Too Much Bureaucracy?

Here's my attempt at a political thread, though this is more of a survey than anything else.

However you identify your political leanings, I think something that everyone can agree with is that any bureaucracy runs the risk of being inflated, thus reducing efficiency and increasing costs. The question is, which government programs or agencies should be discontinued/disbanded?

Comments

  • ljlljl Posts: 819
    Oddly, I have just been mulling this over. HOW to control government spending. I heard a radio program the other night about how for the first time in history there are now more College administrators then there are faculty. Interesting how quickly the concept of bureaucracy can spread...

    Still thinking about your question though. I'll post something once I have a thought together - nobody hold their breath!!
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    Social Security, hands down. And to keep people from crying, send them one last big lump sum check.

  • wwhwangwwhwang Ottawa, ON, CanadaPosts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    sightunseen:
    Here's my attempt at a political thread, though this is more of a survey than anything else.

    However you identify your political leanings, I think something that everyone can agree with is that any bureaucracy runs the risk of being inflated, thus reducing efficiency and increasing costs. The question is, which government programs or agencies should be discontinued/disbanded?
    One thing that should be discontinued is the subsidy program for wool. The subsidy was started during the Civil War as a way to encourage people to raise sheep for the wool, since uniforms, blankets, and other military supplies were made of wool. Today though, the only wool used in the military today are for the old, cheap green blankets and berets, I think. It's just a waste of money now, since most of the war effort doesn't revolve around wool anymore.

    Not a program or agency, really, but I think Congress should be severely limited in its powers and rights. If the Constitution is a powerless joke anywhere in America, it's in Congress. They have the power to give themselves a pay raise (which they do every year), target specific groups for extra taxes and limitation of rights, divert tax dollars to whatever program they wish with no consequences, and destroy the economy by strangling companies with taxes, restrictions, and regulations so that no one hires anymore. In many ways, Congress is much more powerful than the President and the Supreme Court, since they can override presidential vetoes, shoot down programs or bills that the president wants, hinder the president's existing programs by cutting off funding and support, ignore the president altogether, and the supreme court doesn't rule against congress most of the time.

    Anyone that thinks that Congress was meant to abuse any of these powers or make up their own powers by our founding fathers was lied to in school.
  • jpclotfelterjpclotfelter Posts: 294
    When the day of reckoning comes, and it will...soon, there should be no government agency or program off the table when it comes to serious cuts. Even the military will need a good hard look at what programs are necessary. There is plenty of fat that can be cut in all levels of government from the Federal all the way down to your local municipalities.

    I would start by outlawing labor unions in the public sector.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,777 ✭✭✭
    I wish I knew even where to start answering this question, but I fear it would take days to name all the areas and research that would take me years. The first couple of things that come to mind to cut some funding for(not necessarily agencies or to kill it entirely) however are the D.A.R.E. program and the military/defense budget.
  • lilwing88lilwing88 ChitownPosts: 2,812 ✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    I wish I knew even where to start answering this question, but I fear it would take days to name all the areas and research that would take me years. The first couple of things that come to mind to cut some funding for(not necessarily agencies or to kill it entirely) however are the D.A.R.E. program and the military/defense budget.
    Shocker..... No one expected you to say Welfare or Social Security. LOL! The D.A.R.E. program has already been downsized and funding has been cut due to deep cuts in Homeland Security spending in 2009....... So, wish granted.

