    Correct me if I am reading this incorrectly but are you saying that there is no proof of suicide bombers and children being used as ambush roadblocks. If this is what you are saying then I am sorry that the purveyors of the information you digest are so blind and decided in their infinite wisdom to leave those things out. If you don't believe me, call Bernard Rogers, a friend of mine. Ask him of the atrocities he's seen when in Iraq. He worked in transportation while in the US Army, and later Internal Affairs. Here's his phone number 541-979-9152. If I had Jeremy Anderson's number, you could call him as well. He ran over those little kids on bikes and drinks himself to sleep every night. If I misunderstand you, then no harm no foul, but if indeed I am reading this correctly, Shame on You.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    dennisking:
    quote=laker1963Like Denniskings' statements, Cabi, your's is the same. I have never seen or heard of ANY of these types of incidences happening. Any proof?

    Correct me if I am reading this incorrectly but are you saying that there is no proof of suicide bombers and children being used as ambush roadblocks. If this is what you are saying then I am sorry that the purveyors of the information you digest are so blind and decided in their infinite wisdom to leave those things out. If you don't believe me, call Bernard Rogers, a friend of mine. Ask him of the atrocities he's seen when in Iraq. He worked in transportation while in the US Army, and later Internal Affairs. Here's his phone number 541-979-9152. If I had Jeremy Anderson's number, you could call him as well. He ran over those little kids on bikes and drinks himself to sleep every night. If I misunderstand you, then no harm no foul, but if indeed I am reading this correctly, Shame on You.

    Sorry man, but if these things did NOT make it into the news that is made available to the general public then it is second hand heresay.

    Don't get me wrong Dennis, I am not saying it did not happen, but just because you, or your friend say it happened is NOT proof. Considering how the news loves to glorify these types of incidences, to gain sympathy for their side, I would think that we would have seen or heard of incidences such as these before. Not saying it didn't happen, but it is not a good example as there seems to be no eveidence it happened other than what you wrote here.

    But just to play devils advocate here... are you saying that because these incidences took place in Iraq, that gives the Isreali's the "right" to treat the Palestinians the way they do in the occupied territories? Cause that's just %ucked-up dewd.
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    dennisking:
    quote=laker1963Like Denniskings' statements, Cabi, your's is the same. I have never seen or heard of ANY of these types of incidences happening. Any proof?

    Correct me if I am reading this incorrectly but are you saying that there is no proof of suicide bombers and children being used as ambush roadblocks. If this is what you are saying then I am sorry that the purveyors of the information you digest are so blind and decided in their infinite wisdom to leave those things out. If you don't believe me, call Bernard Rogers, a friend of mine. Ask him of the atrocities he's seen when in Iraq. He worked in transportation while in the US Army, and later Internal Affairs. Here's his phone number 541-979-9152. If I had Jeremy Anderson's number, you could call him as well. He ran over those little kids on bikes and drinks himself to sleep every night. If I misunderstand you, then no harm no foul, but if indeed I am reading this correctly, Shame on You.

    Sorry man, but if these things did NOT make it into the news that is made available to the general public then it is second hand heresay.

    Don't get me wrong Dennis, I am not saying it did not happen, but just because you, or your friend say it happened is NOT proof. Considering how the news loves to glorify these types of incidences, to gain sympathy for their side, I would think that we would have seen or heard of incidences such as these before. Not saying it didn't happen, but it is not a good example as there seems to be no eveidence it happened other than what you wrote here.

    But just to play devils advocate here... are you saying that because these incidences took place in Iraq, that gives the Isreali's the "right" to treat the Palestinians the way they do in the occupied territories? Cause that's just %ucked-up dewd.
    Nothing gives a group of people the right to mistreat another. Whether it be through suicide bombers or a turf war or genocide. Plain and simple. But when you have one group willing to take something under any means necessary, then it's clear to me who I should side with.
    In regards to my sources not being credible, I'm sorry it wasn't printed in the newspaper on your doorstep or the websites and tv channels you choose to inform yourself with. There is such a thing as biased media, who would have you believe their side and their side alone. Most Americans don't get to know these things as it's not the stuff the nightly news is prepared for.
    This article may help enlighten you as to what extremist groups are willing to do to get their points across, gain funding, and further their agendas.
    Kidnapped Boy
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    dennisking:
    laker1963:
    dennisking:
    quote=laker1963Like Denniskings' statements, Cabi, your's is the same. I have never seen or heard of ANY of these types of incidences happening. Any proof?

