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  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    ahhhh... just so government can spend more.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
    This is crap. I don't know why they just raised the cigarette tax and leave cigars alone. I mean they'd make more money off of cigarettes anyway. Why not tax something else like oil companies or fast food... Makes sense to me.. Oh I know why don't these freaking states pump up manufacturing so they can make money again!!!!
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    why dont they just spend less? no taxes raised.
  • zeebrazeebra Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭
    This and half the taxes are complete BS!!!!!

    We all need to put the politicians and government in jail because they are the ones stealing from hard working people! It drive me crazy how much taxes they collect from everything!
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    I'll be the first to say it F.UCK New York!
    For years this state has been run by halfwit morons.

  • zeebrazeebra Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    why dont they just spend less? no taxes raised.
    Who spend less? If you are talking about the government......uhhhhhh.......uhhhhhhh.......uhhhhhhhhhhh........I think the term "When Hell Freezes Over" is still giving you hope, if ya know what I mean.
  • NYHCx516xNYHCx516x Posts: 728
    so glad i left NY 7 years ago.
  • zeebrazeebra Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
  • rwheelwrightrwheelwright Posts: 3,296
    We need to shrink the size of the government and cut spending. There are other ways to cut spending too. I know in NJ they are trying to cut raises for teachers. How about cutting the overtime for all the state employees like the road crews? Those guys know how to milk a job. 12 people show up, 2 of them work while the rest sit around. Then when the job doesn't get done during regular hours they have to work overtime. That's juts one idea. I see this every day. There is construction going on at the beginning of my street. I see them every morning with about 10 guys sitting around drinking coffee and 1 - 2 people working. Now, I don't want to see people loose money. If they aren't making enough money then maybe their salaries need to be increased but have the overtime cut!

    As for fast food tax, I believe NY is trying to pass that. They are also trying to tax soda, online purchases including downloads, etc... Gov. Paterson even had a no salt law passed after acknowledging that he doesn't know why it should be passed or have any facts as to the health benefits.
  • NYHCx516xNYHCx516x Posts: 728
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    zeebra:
    kuzi16:
    why dont they just spend less? no taxes raised.
    Who spend less? If you are talking about the government......uhhhhhh.......uhhhhhhh.......uhhhhhhhhhhh........I think the term "When Hell Freezes Over" is still giving you hope, if ya know what I mean.
    hell could freeze over...
  • rwheelwrightrwheelwright Posts: 3,296
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
  • zeebrazeebra Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭
    Oh trust me, they are working on that as we speak! They are losing billions on online taxes. I'm shocked it still not passed that
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
    I've heard of this going through the pipes. I will come one day.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
    I've heard of this going through the pipes. I will come one day.
    of course it will. the government believes that all money is theirs and they should have the right to it every time it moves.
  • wwhwangwwhwang Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    Well, New York, say bye-bye to all the cigar shops and the jobs and revenue that came with that. Now, people will either move or order online.
  • xmacroxmacro Posts: 3,402
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    You're a bit late, I'm afraid - NY already tried this. They were thinking of passing a law that would require big companies like Amazon to charge for in-State taxes every time someone in NY bought from them. Amazon told NY if they passed the law, that Amazon would drop all ties to NY and refuse to ship any goods in-State, so NY backed down.

    One other State actually passed a law like this (Virginia, I think) and IIRC, Amazon made good on their threat and pulled out of that State.

    So all you tobacco shops out there - C'MON DOWN TO SUNNY FLORIDA!! Play golf all year round, and enjoy the fact that Florida has no income tax!!
  • zeebrazeebra Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭
    xmacro:
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    You're a bit late, I'm afraid - NY already tried this. They were thinking of passing a law that would require big companies like Amazon to charge for in-State taxes every time someone in NY bought from them. Amazon told NY if they passed the law, that Amazon would drop all ties to NY and refuse to ship any goods in-State, so NY backed down.

    One other State actually passed a law like this (Virginia, I think) and IIRC, Amazon made good on their threat and pulled out of that State.

