Mild, Medium, Full

Husker44Husker44 Posts: 172
What makes the difference in body?

The type of leaf? The age? The length of filler?

Im just trying to understand a bit as to how to know by description what is mild/med, med/full and full

Comments

  • docbp87docbp87 Posts: 3,521
    Husker44:
    What makes the difference in body? The type of leaf? The age? The length of filler? Im just trying to understand a bit as to how to know by description what is mild/med, med/full and full
    Well, descriptions will usually include strength. certain priming levels of leaves on the tobacco carry certain strength, Ligero being notoriously powerful. Type of tobacco, where it is grown, etc. all play into it as well.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    Husker44:
    What makes the difference in body? The type of leaf? The age? The length of filler? Im just trying to understand a bit as to how to know by description what is mild/med, med/full and full

    that is a great question.
    besides that most cigar descriptions will tell you if it is full mild or medium there are a few other ways of telling.

    all of the factors you listed play a roll except for length of filler. (as far as i know)



    lets see how short i can keep this...

    from the beginning...
    every strain of tobacco has a different strength to it. the tobacco that is used in pipes is different than the tobacco used in cigarettes is different than the tobacco used in cigars.
    the first way of having a more or less mild cigar is to use a strain of tobacco that is more mild or more full.
    Most cigar tobacco has been derived from cuban tobacco at some point or another. from there its been selected from one generation to the next to embody one trait or another. For instance, Connecticut Broadleaf is much more mild the classic Corojo.

    the second way to change the strength of the tobacco is by growing it in different ways. Shade grown tobacco has a smoother/milder quality to it because the sun is partially blocked, so the leaves cannot produce as many nutrients. conversely, sungrown tobacco will be stronger because the sun will allow the plant to have more nutrients. this thickens the leaf, and adds more flavor.

    another way to change the strength is how long the leaf is on the plant.
    when tobacco is harvested for cigars it is often done in primings. Primings are pairs (groups) of leaves on the plant. the lower on the plant the earlier they are picked. the earlier they are picked, the less time they have to soak up the sun and nutrients in the soil. therefore, they are lighter in body.
    the higher up the priming, the more body the tobacco leaf will have. Ligero is one of the top primings. it is well known to be one of the strongest leaves in a blend. this leaf is on the plant much longer than the seco, or valado, or any other priming (unless the carona leaves are used)

    if you leave the leaves on the plant so long that they begin to cure on the stalk then you are running into what couldl become Oscuro wrapper leaf. Many of the stronger blends have oscuro wrappers because of the extra time giving it more body and character.

    the soil also plays an important roll in strength. generally speaking, the richer the soil, the fuller the body. a few key nutrients do ply a roll, nitrogen being the most notable. Nitrogen increases nicotine content, plant yield, leaf width, weight per unit leaf area.

    region can play a roll as well but not so much more as in the past. new technology and fertilizers enable a farmer to manipulate this a bit. there are still generalizations that exist. Indonesia, the Dominican Republic, and Ecuador have been known to make good mild tobaccos, where as Nicaragua, Cuba, and Honduras have been known to produce a fuller bodied leaf.

    another huge influence on body is the curing and fermentation process. all tobacco needs to be cured. usually after the leaves have been cut off the stalk they are hung to cure. this is the traditional way of curing. another type of curing that can increase the body of a cigar is Stalk-curing. this is where the leaves are left on the stalk and not primed. when the leaves are on the stalk, they will steal more nutrients from the stalk as it cures, making a bolder taste, and fuller body.
    when it comes to fermentation, in very general terms, the more you ferment the tobacco the more it breaks down, the more mild it becomes.
    a maduro wrapper has been fermented and "cooked" in tight bales so much so that the sugars are drawn to the forefront and the color of the leaf darkens. this process smooths, calms, and sweetens the tobacco. the leaf is now more mild.
    it is very possible to "over ferment" tobacco, thus destroying essential oils.

    this leads right into age. the older a tobacco leaf is, the more the essential oils have had time to break down. this usually has a calming effect of the leaf. harsh notes are smoothed over. spice is reduced. body is tamed. a full bodied leaf will not be as full 18 years down the line. in fact, tobacco can over-age and lose all its flavor. a milder leaf may do this in less than 10 years. a fuller bodied leaf may take 20+ years.
    age does not just apply to raw leaf.
    cigars, once rolled will continue to age until they are smoked. the same things happen to a cigar as an individual leaf. they become mild as they age. it is again possible to over age a cigar.

    blending is critical in determining body of a cigar. in short, the milder the tobacco used, the milder the cigar.
    it is possible to have a mild body tobacco with full flavor paired up in a blend with tobacco that has very little flavor but a ton of body.
    these different blends need to be balanced with flavor and can make it difficult to get a desired flavor in a cigar.

    this is again why so few people are master blenders.