    Correct me if I am reading this incorrectly but are you saying that there is no proof of suicide bombers and children being used as ambush roadblocks. If this is what you are saying then I am sorry that the purveyors of the information you digest are so blind and decided in their infinite wisdom to leave those things out. If you don't believe me, call Bernard Rogers, a friend of mine. Ask him of the atrocities he's seen when in Iraq. He worked in transportation while in the US Army, and later Internal Affairs. Here's his phone number 541-979-9152. If I had Jeremy Anderson's number, you could call him as well. He ran over those little kids on bikes and drinks himself to sleep every night. If I misunderstand you, then no harm no foul, but if indeed I am reading this correctly, Shame on You.

    Sorry man, but if these things did NOT make it into the news that is made available to the general public then it is second hand heresay.

    Don't get me wrong Dennis, I am not saying it did not happen, but just because you, or your friend say it happened is NOT proof. Considering how the news loves to glorify these types of incidences, to gain sympathy for their side, I would think that we would have seen or heard of incidences such as these before. Not saying it didn't happen, but it is not a good example as there seems to be no eveidence it happened other than what you wrote here.

    But just to play devils advocate here... are you saying that because these incidences took place in Iraq, that gives the Isreali's the "right" to treat the Palestinians the way they do in the occupied territories? Cause that's just %ucked-up dewd.
    Nothing gives a group of people the right to mistreat another. Whether it be through suicide bombers or a turf war or genocide. Plain and simple. But when you have one group willing to take something under any means necessary, then it's clear to me who I should side with.
    In regards to my sources not being credible, I'm sorry it wasn't printed in the newspaper on your doorstep or the websites and tv channels you choose to inform yourself with. There is such a thing as biased media, who would have you believe their side and their side alone. Most Americans don't get to know these things as it's not the stuff the nightly news is prepared for.
    This article may help enlighten you as to what extremist groups are willing to do to get their points across, gain funding, and further their agendas.
    Kidnapped Boy
    I will read your article and get back to you on it. One question tho, which you never addressed from my first post. If one side has all the military equipment, the backing of a super power, and the ability to use both to keep the other side without any military structure whatever, and with restrictions in place that prevent conventional weapons to be furnished to the under priviledged side. So my question to you is what would you have them fight with when these are the only weapons available to them? Your point about the "Extremeist" group ( I assume you don't mean the Israeli government here) being willing to do unbelievable things to further their cause. What would you do, or not do because you were afraid of outside condemnation in your efforts to protect, your family and to be able to provide them with a living standard that is at least tolerable? Be honest, wouldn't you do almost ANYTHING? I Would.
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,132
    laker1963:
    dennisking:
    laker1963:
    dennisking:
    quote=laker1963Like Denniskings' statements, Cabi, your's is the same. I have never seen or heard of ANY of these types of incidences happening. Any proof?

    Correct me if I am reading this incorrectly but are you saying that there is no proof of suicide bombers and children being used as ambush roadblocks. If this is what you are saying then I am sorry that the purveyors of the information you digest are so blind and decided in their infinite wisdom to leave those things out. If you don't believe me, call Bernard Rogers, a friend of mine. Ask him of the atrocities he's seen when in Iraq. He worked in transportation while in the US Army, and later Internal Affairs. Here's his phone number 541-979-9152. If I had Jeremy Anderson's number, you could call him as well. He ran over those little kids on bikes and drinks himself to sleep every night. If I misunderstand you, then no harm no foul, but if indeed I am reading this correctly, Shame on You.

    Sorry man, but if these things did NOT make it into the news that is made available to the general public then it is second hand heresay.

    Don't get me wrong Dennis, I am not saying it did not happen, but just because you, or your friend say it happened is NOT proof. Considering how the news loves to glorify these types of incidences, to gain sympathy for their side, I would think that we would have seen or heard of incidences such as these before. Not saying it didn't happen, but it is not a good example as there seems to be no eveidence it happened other than what you wrote here.