    So all you tobacco shops out there - C'MON DOWN TO SUNNY FLORIDA!! Play golf all year round, and enjoy the fact that Florida has no income tax!!
    Well if they pass that for all states, not just NY, what is amazon going to do? Stop selling to every state? I doubt it. The government is the largest crook, they make the mafia families look like babies compared to the % they collected. Trust me, when the govt. is ready, they will show amazon who is king. What does the govt. have to lose? They are not getting anything anyways..
  • xmacroxmacro Posts: 3,402
    zeebra:
    xmacro:
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    You're a bit late, I'm afraid - NY already tried this. They were thinking of passing a law that would require big companies like Amazon to charge for in-State taxes every time someone in NY bought from them. Amazon told NY if they passed the law, that Amazon would drop all ties to NY and refuse to ship any goods in-State, so NY backed down.

    One other State actually passed a law like this (Virginia, I think) and IIRC, Amazon made good on their threat and pulled out of that State.

    So all you tobacco shops out there - C'MON DOWN TO SUNNY FLORIDA!! Play golf all year round, and enjoy the fact that Florida has no income tax!!
    Well if they pass that for all states, not just NY, what is amazon going to do? Stop selling to every state? I doubt it. The government is the largest crook, they make the mafia families look like babies compared to the % they collected. Trust me, when the govt. is ready, they will show amazon who is king. What does the govt. have to lose? They are not getting anything anyways..
    They wouldn't do that!! I mean, the Gov't doesn't interfere with business, except, y'know . . . telecom, energy, auto, finance, housing . . . .

    Ugh, like Reagan once said, The philosophy of Gov't is this - If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.
  • FourtotheflushFourtotheflush Posts: 2,555
    zeebra:
    Oh trust me, they are working on that as we speak! They are losing billions on online taxes. I'm shocked it still not passed that
    And they can go back 7 years for it! Couple states subpoena'd Amazon.coms sales records in order to collect sales taxes. Im pretty sure that MA is on the list of states. Amazon is trying to block it w confidentiality etc.
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Posts: 583
    As far as out of state shipments and the seller not having to collect the tax, that is true. HOWEVER, something people need to remember is that YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PAY THE TAX ON THE GOODS IN YOUR STATE WHEN YOU FILE each year. If people were doing that, as they are supposed to, it would be a non-issue.

    That said, I am against most taxes on principal. I could not, however, in good conscience support taxing cigarettes and leaving other forms of tobacco alone. Things move along gradually far too often. To steal a line of reasoning from those who support the 2nd; first they tax cigarettes. I don't care because I don't smoke cigarettes. Then they tax chewing tobacco. I don't care because I don't chew tobacco. Then they tax pipe tobacco. I don't care because I don't smoke a pipe. Then they come after cigars. I care because I smoke cigars, but I don't have much of a voice because all the other tobacco users are already SOL. Think they are going to fight this one? Sin taxes are a devisive measure indeed. Often pushed as a way to promote health, morals, etc. In actuality they are a money grab. If enough people do stop using the product taxes go up again because the revenue base has decreased. I am not naive enough to think that we can get rid of taxes. However, I still believe in personal freedoms. If you want to tax something, I can wrap my head around that, as much as I might not like it. But, tax everything at the same rate.

    It is too easy to go after minority groups, especially unpopular ones on money grabs. The smaller the voice, the less opposition. What if the govt. wanted to hike up the taxes on, oh say something like water? How many people would go for that? Not too many, I think. Good old Ben Franklin, founding father, perhaps satanist, possible serial killer, and notorious whoreophile, had this great quote: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is an armed sheep contesting the vote." I don't condone satanism, whoremongering, murder, serial or otherwise, and don't suggest people resist tobacco taxes with lethal force. However the basic premise behind the quote holds true. Far too often (as if there is an acceptable level) those who can't fight back effectively are abused by the "democracy". I prefer, as I hope many others do, prefer liberty.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
    I've heard of this going through the pipes. I will come one day.
    of course it will. the government believes that all money is theirs and they should have the right to it every time it moves.
    More so is true of banks and any other company. Why do you think the govt doesn't go after them? It's simple, it's easier to go after us and we can't buy congress. And we have ourselves to blame for it. So yes you are right I guess in a way. Maybe if money is removed from our politics then things actually might get better.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
    One2gofst:
    As far as out of state shipments and the seller not having to collect the tax, that is true. HOWEVER, something people need to remember is that YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PAY THE TAX ON THE GOODS IN YOUR STATE WHEN YOU FILE each year. If people were doing that, as they are supposed to, it would be a non-issue.