  • Husker44Husker44 Posts: 172
    Thank you that was very helpful.
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,024 ✭✭
    kuzi16:
    Husker44:
    What makes the difference in body? The type of leaf? The age? The length of filler? Im just trying to understand a bit as to how to know by description what is mild/med, med/full and full

    that is a great question.
    besides that most cigar descriptions will tell you if it is full mild or medium there are a few other ways of telling.

    all of the factors you listed play a roll except for length of filler. (as far as i know)



    lets see how short i can keep this...

    from the beginning...
    every strain of tobacco has a different strength to it. the tobacco that is used in pipes is different than the tobacco used in cigarettes is different than the tobacco used in cigars.
    the first way of having a more or less mild cigar is to use a strain of tobacco that is more mild or more full.
    Most cigar tobacco has been derived from cuban tobacco at some point or another. from there its been selected from one generation to the next to embody one trait or another. For instance, Connecticut Broadleaf is much more mild the classic Corojo.

    the second way to change the strength of the tobacco is by growing it in different ways. Shade grown tobacco has a smoother/milder quality to it because the sun is partially blocked, so the leaves cannot produce as many nutrients. conversely, sungrown tobacco will be stronger because the sun will allow the plant to have more nutrients. this thickens the leaf, and adds more flavor.

    another way to change the strength is how long the leaf is on the plant.
    when tobacco is harvested for cigars it is often done in primings. Primings are pairs (groups) of leaves on the plant. the lower on the plant the earlier they are picked. the earlier they are picked, the less time they have to soak up the sun and nutrients in the soil. therefore, they are lighter in body.
    the higher up the priming, the more body the tobacco leaf will have. Ligero is one of the top primings. it is well known to be one of the strongest leaves in a blend. this leaf is on the plant much longer than the seco, or valado, or any other priming (unless the carona leaves are used)

    if you leave the leaves on the plant so long that they begin to cure on the stalk then you are running into what couldl become Oscuro wrapper leaf. Many of the stronger blends have oscuro wrappers because of the extra time giving it more body and character.

    the soil also plays an important roll in strength. generally speaking, the richer the soil, the fuller the body. a few key nutrients do ply a roll, nitrogen being the most notable. Nitrogen increases nicotine content, plant yield, leaf width, weight per unit leaf area.

    region can play a roll as well but not so much more as in the past. new technology and fertilizers enable a farmer to manipulate this a bit. there are still generalizations that exist. Indonesia, the Dominican Republic, and Ecuador have been known to make good mild tobaccos, where as Nicaragua, Cuba, and Honduras have been known to produce a fuller bodied leaf.

    another huge influence on body is the curing and fermentation process. all tobacco needs to be cured. usually after the leaves have been cut off the stalk they are hung to cure. this is the traditional way of curing. another type of curing that can increase the body of a cigar is Stalk-curing. this is where the leaves are left on the stalk and not primed. when the leaves are on the stalk, they will steal more nutrients from the stalk as it cures, making a bolder taste, and fuller body.
    when it comes to fermentation, in very general terms, the more you ferment the tobacco the more it breaks down, the more mild it becomes.
    a maduro wrapper has been fermented and "cooked" in tight bales so much so that the sugars are drawn to the forefront and the color of the leaf darkens. this process smooths, calms, and sweetens the tobacco. the leaf is now more mild.
    it is very possible to "over ferment" tobacco, thus destroying essential oils.

    this leads right into age. the older a tobacco leaf is, the more the essential oils have had time to break down. this usually has a calming effect of the leaf. harsh notes are smoothed over. spice is reduced. body is tamed. a full bodied leaf will not be as full 18 years down the line. in fact, tobacco can over-age and lose all its flavor. a milder leaf may do this in less than 10 years. a fuller bodied leaf may take 20+ years.
    age does not just apply to raw leaf.
    cigars, once rolled will continue to age until they are smoked. the same things happen to a cigar as an individual leaf. they become mild as they age. it is again possible to over age a cigar.

    blending is critical in determining body of a cigar. in short, the milder the tobacco used, the milder the cigar.
    it is possible to have a mild body tobacco with full flavor paired up in a blend with tobacco that has very little flavor but a ton of body.
    these different blends need to be balanced with flavor and can make it difficult to get a desired flavor in a cigar.

    this is again why so few people are master blenders.