    But just to play devils advocate here... are you saying that because these incidences took place in Iraq, that gives the Isreali's the "right" to treat the Palestinians the way they do in the occupied territories? Cause that's just %ucked-up dewd.
    Nothing gives a group of people the right to mistreat another. Whether it be through suicide bombers or a turf war or genocide. Plain and simple. But when you have one group willing to take something under any means necessary, then it's clear to me who I should side with.
    In regards to my sources not being credible, I'm sorry it wasn't printed in the newspaper on your doorstep or the websites and tv channels you choose to inform yourself with. There is such a thing as biased media, who would have you believe their side and their side alone. Most Americans don't get to know these things as it's not the stuff the nightly news is prepared for.
    This article may help enlighten you as to what extremist groups are willing to do to get their points across, gain funding, and further their agendas.
    Kidnapped Boy
    I will read your article and get back to you on it. One question tho, which you never addressed from my first post. If one side has all the military equipment, the backing of a super power, and the ability to use both to keep the other side without any military structure whatever, and with restrictions in place that prevent conventional weapons to be furnished to the under priviledged side. So my question to you is what would you have them fight with when these are the only weapons available to them? Your point about the "Extremeist" group ( I assume you don't mean the Israeli government here) being willing to do unbelievable things to further their cause. What would you do, or not do because you were afraid of outside condemnation in your efforts to protect, your family and to be able to provide them with a living standard that is at least tolerable? Be honest, wouldn't you do almost ANYTHING? I Would.
    You are 100% correct here laker, I would do ANYTHING, but to attack the people who are threatening my family. Not to a bus full of women and children. If they aren't afraid of being killed, then why don't they attack military targets? Why don't they attack the people who are attacking them instead of busses, cafes, office buildings and other areas with large numbers of civilians and pretty much no military personel? That would make much more sense and I would have a lot more respect for their cause. The the Isaelis do have a uniformed militarty with bases and military posts... it's not like Hezbolah and Hamas where they are all just private citizens running around and you never know who is a member and who isn't. There is no excuse for the tactics they use.
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    you read the article and you let me know if you would do THAT to further your cause. I know you wouldn't. Keep in mind that saying Palestine has a lack of military backing is a mis-statement. Iran, UAE, Jordan, Egypt, Libyia, and Pakistan would all love to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth and have the weaponry to do so. It's not like a bully picking on a small kid and stealing the lunch money. It's like two bullies in a boxing ring with people egging them on.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    OK, I read your link Dennisking.

    You are joking right? Are you telling me that because al Qaeda kidnaps this and other children in Iraq, that you have ill feelings towards the Palestinians, and this is the reason you support the occupation by Israel of a different country altogether then the one your posted link was refferring to? You can't be serious! How are they connected? They are two different countries and four different groups of people for heaven sake! The issues of the Palestinians is in NO WAY connected to al Qaede or what is going on in Iraq ! I can't even believe you can somehow form a connection between them, except thru mis-information which you believe or HATE.

    I don't want to let this get personal, but that is one twisted view. The extremeist from al Qaede in Iraq kidnap a kid in IRAQ, so let the Israeli's continue to occupy and abuse peoples individual rights in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip !?!?

    You've lost me on this one.
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    this is more than Palestinian and Israeli. This is Muslim vs. Jew and what I was referring to was the extremest side of the Muslim faith and their willingness to do whatever it takes to accomplish the goal. I mentioned some examples, you doubted them, I provided proof that those groups are willing to do ANYTHING including sending human bombs into crowded civilian areas to make a point. The other side is not doing the same. this goes back to Ishmael and Isaac, both sons of Abraham from different mothers. The fight started here. The Ishmaelites vs. the Israelites. Again, only one side is targeting innocent civilians and the other is not. Tell me how this is not relevant again to what is happening in Gaza, because all it comes down to is a religious war. It's not about land, it's about the people in that land and the desire for eradication.
    you can trivialize this and keep grasping at straws but I think you may need to pull your vision back a little to look at the bigger picture at play

    As another side note, I don't want anyone to think that I dislike laker or have a vendetta against him. I'm sure in real life we would get along just fine, but like myself, he is passionate about something and isn't afraid to speak up and I respect that. sometimes it's okay to butt heads
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    cabinetmaker:
    Again I ask, what would you have them fight with? Sticks? Rocks?
    They tried those. Not very effective against guns and tanks.

    Please answer what you would fight with as a Palestinian (not a Muslim) in the occupied territories?

    Please also tell us what you would do to fight for your family and your own personal human rights? Or would you just be a good Palestinian and do as you were told, and give whatever is asked of you?

    I keep asking these questions and now this has escalated to a Muslim free world issue? Let's keep to this one topic shall we?

