Those Damn Liberals and Enviromental People...

So have anybody see a little film called GasLand? It's on HBO on demand and I hear it's on pbs. Anyway it's a documentary about a guy who gets a letter from a local gas company that wants the reserves on his land. Basically they offer him some low amount for each acre of land he owns and it comes out to be about 100,000 or so. Now he goes around to get opinions from other areas which this has already been done. Now this is where it gets horrible, the process that they use to get the gas out, "fracking" is causing contamination of the fresh water streams and the towns and people's water supply. But they deny it and falsify information. Many people can litterly light their water on fire that they get from their wells. People are getting sick and animals are dying and losing their hair and the company says it's because of telephone polls.

"Today, most of the remaining domestic reserves are so-called “unconventional” deposits trapped in shale, coal and sandstone formations. To free the gas, companies pump chemicals, sand and water into the ground under high pressure to fracture, or frac, the rock formations. Hydraulic fracturing fluids contain a toxic cocktail of petroleum distillates—benzene, toluene and other carcinogens (the precise recipe is a trade secret). The fractured formations are then dewatered to release the gas.
In one of the driest regions of the country, groundwater is being polluted, pumped to the surface and dumped into holding ponds to evaporate. No other industry could get away with this, but in 2005 Congress exempted gas drillers from provisions of the Safe Drinking Water Act by passing the “Halliburton loophole,” inserted into the law at the request of a former Halliburton executive, then vice president *** Cheney. The 2005 Energy Bill also exempted drillers from storm water runoff provisions of the Clean Water Act. And Congress has provided exemptions from certain provisions of the Clean Air Act, the National Environmental Policy Act and the Emergency Planning and Community Right to Know Act—allowing gas companies to avoid reporting their toxic emissions to the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) Toxics Release Inventory. " (exerpt from an article on natural gas)

Full Link--http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/Animals/Archives/2010/The-Dirty-Truth-Behind-Clean-Natural-Gas.aspx.
I recommend all of you watch this as this is scary stuff. I just happened to stumble on this while on demand, and I'm stunned. Between the stuff that the Oil industry is doing to our oceans and now this we will lose our water and environment and there won't be any turning back. If our water dies we die, and I don't understand why this is allowed to happen. I have to say that while I listen to the BS from the current congress on environmental concerns I want to cry, the republicans are not doing anything but blocking and are totally against the US from protecting itself and its citizens from these companies, and the dems or so varied and weak on coming together to bring something out that will really help this country.
BTW coal, gas, and nuclear is not going to help us, what is going to help us is to bring something new to the table and sadly we, the United States who lead the world most of the 20th century is becoming that guy in the last bunch of losers. And the sad thing is, nothing is being done about it. While we spend trillions of dollars for these mega banks, Wars, and other private companies our country, the US is falling so far behind other countries that we are going to get surpassed. We import so much and export so little. We have a fracturing working class, and our poor are getting larger and larger while the rich get richer and richer. The middle class is almost destroyed and what is there to show for? I mean a small group of elite ruling over the masses? Well I hope that all of us wake up one morning and realize that no matter how much money we have or what type of car we drive that we are going to die, and die in a horrible way. We've abused this planet and ourselves for greed and unfortunately nothing seems to change the minds of those who stand in the way of getting things better.
The republicans don't have any answers except for giving more tax breaks to huge transnational companies and to give them free reign to piliage our country, and the democrats are so divided that they are wasting time and whatever they bring out of commitee is so weak it isn't going to anything. What will it take? The fall of the United States? A world war? What? We just had the biggest environmental disaster in history and it was caused by a group of people who wanted to save a few bucks. We are in the longest war of our HISTORY, we gave Trillions of dollars to BANKS and Wallstreet, our agency which is suppose to regulate our currency is corrupt and handing out trillions of dollars of tax money to corporations without any regulation from congress... the list goes on, oh and our people are being destroyed, while it be due to no work, no home, not enough income; even the family structure has been damaged due to the breaking of wages and jobs. But as long as a few companies can lie and keep getting around laws due to their "donations" then we don't stand a chance. But hey everything that liberals tried to get put in place well all weren't liberals but most were are worth nothing now, and all because of the money and politicians that no longer represent the people that put them there.