    Yeah, what he said, LOL
  • One2gofstOne2gofst Posts: 583
    kuzi16:
    Husker44:
    What makes the difference in body? The type of leaf? The age? The length of filler? Im just trying to understand a bit as to how to know by description what is mild/med, med/full and full

    that is a great question.
    besides that most cigar descriptions will tell you if it is full mild or medium there are a few other ways of telling.

    all of the factors you listed play a roll except for length of filler. (as far as i know)



    lets see how short i can keep this...

    from the beginning...
    every strain of tobacco has a different strength to it. the tobacco that is used in pipes is different than the tobacco used in cigarettes is different than the tobacco used in cigars.
    the first way of having a more or less mild cigar is to use a strain of tobacco that is more mild or more full.
    Most cigar tobacco has been derived from cuban tobacco at some point or another. from there its been selected from one generation to the next to embody one trait or another. For instance, Connecticut Broadleaf is much more mild the classic Corojo.

    the second way to change the strength of the tobacco is by growing it in different ways. Shade grown tobacco has a smoother/milder quality to it because the sun is partially blocked, so the leaves cannot produce as many nutrients. conversely, sungrown tobacco will be stronger because the sun will allow the plant to have more nutrients. this thickens the leaf, and adds more flavor.

    another way to change the strength is how long the leaf is on the plant.
    when tobacco is harvested for cigars it is often done in primings. Primings are pairs (groups) of leaves on the plant. the lower on the plant the earlier they are picked. the earlier they are picked, the less time they have to soak up the sun and nutrients in the soil. therefore, they are lighter in body.
    the higher up the priming, the more body the tobacco leaf will have. Ligero is one of the top primings. it is well known to be one of the strongest leaves in a blend. this leaf is on the plant much longer than the seco, or valado, or any other priming (unless the carona leaves are used)

    if you leave the leaves on the plant so long that they begin to cure on the stalk then you are running into what couldl become Oscuro wrapper leaf. Many of the stronger blends have oscuro wrappers because of the extra time giving it more body and character.

    the soil also plays an important roll in strength. generally speaking, the richer the soil, the fuller the body. a few key nutrients do ply a roll, nitrogen being the most notable. Nitrogen increases nicotine content, plant yield, leaf width, weight per unit leaf area.

    region can play a roll as well but not so much more as in the past. new technology and fertilizers enable a farmer to manipulate this a bit. there are still generalizations that exist. Indonesia, the Dominican Republic, and Ecuador have been known to make good mild tobaccos, where as Nicaragua, Cuba, and Honduras have been known to produce a fuller bodied leaf.

    another huge influence on body is the curing and fermentation process. all tobacco needs to be cured. usually after the leaves have been cut off the stalk they are hung to cure. this is the traditional way of curing. another type of curing that can increase the body of a cigar is Stalk-curing. this is where the leaves are left on the stalk and not primed. when the leaves are on the stalk, they will steal more nutrients from the stalk as it cures, making a bolder taste, and fuller body.
    when it comes to fermentation, in very general terms, the more you ferment the tobacco the more it breaks down, the more mild it becomes.
    a maduro wrapper has been fermented and "cooked" in tight bales so much so that the sugars are drawn to the forefront and the color of the leaf darkens. this process smooths, calms, and sweetens the tobacco. the leaf is now more mild.
    it is very possible to "over ferment" tobacco, thus destroying essential oils.

    this leads right into age. the older a tobacco leaf is, the more the essential oils have had time to break down. this usually has a calming effect of the leaf. harsh notes are smoothed over. spice is reduced. body is tamed. a full bodied leaf will not be as full 18 years down the line. in fact, tobacco can over-age and lose all its flavor. a milder leaf may do this in less than 10 years. a fuller bodied leaf may take 20+ years.
    age does not just apply to raw leaf.
    cigars, once rolled will continue to age until they are smoked. the same things happen to a cigar as an individual leaf. they become mild as they age. it is again possible to over age a cigar.

    blending is critical in determining body of a cigar. in short, the milder the tobacco used, the milder the cigar.
    it is possible to have a mild body tobacco with full flavor paired up in a blend with tobacco that has very little flavor but a ton of body.
    these different blends need to be balanced with flavor and can make it difficult to get a desired flavor in a cigar.

    this is again why so few people are master blenders.