    But anywhoos...... I think one thing that needs to be mentioned is that the looming bureaucratic expansion of Health Care will definitely NOT be a good thing.
    Guns don't kill people, Daddies with pretty daughters do…..
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,777 ✭✭✭
    Hey Wing-----how bout you let me speak my peace this time chief and worry about your own posting, ok? I could get into the military industrial complex and how much of every dollar goes to defense and useless upgrades to keep the contractors happy if you woudl like---but just posting two things. I didnt say the list was all inclusive and am sorry you dont like my ideas not matching your's...Im one to have my own opinions thanks bro.
  • lilwing88lilwing88 ChitownPosts: 2,812 ✭✭✭
    Oh c'mon, Vulch.... How could I resist? What? Bump, set but no spike? Where's the fun in that? BTW, I wasn't arguing your picks. I actually agree, to an extent.
    Guns don't kill people, Daddies with pretty daughters do…..
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,777 ✭✭✭
    Only because your from my hometown wing:)
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,132
    Vulchor:
    I wish I knew even where to start answering this question, but I fear it would take days to name all the areas and research that would take me years. The first couple of things that come to mind to cut some funding for(not necessarily agencies or to kill it entirely) however are the D.A.R.E. program and the military/defense budget.
    These are actually a couple that I agree with Vulch! Not the first places I would cut, but two that do need to be totally reworked. Of course the same applies for almost every single program the government has... This would be a very daunting task to take on and would take much more time than I have this afternoon...
  • JdoraisJdorais Posts: 653
    I think a good starting point is to cut budget of THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT (yes, military too) by 1%.
  • sightunseensightunseen Posts: 2,130
    Jdorais:
    I think a good starting point is to cut budget of THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT (yes, military too) by 1%.
    Haha, I almost missed the "1%" at the end of your sentence.
  • vegassparkyvegassparky Posts: 365
    how about re-working taxes. make everyone pay 20%. no tax breaks. this has been a economic thought for years. number crunching shows that the gov. would be able to pay the national debt back., and all gov. ran programs would still be in good shape . if you look at what your paying now its alot more than 33% of your income. and if everyone paid the same precent we could save money by cutting half of the I.R.S out of the system. years ago this was a theory at 15%. 20% would pad it
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    Any thing that's meant to redistribute wealth. (I know this is a lot at this point but that's as specific as it needs to be.)
  • sightunseensightunseen Posts: 2,130
    vegassparky:
    how about re-working taxes. make everyone pay 20%. no tax breaks. this has been a economic thought for years. number crunching shows that the gov. would be able to pay the national debt back., and all gov. ran programs would still be in good shape . if you look at what your paying now its alot more than 33% of your income. and if everyone paid the same precent we could save money by cutting half of the I.R.S out of the system. years ago this was a theory at 15%. 20% would pad it
    A flat tax would be really simple, but I think it's a regressive tax that would put (relatively) poorer people at a higher disadvantage.
  • wwhwangwwhwang Ottawa, ON, CanadaPosts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    sightunseen:
    vegassparky:
    how about re-working taxes. make everyone pay 20%. no tax breaks. this has been a economic thought for years. number crunching shows that the gov. would be able to pay the national debt back., and all gov. ran programs would still be in good shape . if you look at what your paying now its alot more than 33% of your income. and if everyone paid the same precent we could save money by cutting half of the I.R.S out of the system. years ago this was a theory at 15%. 20% would pad it
    A flat tax would be really simple, but I think it's a regressive tax that would put (relatively) poorer people at a higher disadvantage.
    The poorer people aren't the ones that hire people though :P Businesses won't hire if taxes keep climbing and red tape keeps getting longer.

    But in any case, taxes need to be reworked, tort reform needs to be effective (any system that allows people to sue endlessly without penalty or reason is broken), and Congress needs to be separated from anything monetary. It's the biggest black hole for our tax dollars, anyway. More tax dollars for continuously diminishing rights = Wtf?
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    vegassparky:
    how about re-working taxes. make everyone pay 20%. no tax breaks. this has been a economic thought for years. number crunching shows that the gov. would be able to pay the national debt back., and all gov. ran programs would still be in good shape . if you look at what your paying now its alot more than 33% of your income. and if everyone paid the same precent we could save money by cutting half of the I.R.S out of the system. years ago this was a theory at 15%. 20% would pad it
    How bout just stopping all tax refunds? Not that I don't like your idea it's just another thought.
  • sightunseensightunseen Posts: 2,130
    wwhwang:
    sightunseen:
    vegassparky:
    how about re-working taxes. make everyone pay 20%. no tax breaks. this has been a economic thought for years. number crunching shows that the gov. would be able to pay the national debt back., and all gov. ran programs would still be in good shape . if you look at what your paying now its alot more than 33% of your income. and if everyone paid the same precent we could save money by cutting half of the I.R.S out of the system. years ago this was a theory at 15%. 20% would pad it
    A flat tax would be really simple, but I think it's a regressive tax that would put (relatively) poorer people at a higher disadvantage.
    The poorer people aren't the ones that hire people though :P Businesses won't hire if taxes keep climbing and red tape keeps getting longer.

    But in any case, taxes need to be reworked, tort reform needs to be effective (any system that allows people to sue endlessly without penalty or reason is broken), and Congress needs to be separated from anything monetary. It's the biggest black hole for our tax dollars, anyway. Giving people our tax dollars isn't really a fair trade when all you get is your rights taken away every year.
    True that poorer people are not the ones hiring, but a flat tax of 20% would affect a family making $50k a year more versus a family making $500k a year. I agree that small-business owners need an incentive to stay open and a flat-tax would alleviate their concerns.