    I have to go read Cabi's links now. :)
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,561
    laker1963:
    cabinetmaker:
    Again I ask, what would you have them fight with? Sticks? Rocks?
    They tried those. Not very effective against guns and tanks.

    Please answer what you would fight with as a Palestinian (not a Muslim) in the occupied territories?

    Please also tell us what you would do to fight for your family and your own personal human rights? Or would you just be a good Palestinian and do as you were told, and give whatever is asked of you?

    I keep asking these questions and now this has escalated to a Muslim free world issue? Let's keep to this one topic shall we?

    I have to go read Cabi's links now. :)
    I think you have me confused with someone who actually gives a $hit about the Palestinians.
  • LukoLuko Posts: 2,004
    laker1963:
    cabinetmaker:
    Again I ask, what would you have them fight with? Sticks? Rocks?
    They tried those. Not very effective against guns and tanks.

    Please answer what you would fight with as a Palestinian (not a Muslim) in the occupied territories?

    Please also tell us what you would do to fight for your family and your own personal human rights? Or would you just be a good Palestinian and do as you were told, and give whatever is asked of you?

    I keep asking these questions and now this has escalated to a Muslim free world issue? Let's keep to this one topic shall we?

    I have to go read Cabi's links now. :)
    I try like hell to stay out of these...but I really am having trouble with something.

    Laker, you act so indignant and exasperated at Dennis' post and question what he would do, and what weapons should be used. Read Cabi's first link. Are you kidding me??????????????? If I were a Palestinian, I would fight with every fiber of my being to protect my family, and I would do it with honor. I wouldn't strap explosives to a **** child and send him to kill other innocent women and children.
    You may want to make this only Palestinian vs. Israeli, but sorry, it's Muslim vs. Jew, and Muslim vs. every other non Muslim religion. All of the Middle East uses the Palestinian/Irsaeli conflict as a rallying cry for atrocities committed against Westerners and anyone who isn't a Jew, including Osama and I'm-A-Dinner-Jacket.

  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    cabinetmaker:
    laker1963:
    cabinetmaker:
    Again I ask, what would you have them fight with? Sticks? Rocks?
    They tried those. Not very effective against guns and tanks.

    Please answer what you would fight with as a Palestinian (not a Muslim) in the occupied territories?

    Please also tell us what you would do to fight for your family and your own personal human rights? Or would you just be a good Palestinian and do as you were told, and give whatever is asked of you?

    I keep asking these questions and now this has escalated to a Muslim free world issue? Let's keep to this one topic shall we?

    I have to go read Cabi's links now. :)
    I think you have me confused with someone who actually gives a $hit about the Palestinians.
    Not at all. I have you pegged as someone who spouts off but when asked a direct question you can't answer you come back with a comment like...

    I think you have me confused with someone who actually gives a $hit about the Palestinians.

    Your lack of concern for human life is what comes thru very loudly.

    I read your links, and I hope everyone else will too. It does NOT quite support what you say and I don't know "Jeff" from the second link. The third link made me think about how sad that we can see the effects of the occupation, on human life on both sides, but come up devoid of any credible solutions.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    Luko:
    laker1963:
    cabinetmaker:
    Again I ask, what would you have them fight with? Sticks? Rocks?
    They tried those. Not very effective against guns and tanks.

    Please answer what you would fight with as a Palestinian (not a Muslim) in the occupied territories?

    Please also tell us what you would do to fight for your family and your own personal human rights? Or would you just be a good Palestinian and do as you were told, and give whatever is asked of you?

    I keep asking these questions and now this has escalated to a Muslim free world issue? Let's keep to this one topic shall we?

    I have to go read Cabi's links now. :)
    I try like hell to stay out of these...but I really am having trouble with something.

    Laker, you act so indignant and exasperated at Dennis' post and question what he would do, and what weapons should be used. Read Cabi's first link. Are you kidding me??????????????? If I were a Palestinian, I would fight with every fiber of my being to protect my family, and I would do it with honor. I wouldn't strap explosives to a **** child and send him to kill other innocent women and children.
    You may want to make this only Palestinian vs. Israeli, but sorry, it's Muslim vs. Jew, and Muslim vs. every other non Muslim religion. All of the Middle East uses the Palestinian/Irsaeli conflict as a rallying cry for atrocities committed against Westerners and anyone who isn't a Jew, including Osama and I'm-A-Dinner-Jacket.