    MY NINJA!
  • KriegKrieg Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭
    Soon as I read the first post, I knew this would have been right up Kuzi's ally. good info!
  • sightunseensightunseen Posts: 2,130
    If we ever get sticky threads on the forums, I vote that some of Kuzi's "cigar 101" threads be on there. Great explanation.
  • jlmartajlmarta 50 miles from ParadisePosts: 7,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    Husker44:
    What makes the difference in body? The type of leaf? The age? The length of filler? Im just trying to understand a bit as to how to know by description what is mild/med, med/full and full

    that is a great question.
    besides that most cigar descriptions will tell you if it is full mild or medium there are a few other ways of telling.

    all of the factors you listed play a roll except for length of filler. (as far as i know)



    lets see how short i can keep this...

    from the beginning...
    every strain of tobacco has a different strength to it. the tobacco that is used in pipes is different than the tobacco used in cigarettes is different than the tobacco used in cigars.
    the first way of having a more or less mild cigar is to use a strain of tobacco that is more mild or more full.
    Most cigar tobacco has been derived from cuban tobacco at some point or another. from there its been selected from one generation to the next to embody one trait or another. For instance, Connecticut Broadleaf is much more mild the classic Corojo.

    the second way to change the strength of the tobacco is by growing it in different ways. Shade grown tobacco has a smoother/milder quality to it because the sun is partially blocked, so the leaves cannot produce as many nutrients. conversely, sungrown tobacco will be stronger because the sun will allow the plant to have more nutrients. this thickens the leaf, and adds more flavor.

    another way to change the strength is how long the leaf is on the plant.
    when tobacco is harvested for cigars it is often done in primings. Primings are pairs (groups) of leaves on the plant. the lower on the plant the earlier they are picked. the earlier they are picked, the less time they have to soak up the sun and nutrients in the soil. therefore, they are lighter in body.
    the higher up the priming, the more body the tobacco leaf will have. Ligero is one of the top primings. it is well known to be one of the strongest leaves in a blend. this leaf is on the plant much longer than the seco, or valado, or any other priming (unless the carona leaves are used)

    if you leave the leaves on the plant so long that they begin to cure on the stalk then you are running into what couldl become Oscuro wrapper leaf. Many of the stronger blends have oscuro wrappers because of the extra time giving it more body and character.

    the soil also plays an important roll in strength. generally speaking, the richer the soil, the fuller the body. a few key nutrients do ply a roll, nitrogen being the most notable. Nitrogen increases nicotine content, plant yield, leaf width, weight per unit leaf area.

    region can play a roll as well but not so much more as in the past. new technology and fertilizers enable a farmer to manipulate this a bit. there are still generalizations that exist. Indonesia, the Dominican Republic, and Ecuador have been known to make good mild tobaccos, where as Nicaragua, Cuba, and Honduras have been known to produce a fuller bodied leaf.

    another huge influence on body is the curing and fermentation process. all tobacco needs to be cured. usually after the leaves have been cut off the stalk they are hung to cure. this is the traditional way of curing. another type of curing that can increase the body of a cigar is Stalk-curing. this is where the leaves are left on the stalk and not primed. when the leaves are on the stalk, they will steal more nutrients from the stalk as it cures, making a bolder taste, and fuller body.
    when it comes to fermentation, in very general terms, the more you ferment the tobacco the more it breaks down, the more mild it becomes.
    a maduro wrapper has been fermented and "cooked" in tight bales so much so that the sugars are drawn to the forefront and the color of the leaf darkens. this process smooths, calms, and sweetens the tobacco. the leaf is now more mild.
    it is very possible to "over ferment" tobacco, thus destroying essential oils.

    this leads right into age. the older a tobacco leaf is, the more the essential oils have had time to break down. this usually has a calming effect of the leaf. harsh notes are smoothed over. spice is reduced. body is tamed. a full bodied leaf will not be as full 18 years down the line. in fact, tobacco can over-age and lose all its flavor. a milder leaf may do this in less than 10 years. a fuller bodied leaf may take 20+ years.
    age does not just apply to raw leaf.
    cigars, once rolled will continue to age until they are smoked. the same things happen to a cigar as an individual leaf. they become mild as they age. it is again possible to over age a cigar.

    blending is critical in determining body of a cigar. in short, the milder the tobacco used, the milder the cigar.
    it is possible to have a mild body tobacco with full flavor paired up in a blend with tobacco that has very little flavor but a ton of body.
    these different blends need to be balanced with flavor and can make it difficult to get a desired flavor in a cigar.

    this is again why so few people are master blenders.




    WOW!! I am awed!