Comments

  • xmacroxmacro Posts: 3,402
    Pheebs, if you ever publish one of these far-left stories, and cite to an actual, reputable newspaper instead of a left-leaning website with a political axe to grind, I'd be inclined to believe you. Otherwise, I call BS on this story - there'd be lawsuits filed instantaneously if this story were accurate
  • pnaylonpnaylon Posts: 214
    Being that my immediate family owns waterfront property in south louisiana, I feel like I have some authority when i say that the oil industry is probably last on the list of people that want to spill oil all over everything. Not only is that a ridiculous waste of profit, but it always prompts environmentalists to jump all over them and say the "evil oil companies are trying to kill off every animal on earth!!!"

    Now, this does not necessarily mean that I think BP is a bunch of incompetent hacks who have royally screwed my people because of their retardation, but at least they're throwing billions of dollars at fixing the problem and paying off local fishermen. The federal government has done nothing but a) impede the louisiana government's cleanup efforts, and b) put a moratorium on drilling, killing thousands more gulf coast jobs. Congrats guys. How about you put a higher tax on my cigars so you can create another **** government agency to *** up everything.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    xmacro:
    Pheebs, if you ever publish one of these far-left stories, and cite to an actual, reputable newspaper instead of a left-leaning website with a political axe to grind, I'd be inclined to believe you. Otherwise, I call BS on this story - there'd be lawsuits filed instantaneously if this story were accurate
    umm, I can find another place if you like but it doesn't negate the facts. I would find the actual bill but I doubt you'd read it. Besides it wouldn't matter what place I posted you call it a left wing place anyways... And actually how is this place supposedly a left wing place with politics in mind? Why is it that none of the so called agencies that republicans always go to never have anything to do with conserving our planet or anything else hell your side of the isle still wants to keep pumping all kinds of crap in our air. So let's just ignore everything because you and people like you automatically think it's a leftist idea? Hate to break your bubble but liberals are the only reason why we still have places with clean water, are imposing new ideas for fuel, actually anything that any progress in our society is because of your so called far left nut jobs. I don't know if you've ever listened to nutty liberals but they usually are for things such as manufacturing, keeping jobs for americans, a good working wage, freedom (to marry who one wants, to not have our phone tapped, not have us take our shoes off at the airport).. I can go on.
    Fracking is an actual process used and if you watch the documentary you might learn something. So instead of calling it BS maybe you should read what I put up, and maybe watch the show and then fact check it. Besides that Bill does do what is said in the article. And you do realize that any lawsuits that are brought against any large company like say the oil company lasts decades, look at the exxon spill in Alaska.
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,024 ✭✭
    So much anger from such a little squirrel!
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    "Today, most of the remaining domestic reserves are so-called “unconventional” deposits trapped in shale, coal and sandstone formations.
    i stopped reading ofter this. its not true at all.

    i can link you if you want but its common knowledge so i dont feel the need.

    we have plenty of conventional oil left. there are oil fields in the dakodas, texas, the gulf of mexico, off of both the at lantic and pacific shores, etc...
    we just arent able to drill for them due to government restrictions on where you can drill.

    i am all for a clean environment, and new renewable energy, and i dont want bad things to come from any drilling, mining, etc. there is a place for capitalism and freedom while still respecting the environment. the oil companies dont need to be attacked anymore than they are. oil needs to be made obsolete.

    there is also a way to do that without putting thousands, if not millions, out of work.

    i actually have no problem with people trying to get the environment clean. i want a clean environment. i just have a problem with the methodology used a good deal of the time. there are better ways to do it that dont violate rights, cost jobs, raise taxes, and otherwise piss people off.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    sorry as i was scrolling up to hit the button to get back to the forums i saw this
    phobicsquirrel:
    We just had the biggest environmental disaster in history
    uh... actually its not. a few of THESE were worse.
    and thats just oil.

    but generally speaking we are getting better at preventing oil spills according to THIS

    outside of oil, ever hear of Chernobyl?


    yes our current oil spill is bad, but it is not the worst ever. its not even the worst in the last 30 years (...yet. lets hope it doesnt get that bad)
  • xmacroxmacro Posts: 3,402
    phobicsquirrel:
    umm, I can find another place if you like but it doesn't negate the facts. I would find the actual bill but I doubt you'd read it. Besides it wouldn't matter what place I posted you call it a left wing place anyways... And actually how is this place supposedly a left wing place with politics in mind? Why is it that none of the so called agencies that republicans always go to never have anything to do with conserving our planet or anything else hell your side of the isle still wants to keep pumping all kinds of crap in our air.
    You're really pissing me off with this new post, Pheebs. You automatically assume I'm a republican, but I'm an independant. Right off the bat, you assume "Gee, if they disagree with me, they must be one of those evil rethuglicans!!111"