    If that is how you see it Luko, that's your right. Again you never said what you would fight with every fibre of your being...using what?

    The middle East crisis is the issue, NOT Muslim vs Jew, or Muslim vs everyone else. As I see it.

    But I'll tell you what, why don't you guy's get behind your beliefs and start a group to advocate the total elimination of all people of the Muslim religion. If your arguements are effective you should be able to gain tons of support and before long the extermination can begin. (I think this has been tried before, but...) Then when all the Muslim are gone, we can all live in peace. No?

    I wonder how many innocent Palestinains died at the hands of the IDF or settlers during the same time frame given in Cabi's links, or I guess, given his statement, who gives a $hit?
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    would we have this same argument if we were talking about the british versus the IRA
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    dennisking:
    would we have this same argument if we were talking about the british versus the IRA
    Why do you always want to bring in other conflicts dennis. This is a situation which if dealt with would lay the groundwork for many of the conflicts in the world to disappear.

    It is unlike the British / IRA situation.

    Are you aware that hospitals and sewage treatment plants which were targetted by the IDf during the most recent conflict are not repaired yet? Israel will not allow supplies to cross into Gaza or the West Bank so these repairs can be done. It is to the lowest level of humanity that the israeli policy has sunk. This would not be tolerated anywhere else.

    And this goes on in a country that polls indicate is 2/3 in favor of making peace with the Palestinians. That is the basis for a lot of my anger and arguements here. I DO NOT believe that the average Israeli is a bad person. I have stated that many times now. However I also don't believe that the average Palestinian is a bad person either. Most are caught up in something which has grown so far beyond their realm of being able to do something about it, that they are as much hostage to the situation as any of the Israeli's are.

    That is why I wish the US would push for a fair settlement of the issues and bring about as much pressure on both sides not just the Palestinian side to bring this situation to an end. The way it is now, it seems peace hinges on only what is good for the Israeli's, and history has shown that this is not an acceptable solution.

    I don't know how many times I have to say, I am NOT a Palestinian supporter per say. I just don't agree with people (ANY PEOPLE) being treated in such a manner, and the feigned surprise and shock when they rise up and do something, for exactly those purposes, to surprise and shock (sound familiar) is just so scripted. It is time to get serious with this situation. Of course this is my opinion.
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    I only bring up that other conflict to make the point that, regardless of religion or race, the human race will find a way to start conflict. it's in our nature as people. do I think Israel is wrong. yes. do I think palestine is wrong, yes. do i agree with the tactics of hamas and hezbollah, no I don't and I know you don't as well. I see what point you are trying to make. The point I make is if you see an angry dog, do you jab it with sticks or do you leave it alone. Palestine should quit jabbing lest they push too far. Let sleeping dogs lie and maybe, just maybe they will relax
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    dennisking:
    I only bring up that other conflict to make the point that, regardless of religion or race, the human race will find a way to start conflict. it's in our nature as people. do I think Israel is wrong. yes. do I think palestine is wrong, yes. do i agree with the tactics of hamas and hezbollah, no I don't and I know you don't as well. I see what point you are trying to make. The point I make is if you see an angry dog, do you jab it with sticks or do you leave it alone. Palestine should quit jabbing lest they push too far. Let sleeping dogs lie and maybe, just maybe they will relax
    I like the anology. but would add that this "sleeping dog" is laying on your front doorstep. But I do agree with your point. *** people are stupid, rather fight forever it seems rather come to SOME kind of agreement and get on with raising your families.
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,132
    laker1963:
    cabinetmaker:
    Again I ask, what would you have them fight with? Sticks? Rocks?
    They tried those. Not very effective against guns and tanks.

    Please answer what you would fight with as a Palestinian (not a Muslim) in the occupied territories?

    Please also tell us what you would do to fight for your family and your own personal human rights? Or would you just be a good Palestinian and do as you were told, and give whatever is asked of you?

    I keep asking these questions and now this has escalated to a Muslim free world issue? Let's keep to this one topic shall we?

    I have to go read Cabi's links now. :)
    I answered this question before and I guess my answer was ignored, but I would fight with every means possible for my family, but I wouldn't attack busses full of women, children and everyone but military targets. Hamas and Hezbolah blow up cafes and shopping centers instead of military targets. If they would stick to attacking military targets instead of soft civilian locations, I would have a lot more respect for their story.
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