    Marty

  • HeavyHeavy Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    Husker44:
    What makes the difference in body? The type of leaf? The age? The length of filler? Im just trying to understand a bit as to how to know by description what is mild/med, med/full and full

    that is a great question.
    besides that most cigar descriptions will tell you if it is full mild or medium there are a few other ways of telling.

    all of the factors you listed play a roll except for length of filler. (as far as i know)



    lets see how short i can keep this...

    from the beginning...
    every strain of tobacco has a different strength to it. the tobacco that is used in pipes is different than the tobacco used in cigarettes is different than the tobacco used in cigars.
    the first way of having a more or less mild cigar is to use a strain of tobacco that is more mild or more full.
    Most cigar tobacco has been derived from cuban tobacco at some point or another. from there its been selected from one generation to the next to embody one trait or another. For instance, Connecticut Broadleaf is much more mild the classic Corojo.

    the second way to change the strength of the tobacco is by growing it in different ways. Shade grown tobacco has a smoother/milder quality to it because the sun is partially blocked, so the leaves cannot produce as many nutrients. conversely, sungrown tobacco will be stronger because the sun will allow the plant to have more nutrients. this thickens the leaf, and adds more flavor.

    another way to change the strength is how long the leaf is on the plant.
    when tobacco is harvested for cigars it is often done in primings. Primings are pairs (groups) of leaves on the plant. the lower on the plant the earlier they are picked. the earlier they are picked, the less time they have to soak up the sun and nutrients in the soil. therefore, they are lighter in body.
    the higher up the priming, the more body the tobacco leaf will have. Ligero is one of the top primings. it is well known to be one of the strongest leaves in a blend. this leaf is on the plant much longer than the seco, or valado, or any other priming (unless the carona leaves are used)

    if you leave the leaves on the plant so long that they begin to cure on the stalk then you are running into what couldl become Oscuro wrapper leaf. Many of the stronger blends have oscuro wrappers because of the extra time giving it more body and character.

    the soil also plays an important roll in strength. generally speaking, the richer the soil, the fuller the body. a few key nutrients do ply a roll, nitrogen being the most notable. Nitrogen increases nicotine content, plant yield, leaf width, weight per unit leaf area.

    region can play a roll as well but not so much more as in the past. new technology and fertilizers enable a farmer to manipulate this a bit. there are still generalizations that exist. Indonesia, the Dominican Republic, and Ecuador have been known to make good mild tobaccos, where as Nicaragua, Cuba, and Honduras have been known to produce a fuller bodied leaf.

    another huge influence on body is the curing and fermentation process. all tobacco needs to be cured. usually after the leaves have been cut off the stalk they are hung to cure. this is the traditional way of curing. another type of curing that can increase the body of a cigar is Stalk-curing. this is where the leaves are left on the stalk and not primed. when the leaves are on the stalk, they will steal more nutrients from the stalk as it cures, making a bolder taste, and fuller body.
    when it comes to fermentation, in very general terms, the more you ferment the tobacco the more it breaks down, the more mild it becomes.
    a maduro wrapper has been fermented and "cooked" in tight bales so much so that the sugars are drawn to the forefront and the color of the leaf darkens. this process smooths, calms, and sweetens the tobacco. the leaf is now more mild.
    it is very possible to "over ferment" tobacco, thus destroying essential oils.

    this leads right into age. the older a tobacco leaf is, the more the essential oils have had time to break down. this usually has a calming effect of the leaf. harsh notes are smoothed over. spice is reduced. body is tamed. a full bodied leaf will not be as full 18 years down the line. in fact, tobacco can over-age and lose all its flavor. a milder leaf may do this in less than 10 years. a fuller bodied leaf may take 20+ years.
    age does not just apply to raw leaf.
    cigars, once rolled will continue to age until they are smoked. the same things happen to a cigar as an individual leaf. they become mild as they age. it is again possible to over age a cigar.

    blending is critical in determining body of a cigar. in short, the milder the tobacco used, the milder the cigar.
    it is possible to have a mild body tobacco with full flavor paired up in a blend with tobacco that has very little flavor but a ton of body.
    these different blends need to be balanced with flavor and can make it difficult to get a desired flavor in a cigar.

    this is again why so few people are master blenders.


    Damn man, that's exactly what I was going to say...j/k. Always enjoy reading your informative posts like this one.
  • docbp87docbp87 Posts: 3,521
    And once again Kuzi proves that he is not a person, but rather a computer program that spits out ridiculous amounts of knowledge when needed.
  • Hawk55Hawk55 Posts: 846
    Hey Kuz...I know you must keep this explanation to cut and paste. LOL It is always the good one for this question. PM me.
  • Hawk55Hawk55 Posts: 846
    +1 ROFL
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,152
    Nice short explanation kuz.
  • KriegKrieg Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭
    madurofan:
    Nice short explanation kuz.
    maddy's back? Hell must have froze over!! jk ;)
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    Hawk55:
    Hey Kuz...I know you must keep this explanation to cut and paste. LOL It is always the good one for this question. PM me.
    this is now my latest post in the blending 101 thread.
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