    Second, you refuse to cite to a reputable source, instead relying on hearsay and political websites for their source of information. Guess what? The NWF is a political organization with a certain ideology - they've got an agenda to advance, so they aren't disinterested. You can't point to a reputable newspaper or journalism source, and your entire frenzy in this matter is driven by a single unreputable source.
    phobicsquirrel:
    So let's just ignore everything because you and people like you automatically think it's a leftist idea? Hate to break your bubble but liberals are the only reason why we still have places with clean water, are imposing new ideas for fuel,actually anything that any progress in our society is because of your so called far left nut jobs. I don't know if you've ever listened to nutty liberals but they usually are for things such as manufacturing, keeping jobs for americans, a good working wage, freedom (to marry who one wants, to not have our phone tapped, not have us take our shoes off at the airport).. I can go on.
    Your complete moral righteousness is so out of control that it's astounding. You're actually crediting liberals with saving the envirnoment, the water, and the atmosphere, and pinning all the blame on republicans? Are you daft?! Do you really think the world is so black and white, with heroes and villians drawn along political lines? Do you really think that liberals are in favor of saving the world and conservatives are in favor of destroying it?

    If so, Pheebs, you really need to get away from these articles - your view of the world is like a comic book from the 50's - good guys vs. bad guys, libs vs consv's, good vs evil. Think for yourself a little, instead of just having a knee-jerk reaction that anyone who disagrees with you must be "one of those evil rethuglicans who want to wreck the world and make money" Until then, you really are just a very angry, boorish squirrel

    phobicsquirrel:
    Fracking is an actual process used and if you watch the documentary you might learn something. So instead of calling it BS maybe you should read what I put up, and maybe watch the show and then fact check it. Besides that Bill does do what is said in the article. And you do realize that any lawsuits that are brought against any large company like say the oil company lasts decades, look at the exxon spill in Alaska.
    I never denied that fracking is an actual process, so stop putting words in my mouth - I'm doubting that your article is accurate is regards to the rest of the story. Cite a source that doesn't count MoveOn.org as a donor or affiliate, and I'll be inclined to believe you

  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,561
    I have a buddy that fracs for a living, his company mostly uses diluted concrete. We have more problems from water stemming from cow piss than from oilfield chemicals.
  • HeavyHeavy Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭
    I work for an environmental consulting firm. I have used hydraulic fracturing in the area of a groundwater contamination plume caused by an industrial facility in the 1960s-70s (prior to environmental regulations). The hydrofrac process utilized a slurry of coarse sand and increased hydraulic conductivity in the area so that the materials we were injecting would react with all of the contaminants. The process worked exceptionally well, the plume was cleaned to below state required levels, and the site was redeveloped as a business park.

    So me and hydro-fracking cleaned up a nice little part of the environment. I'm an independent with strong republican leanings. Not sure about the political leanings of the hydro-frac equipment.

    If people are so concerned and pissed about environmental and energy issues, I suggest they put down the picket signs, go to school to become a scientist or engineer and actually do something to HELP rather than just B.ITCH.
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,561
    Heavy:
    I work for an environmental consulting firm. I have used hydraulic fracturing in the area of a groundwater contamination plume caused by an industrial facility in the 1960s-70s (prior to environmental regulations). The hydrofrac process utilized a slurry of coarse sand and increased hydraulic conductivity in the area so that the materials we were injecting would react with all of the contaminants. The process worked exceptionally well, the plume was cleaned to below state required levels, and the site was redeveloped as a business park.

    So me and hydro-fracking cleaned up a nice little part of the environment. I'm an independent with strong republican leanings. Not sure about the political leanings of the hydro-frac equipment.

    If people are so concerned and pissed about environmental and energy issues, I suggest they put down the picket signs, go to school to become a scientist or engineer and actually do something to HELP rather than just B.ITCH.
    *applauds*
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    kuzi16:
    sorry as i was scrolling up to hit the button to get back to the forums i saw this
    phobicsquirrel:
    We just had the biggest environmental disaster in history
    uh... actually its not. a few of THESE were worse.
    and thats just oil.

    but generally speaking we are getting better at preventing oil spills according to THIS

    outside of oil, ever hear of Chernobyl?


    yes our current oil spill is bad, but it is not the worst ever. its not even the worst in the last 30 years (...yet. lets hope it doesnt get that bad)
    Actually this damage in the gulf is worse than what your link showed. The thing is this is still gushing and it will continue to gush. If and a big IF, it can be contained between the oil and the chemicals it will stand as the worse environmental disaster. - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill-
    up to 2.5 million gallons a day. x that by how many days even if it's off by a million.