    That said, I am against most taxes on principal. I could not, however, in good conscience support taxing cigarettes and leaving other forms of tobacco alone. Things move along gradually far too often. To steal a line of reasoning from those who support the 2nd; first they tax cigarettes. I don't care because I don't smoke cigarettes. Then they tax chewing tobacco. I don't care because I don't chew tobacco. Then they tax pipe tobacco. I don't care because I don't smoke a pipe. Then they come after cigars. I care because I smoke cigars, but I don't have much of a voice because all the other tobacco users are already SOL. Think they are going to fight this one? Sin taxes are a devisive measure indeed. Often pushed as a way to promote health, morals, etc. In actuality they are a money grab. If enough people do stop using the product taxes go up again because the revenue base has decreased. I am not naive enough to think that we can get rid of taxes. However, I still believe in personal freedoms. If you want to tax something, I can wrap my head around that, as much as I might not like it. But, tax everything at the same rate.

    It is too easy to go after minority groups, especially unpopular ones on money grabs. The smaller the voice, the less opposition. What if the govt. wanted to hike up the taxes on, oh say something like water? How many people would go for that? Not too many, I think. Good old Ben Franklin, founding father, perhaps satanist, possible serial killer, and notorious whoreophile, had this great quote: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is an armed sheep contesting the vote." I don't condone satanism, whoremongering, murder, serial or otherwise, and don't suggest people resist tobacco taxes with lethal force. However the basic premise behind the quote holds true. Far too often (as if there is an acceptable level) those who can't fight back effectively are abused by the "democracy". I prefer, as I hope many others do, prefer liberty.
    we don't have a democracy any more. but also cigars are much more expensive than a pack of cigs. that is why i feel they should be taxed much higher than cigars. and more people smoke them.
  • wwhwangwwhwang Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    In reality, the sin tax on alcohol and tobacco and any other tax on those products shouldn't be imposed. States just impose it to raise extra money (that they waste on certain things anyway) without upsetting the majority of the populace. This is "justified" discrimination at its best.
    The reasoning behind it is that tobacco and alcohol are unhealthy for you and should not be used. If that reasoning were to be used across the board, then perhaps there should be a tax on junk food, soft drinks, tanning beds (though there is one now), and anything else that people use.

    Additionally, though this raises money on the short term, it kills off jobs, livelihoods, and commerce. In the long run, they're killing their golden goose. While this is still happening, state government is pointing a finger at you like you're a retarded 2 year old telling you not to do anything fun while their other hand is in your pocket, taking yo' money.
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Posts: 583
    phobicsquirrel:
    One2gofst:
    As far as out of state shipments and the seller not having to collect the tax, that is true. HOWEVER, something people need to remember is that YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PAY THE TAX ON THE GOODS IN YOUR STATE WHEN YOU FILE each year. If people were doing that, as they are supposed to, it would be a non-issue.

    That said, I am against most taxes on principal. I could not, however, in good conscience support taxing cigarettes and leaving other forms of tobacco alone. Things move along gradually far too often. To steal a line of reasoning from those who support the 2nd; first they tax cigarettes. I don't care because I don't smoke cigarettes. Then they tax chewing tobacco. I don't care because I don't chew tobacco. Then they tax pipe tobacco. I don't care because I don't smoke a pipe. Then they come after cigars. I care because I smoke cigars, but I don't have much of a voice because all the other tobacco users are already SOL. Think they are going to fight this one? Sin taxes are a devisive measure indeed. Often pushed as a way to promote health, morals, etc. In actuality they are a money grab. If enough people do stop using the product taxes go up again because the revenue base has decreased. I am not naive enough to think that we can get rid of taxes. However, I still believe in personal freedoms. If you want to tax something, I can wrap my head around that, as much as I might not like it. But, tax everything at the same rate.