    I'm with you on saying taxes need to be reworked and your comment for tort reform couldn't have come at a better time. Out-of-control lawsuits have raised the cost of goods and services for everyone and have flooded the legal system with frivolous cases.
  • vegassparkyvegassparky Posts: 365
    this kind taxation helps the poor more. they pay more than 30 % now. what could you do with 10% more of your income. and then do away with tax returns. Rich people will make more jobs. they want to stay rich right. if you create jobs., then other people are working to make you money. actors and other famous people write public appearances off on there taxes ( i know. i run a non- profit orginization ) this is wrong no tax brakes. if you want to make a million, pay taxes for a million. yes giving money to non- profits does give tax brakes and i deal with it all the time. and some people only give for tax brakes. MY wife and I have a small business that she runs. I work a 40 + hour work week, thank god for that blessing, and we pay our taxes every years. i havent seen a return in 8 years. so what if i dont ever again. at least the poor and needy could keep alittle more money. alittle bit can go a long way with the right state of mind.
  • rossdavey2rossdavey2 Posts: 979
    I know we have all been talking about taxes, but I got another veiw point.I've lived in the US for 5 years now. Always been here legally. Work when my visa would allow.
    So the start of 2009 I get married to an american woman. We start the whole "green card thing". I have to pay a butt load of money to get the paperwork and get it through the INS. They said 30 days and we will have you a temp work permit till the green card is sorted. Safe to say it takes 9 months for the temp work permit. The whole time I am not working for nearly the first year of our marriage. I get offered good jobs that I can't take.

    the problem was some A**hole at the INS got my paperwork. cashed the checks and lost a few of the sheets. Over the 9 months they lost everything at least once apart for the money I gave them.
    All we ever heard was it's someone else fault. First they tried to blame me. saying I didn't send in all the stuff needed. I had photo copies of everything I sent ,recorded mail, and the checks where attached to each form.
    That is out tax money hard at work.
  • lilwing88lilwing88 ChitownPosts: 2,812 ✭✭✭
    rossdavey2:
    I know we have all been talking about taxes, but I got another veiw point.I've lived in the US for 5 years now. Always been here legally. Work when my visa would allow.
    So the start of 2009 I get married to an american woman. We start the whole "green card thing". I have to pay a butt load of money to get the paperwork and get it through the INS. They said 30 days and we will have you a temp work permit till the green card is sorted. Safe to say it takes 9 months for the temp work permit. The whole time I am not working for nearly the first year of our marriage. I get offered good jobs that I can't take.

    the problem was some A**hole at the INS got my paperwork. cashed the checks and lost a few of the sheets. Over the 9 months they lost everything at least once apart for the money I gave them.
    All we ever heard was it's someone else fault. First they tried to blame me. saying I didn't send in all the stuff needed. I had photo copies of everything I sent ,recorded mail, and the checks where attached to each form.
    That is out tax money hard at work.
    Ouch.... that really does blow. I think another thing that needs to happen, besides scaling back bureacracy, is to make it more efficient. It always seems to me that government jobs are reserved for the undereducated and underqualified folks who can't hack it in the private sector. Education is tied into this problem. Until we raise our standards of education, we'll always see ignorant people standing behind the counter when we go to renew our driver's licenses and such.
    Guns don't kill people, Daddies with pretty daughters do…..
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,561
    Jdorais:
    I think a good starting point is to cut budget of THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT (yes, military too) by 10%.
    Fixed it for ya...
  • TatuajeVITatuajeVI Posts: 2,378
    Jdorais:
    I think a good starting point is to cut budget of THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT (yes, military too) by 1%.
    heh. Try a larger %. The hilarious (well, actually it's horrible) thing is that while our economy is tanking, and tax revenue is so much lower than previous years, spending continue to increase Federally. States cannot borrow money, so they are forced to keep a budget and it shows - State spending and government programs are being slashed left and right. The Federal government needs to follow suit. Any intelligent CEO would cut, cut, cut from every corner of the Federal government - but they won't. Not with this administration and not with the previous one. With the next two election cycles, America needs to kick out EVERY long-term politician possible, and replace them with responsible politicians - unfortunately responsible politicians do not exist. As the saying goes, "All power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
    wwhwang:
    Not a program or agency, really, but I think Congress should be severely limited in its powers and rights. If the Constitution is a powerless joke anywhere in America, it's in Congress. They have the power to give themselves a pay raise (which they do every year), target specific groups for extra taxes and limitation of rights, divert tax dollars to whatever program they wish with no consequences, and destroy the economy by strangling companies with taxes, restrictions, and regulations so that no one hires anymore. In many ways, Congress is much more powerful than the President and the Supreme Court, since they can override presidential vetoes, shoot down programs or bills that the president wants, hinder the president's existing programs by cutting off funding and support, ignore the president altogether, and the supreme court doesn't rule against congress most of the time.
    Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. But, Congress was deliberately given more power constitutionally than any other branch by our Founding Fathers. The "power of the purse" is Congress's for a reason - to prevent an insane President from funding crazy programs. Unfortunately, our Constitution was written in a time of what I would call "Great Statesmen" who truly cared about our Country and truly wanted to make America better. I would venture to say that more if not all Americans cannot say that about our Senators and Representatives. Most are self-serving idiots, and strive to get reelected rather than actually make a difference.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,777 ✭✭✭
    Another way to cut money is to have more states start programs like the one theyre trying to kill (like morons) in Arizona. A lot less need for INS if we make deportation immediate and quick---no trial, its illegal for you to be here to start with. Also, insurance---trial---drivers license---they are all alot more expensive than "shoot on sight" when warned at the border to turn back immediately.
  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    How many +1's can I get for nominating ATF here? HOLLA!