    Yes chenobyl was horrible however both are hard to really go head to head.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    xmacro:
    phobicsquirrel:
    umm, I can find another place if you like but it doesn't negate the facts. I would find the actual bill but I doubt you'd read it. Besides it wouldn't matter what place I posted you call it a left wing place anyways... And actually how is this place supposedly a left wing place with politics in mind? Why is it that none of the so called agencies that republicans always go to never have anything to do with conserving our planet or anything else hell your side of the isle still wants to keep pumping all kinds of crap in our air.
    You're really pissing me off with this new post, Pheebs. You automatically assume I'm a republican, but I'm an independant. Right off the bat, you assume "Gee, if they disagree with me, they must be one of those evil rethuglicans!!111"

    Second, you refuse to cite to a reputable source, instead relying on hearsay and political websites for their source of information. Guess what? The NWF is a political organization with a certain ideology - they've got an agenda to advance, so they aren't disinterested. You can't point to a reputable newspaper or journalism source, and your entire frenzy in this matter is driven by a single unreputable source.
    phobicsquirrel:
    So let's just ignore everything because you and people like you automatically think it's a leftist idea? Hate to break your bubble but liberals are the only reason why we still have places with clean water, are imposing new ideas for fuel,actually anything that any progress in our society is because of your so called far left nut jobs. I don't know if you've ever listened to nutty liberals but they usually are for things such as manufacturing, keeping jobs for americans, a good working wage, freedom (to marry who one wants, to not have our phone tapped, not have us take our shoes off at the airport).. I can go on.
    Your complete moral righteousness is so out of control that it's astounding. You're actually crediting liberals with saving the envirnoment, the water, and the atmosphere, and pinning all the blame on republicans? Are you daft?! Do you really think the world is so black and white, with heroes and villians drawn along political lines? Do you really think that liberals are in favor of saving the world and conservatives are in favor of destroying it?

    If so, Pheebs, you really need to get away from these articles - your view of the world is like a comic book from the 50's - good guys vs. bad guys, libs vs consv's, good vs evil. Think for yourself a little, instead of just having a knee-jerk reaction that anyone who disagrees with you must be "one of those evil rethuglicans who want to wreck the world and make money" Until then, you really are just a very angry, boorish squirrel

    phobicsquirrel:
    Fracking is an actual process used and if you watch the documentary you might learn something. So instead of calling it BS maybe you should read what I put up, and maybe watch the show and then fact check it. Besides that Bill does do what is said in the article. And you do realize that any lawsuits that are brought against any large company like say the oil company lasts decades, look at the exxon spill in Alaska.
    I never denied that fracking is an actual process, so stop putting words in my mouth - I'm doubting that your article is accurate is regards to the rest of the story. Cite a source that doesn't count MoveOn.org as a donor or affiliate, and I'll be inclined to believe you

    Give me a few bills in the last say 30 years that republicans have done to protect our way of life, meaning our environment and our economic structure? Granted not all republicans are to blame as if not all liberals art to praise, I'm just saying that all the current gop have done is undermine our sanctity whether it be the environment or our financial system. Btw whether or not this so called place is a left wing political spot, it doesn't negate the fact that the base of the article stands. Here's another article about this dangerous process that is being fought in New York - http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2256- Once again it's probably a liberal place you know, as name me a good conservative place that would report on this type of stuff. They still say that billions of tons of pollutants isn't harming our planet. Some other sources...-
    http://wilderness.org/content/fracking-safe-flaming-drinking-water-ought-give-clue

    http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-04-26/pennsylvania-fracking.html

    http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10003088/congressional-probe-into-natural-gas-fracking-the-first-step-toward-federal-regulation/

    http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/chemicals-used-in-fracking-often-a-mystery-at-spill-cleanup-time-1.858905

    http://www.propublica.org/feature/epa-chemicals-found-in-wyo.-drinking-water-might-be-from-fracking-825
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    Heavy:
    I work for an environmental consulting firm. I have used hydraulic fracturing in the area of a groundwater contamination plume caused by an industrial facility in the 1960s-70s (prior to environmental regulations). The hydrofrac process utilized a slurry of coarse sand and increased hydraulic conductivity in the area so that the materials we were injecting would react with all of the contaminants. The process worked exceptionally well, the plume was cleaned to below state required levels, and the site was redeveloped as a business park.

    So me and hydro-fracking cleaned up a nice little part of the environment. I'm an independent with strong republican leanings. Not sure about the political leanings of the hydro-frac equipment.