    It is too easy to go after minority groups, especially unpopular ones on money grabs. The smaller the voice, the less opposition. What if the govt. wanted to hike up the taxes on, oh say something like water? How many people would go for that? Not too many, I think. Good old Ben Franklin, founding father, perhaps satanist, possible serial killer, and notorious whoreophile, had this great quote: "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is an armed sheep contesting the vote." I don't condone satanism, whoremongering, murder, serial or otherwise, and don't suggest people resist tobacco taxes with lethal force. However the basic premise behind the quote holds true. Far too often (as if there is an acceptable level) those who can't fight back effectively are abused by the "democracy". I prefer, as I hope many others do, prefer liberty.
    we don't have a democracy any more. but also cigars are much more expensive than a pack of cigs. that is why i feel they should be taxed much higher than cigars. and more people smoke them.
    I wasn't going after you in particular, just putting in my $.02. Cigars, per stick, may be more expensive but daily cost could go either way depending on the particular smoker of each. Still, the decision to tax one over the other is arbitrary and based on individual bias. Therefore, I have a problem with it. I could make some very good arguments in favor of taxing cigars over cigarettes, but that would not be fair either. Believing, generally, in a slippery slope as I do, if folks are going to try to tax tobacco, I would rather it be across the board. It is equally asinine then, and has less of a chance of working.
  • betasynnbetasynn Posts: 1,249
    Wrote an article on this in my blog, and I think it's getting picked up and distributed to the Prometheus mailing list. I live in New York, and the real problem is that we, as cigar smokers, are too minor a force in NY to really make an impact. This tax will hurt EVERYONE, however, and I think that needs to be brought to light. This was a political move, a win-win for politicians because even if they do destroy businesses and reap virtually no taxes, an opponent can't point to it as a poor decision because "you can't put a price on health." The only thing we can do is just not buy cigars in New York. They need to feel the effects of their decision.
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Posts: 583
    True enough, as everything stands right now. I still stand by my belief that all related to an issue need to stand together or, as the quote goes, "all hang seperately."

    I personally believe it is NOT a political move, in that, without financial benefit, the very few who would change their stripes in order to vote for a candidate just because they support this measure. It is a finacial move by one of the worst financial units in the US. Maybe the problem is just as you state, that we have no political persons who won't view this as a poor decision. Whether it helps overall public health, which it won't, individuals are free to make their own decisions. I have no desire to dirty myself by engaging in professional politics. However, suspending that for a moment, if I were to engage in such activities I would surely address it as a poor decision.

    I am a strong 2nd supporter, to be sure. I think that others who support liberties that may be marginalized take a look at what such organizations have done. The idea that the few cannot win is not always true. There are candidates who have taken strong positions on what the media would have us belie is the "unpopular" side of things and have WON because there are so many people out there who want a voice, who are maybe otherwise not even likely to vote, and do so because they are so glad to see someone standing up for what is right! my suggestion would be to do SOMETHING, because if no one does, no one will ever know for sure.

    You are certainly correct in that is will hurt everyone, all the while helping no one, aside from those collecting revenue. However, buying from somewhere else will only benefit you until those other places adopt similar legislation. I don't believe that is our only choice, nor our best one. But that is merely my humble opinion.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    rwheelwright:
    NYHCx516x:
    zeebra:
    How does taxes affect ccom? I mean what do you guys have to pay taxes on? Inventory? Cause you dont pay taxes when shipped out of state, which I'm sure most of their business is.
    The tax hike was for NY state only, and ccom ships from PA. No affect i think.
    I wonder if people start ordering online if they will start to pursue the tax that is supposed to be paid to the state?
    DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
    I've heard of this going through the pipes. I will come one day.
    of course it will. the government believes that all money is theirs and they should have the right to it every time it moves.
    More so is true of banks and any other company. Why do you think the govt doesn't go after them? It's simple, it's easier to go after us and we can't buy congress. And we have ourselves to blame for it. So yes you are right I guess in a way. Maybe if money is removed from our politics then things actually might get better.
    iduno... my bank pays ME. my savings account gets interest, CDs get interest, I get a discount on my mortgage from my bank because i pay it online, heck i got $150 just to open an account there. i dont get fees because i play by the rules (both in credit cards and banks).
    come to think of it, banks are totally awesome. without them i would not be able to have all the great stuff i have worked hard for.
    unlike government, banks do not arbitrarily take "X"% of my income simply because i earn it. (income tax)Banks to dont take "X"% of every purchase just because i make that purchase (this cigar tax) . Banks cannot make a rule that have to spend my money in a specific way (like government did with mandatory health insurance)

    if the bank buys the government then the bank is violating rights.... ironically the governments job is to protect rights. but we all know that the government is not doing its job. the government is actually violating rights all the time.
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