  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,777 ✭✭✭
    +1......and a plus 2 from the ghosts of the people at Ruby Ridge and Waco.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Another way to cut money is to have more states start programs like the one theyre trying to kill (like morons) in Arizona. A lot less need for INS if we make deportation immediate and quick---no trial, its illegal for you to be here to start with. Also, insurance---trial---drivers license---they are all alot more expensive than "shoot on sight" when warned at the border to turn back immediately.
    the "shoot on sight" policy that you promote is not only unethical and and a punishment far to harsh for a non-violent crime, but it will result in many lawsuits that will create far more bureaucracy than we have now on this issue.

    EDIT
    i DO agree though that state programs like the one in arizona will result in less INS. that program may have flaws but it is way better than the state without it.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    TatuajeVI:
    our Constitution was written in a time of what I would call "Great Statesmen" who truly cared about our Country and truly wanted to make America better. I would venture to say that more if not all Americans cannot say that about our Senators and Representatives. Most are self-serving idiots, and strive to get reelected rather than actually make a difference.
    +1
    this, IMHO, is the root of the problem.

    more worried about what they can give the people to keep themselves in office than what is good for the country.
  • lilwing88lilwing88 ChitownPosts: 2,812 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    TatuajeVI:
    our Constitution was written in a time of what I would call "Great Statesmen" who truly cared about our Country and truly wanted to make America better. I would venture to say that more if not all Americans cannot say that about our Senators and Representatives. Most are self-serving idiots, and strive to get reelected rather than actually make a difference.
    +1
    this, IMHO, is the root of the problem.

    more worried about what they can give the people to keep themselves in office than what is good for the country.
    We see more and more examples of this everyday...... Here in IL, I'm sure most are aware of the scandal and corruption plaguing our state and local government. If not, then Google "Rod Blagojevich".......

    Anyways, not many people will remember that before Roland Burris was appointed to Obamas Senate seat, that there was a vote on the state floor to hold a special election for the vacant seat. Most in the House and Senate were in favor, so were the citizens that were polled. However, the Speaker of the House, Mike Madigan, somehow shot it down completely, for fear of losing a valuable Senate seat to a Republican. So there's a great example of politicians taking care of their own and doing what's right for them in spite of the will of the people.
    Guns don't kill people, Daddies with pretty daughters do…..
  • ljlljl Posts: 819
    lilwing88:
    kuzi16:
    TatuajeVI:
    our Constitution was written in a time of what I would call "Great Statesmen" who truly cared about our Country and truly wanted to make America better. I would venture to say that more if not all Americans cannot say that about our Senators and Representatives. Most are self-serving idiots, and strive to get reelected rather than actually make a difference.
    +1
    this, IMHO, is the root of the problem.

    more worried about what they can give the people to keep themselves in office than what is good for the country.
    We see more and more examples of this everyday...... Here in IL, I'm sure most are aware of the scandal and corruption plaguing our state and local government. If not, then Google "Rod Blagojevich".......

    Anyways, not many people will remember that before Roland Burris was appointed to Obamas Senate seat, that there was a vote on the state floor to hold a special election for the vacant seat. Most in the House and Senate were in favor, so were the citizens that were polled. However, the Speaker of the House, Mike Madigan, somehow shot it down completely, for fear of losing a valuable Senate seat to a Republican. So there's a great example of politicians taking care of their own and doing what's right for them in spite of the will of the people.

    +1 to all of this. Also google Todd Stroger while you're at it - total tool.

    If I had an area to look for waste - I'd go straight to Judicial. The whole legal system really. It's like a gang of thieves. Good beat cops are NOT being put in a position to uphold the law. Bad beat cops seem like tenured professors. When the system isn't working at it's most base level, I think it's obvious how much work needs to be done. Unfortunately it does make one cringe to think how much will need to be spent by congress in the way of committees / hearings just to look at it.
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