    If people are so concerned and pissed about environmental and energy issues, I suggest they put down the picket signs, go to school to become a scientist or engineer and actually do something to HELP rather than just B.ITCH.
    So would you say this is the same process that is used to release natural gas? I mean if it cleaned up the so called area that's good. Though what is going on in many rural areas across the country and god knows where else isn't. Maybe different companies go about it in different ways.. I dunno. Though the chemicals that make up what the NG uses to frack is astonishing..
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    this caught my eye
    xmacro:
    phobicsquirrel:
    So let's just ignore everything because you and people like you automatically think it's a leftist idea? Hate to break your bubble but liberals are the only reason why we still have places with clean water, are imposing new ideas for fuel,actually anything that any progress in our society is because of your so called far left nut jobs. I don't know if you've ever listened to nutty liberals but they usually are for things such as manufacturing, keeping jobs for americans, a good working wage, freedom (to marry who one wants, to not have our phone tapped, not have us take our shoes off at the airport).. I can go on.
    Your complete moral righteousness is so out of control that it's astounding. You're actually crediting liberals with saving the envirnoment, the water, and the atmosphere, and pinning all the blame on republicans? Are you daft?! Do you really think the world is so black and white, with heroes and villians drawn along political lines? Do you really think that liberals are in favor of saving the world and conservatives are in favor of destroying it?
    the number one contributor to wildlife preservation are "right-wing-gun-clinging-redneck-hunters" that dont want to see the wildlife they enjoy destroyed.
    also, 100% of all hunting license fees (at least in ohio) go to wildlife preservation.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    sorry as i was scrolling up to hit the button to get back to the forums i saw this
    phobicsquirrel:
    We just had the biggest environmental disaster in history
    uh... actually its not. a few of THESE were worse.
    and thats just oil.

    but generally speaking we are getting better at preventing oil spills according to THIS

    outside of oil, ever hear of Chernobyl?


    yes our current oil spill is bad, but it is not the worst ever. its not even the worst in the last 30 years (...yet. lets hope it doesnt get that bad)
    Actually this damage in the gulf is worse than what your link showed. The thing is this is still gushing and it will continue to gush. If and a big IF, it can be contained between the oil and the chemicals it will stand as the worse environmental disaster. - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill-
    up to 2.5 million gallons a day. x that by how many days even if it's off by a million.

    Yes chenobyl was horrible however both are hard to really go head to head.
    the page you linked is "404 - page not found"

    i wouldnt think you were making that one up, just another link would be great. i had yet to see that number. also, is that before or after the cap?
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    ... man BP sucks.
  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    fla-gypsy:
    So much anger from such a little squirrel!
    LOL And am I the only one who sees the humor in a post with the title of this one being being authored by a squirrel? :-D

  • mrpillowmrpillow Posts: 464
    kuzi16:
    this caught my eye
    xmacro:
    phobicsquirrel:
    So let's just ignore everything because you and people like you automatically think it's a leftist idea? Hate to break your bubble but liberals are the only reason why we still have places with clean water, are imposing new ideas for fuel,actually anything that any progress in our society is because of your so called far left nut jobs. I don't know if you've ever listened to nutty liberals but they usually are for things such as manufacturing, keeping jobs for americans, a good working wage, freedom (to marry who one wants, to not have our phone tapped, not have us take our shoes off at the airport).. I can go on.
    Your complete moral righteousness is so out of control that it's astounding. You're actually crediting liberals with saving the envirnoment, the water, and the atmosphere, and pinning all the blame on republicans? Are you daft?! Do you really think the world is so black and white, with heroes and villians drawn along political lines? Do you really think that liberals are in favor of saving the world and conservatives are in favor of destroying it?
    the number one contributor to wildlife preservation are "right-wing-gun-clinging-redneck-hunters" that dont want to see the wildlife they enjoy destroyed.
    also, 100% of all hunting license fees (at least in ohio) go to wildlife preservation.
    As an employee of a southeast US regional fishing/hunting supply chain, and a individual who issues fishing and hunting licenses on a daily basis, I can back Kuzi 100% in this statement. The Coastal Conservation Association, a group which I have been a member of my whole life, and a group that has more or less SAVED both the sport and commercial fishing idustries on the Gulf Coast here in Texas, is a group founded entirely on non-left wing practices. They believe that conservation is only achievable through the use of private enterprise, the efforts and technology of locally based companies and institutes, and the will and education of every law-abiding fisherman and wildlife enthusiast on the Coast.

    Legislation should not be an effort to fix a disastererous situation, but an acknowledgement of a independently achieved solution.
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