Ruger has their new LCR ( light compace revolver) which shoots 38 special +p ammo and fits great in all hands. small fram allows for easy concealment, if you want to. but they have a great selection of wheel guns from small to large caliber.
Even with the Parameters you give it is still pretty wide open. Do you have a price range? If money really isn't a concern a custom 1911 is great fun. Another fun gun but not as pricey are Ruger Revolvers in .454 Casull, either the standard Super Redhawk or the Alaskan. They can also shoot .45 LC, which is a nice option to have. If you don't have a SA, those are fun too and there are plenty of choices. I'd personally go with Ruger just because their revolvers are so strongly built. None of these guns are good choices for carry, except possibly the 1911, but if you already have that covered they are all great choices depending on what YOU want.
Pretty broad question! Price range? What's the purpose of the handgun? One2gofst has some great suggestions. Money being no option, a custom 1911 would be an excellent fit to your question if you don't already have one. Some days I regret selling my Wilson Combat CQB a few years back.
Not that my new purchases even remotely relate to your topic, but along the lines of new guns: I have two up-coming purchases - a SHTF rifle and a SHTF pistol! I have my daily carry gun, but I'd like to have a different pistol as a backup, so I'm probably getting an H&K USP 9mm (full size, with the jet-funnel - can't beat 19 round mags! and the LEM trigger. a friend of mine just bought one, and I had a chance to shoot it - amazing pistol) and for my rifle I'll be getting a MSAR STG-556 (it's based off the Styer AUG). Here's a fun pic for ya:
Top left: Israeli Arms Baby Eagle (solid frame weighs like 5lbs) top right: Springfield 1911 .45 amazing shooter, SS Revolver 10.5" 44 mag ruger black hawk, Blued revolver 6" .357 Ruger blackhawk All solid guns.
For under $1500, you've got a lot of options. I personally like Kimber 1911's. My next purchase will be a Kimber Tactical .45. But also Para Ordnance makes a good gun, and you may be able to find Wilson Combat or Ed Brown 1911 customs for that price. Another option still is to get something like a Springfield Armory 1911. They sell base models and have an in-house custom shop with all kinds of upgrade options. I personally love the SA 1911 Trophy Match as it comes, and it can be found for your price.
For under $1500, you've got a lot of options. I personally like Kimber 1911's. My next purchase will be a Kimber Tactical .45. But also Para Ordnance makes a good gun, and you may be able to find Wilson Combat or Ed Brown 1911 customs for that price. Another option still is to get something like a Springfield Armory 1911. They sell base models and have an in-house custom shop with all kinds of upgrade options. I personally love the SA 1911 Trophy Match as it comes, and it can be found for your price.
My buddy has a Trophy match and it cost him right at 1500 bucks not sure he got his money worth though....
For under $1500, you've got a lot of options. I personally like Kimber 1911's. My next purchase will be a Kimber Tactical .45. But also Para Ordnance makes a good gun, and you may be able to find Wilson Combat or Ed Brown 1911 customs for that price. Another option still is to get something like a Springfield Armory 1911. They sell base models and have an in-house custom shop with all kinds of upgrade options. I personally love the SA 1911 Trophy Match as it comes, and it can be found for your price.
My buddy has a Trophy match and it cost him right at 1500 bucks not sure he got his money worth though....
I've only shot one, and it was great. I loved it, and it was a tack driver. I still prefer the Kimber, and for $700 less, that's what I'm planning on getting.
One gun you should look at. its a revolver. it is perfect for self defense. and can be bought new for around $500 bucks. check out the JUDGE from taurus. i have one and i love it. its alittle on the heavy side. but it cant be out done. it shoots .45 or .410 shotshells. it holds 5 rounds. i alternate 45 and 410 in mine. it is a awesome piece check it out.
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods
that's the only reason I carry one. The ONLY reason. Not mine, but a friends. He let's me borrow it during bow season.
I like the idea of the judge, shoots .45 for when you really need it, but can shoot 410 for **** around. they say its not good for anything but what is that based on? I just want something to greet unexpected visitors at the door with instead of a bat and that thing looks pretty mean.
I like the idea of the judge, shoots .45 for when you really need it, but can shoot 410 for **** around. they say its not good for anything but what is that based on? I just want something to greet unexpected visitors at the door with instead of a bat and that thing looks pretty mean.
yeah, but a youth Remington 870 12guage is only like $300 at most, and it's a lot more intimidating and packs a lot more punch. That is my home protection gun.
dont hate the gun. i hit 6 inch targets at 100 yards with my judge loaded with 45's. that gun shoots just as good as any other 45 on the market. and i am a solid ruger fan. it is a great snake gun. it is a great self defense gun. if people are dumb enough to keep coming to you after letting a .410 shell loose., than they deserve a .45. end game. yes it is alittle bulky. AND everyone in the gun industry is loving on this idea for a beginner hand gun for self defense. it cant be matched in self defense, period.
AND everyone in the gun industry is loving on this idea for a beginner hand gun for self defense. it cant be matched in self defense, period.
LOL, see what I mean. It's the greatest weapon ever invented. That and it's a great idea for a beginner handgun shooter to start out with a .45LC. Right.
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods
It should do fine for that, but I'd rather just carry shotshells in a .38 revolver. Truly, the Judge excels as a toy, and there is nothing wrong with that. People just try to make it more than it is. Anything the .45LC can do out of a Judge, it can do better out of a dedicated revolver For those who want to shoot .410 just remember that a .410 slug has about the same energy as a .44 mag WHEN SHOT OUT OF A SHOTGUN. Out of a short barrelled pistol it is not effective.
Bottom line is you get a lot of people who fall in love with the idea of carrying a shotgun on your hip and then refuse to see the negative aspects of the pistol.
Everyone can buy and even carry whatever they like. The only thing I have a problem with is when people seek advice and someone who has fallen in love with the Judge myth promotes said myth to that person who, with an absence of any reasoned discussion of the numerous shortcomings of the judge, also falls in love with the myth. And so it goes.
Sorry for going OT there.
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods
It should do fine for that, but I'd rather just carry shotshells in a .38 revolver. Truly, the Judge excels as a toy, and there is nothing wrong with that. People just try to make it more than it is. Anything the .45LC can do out of a Judge, it can do better out of a dedicated revolver For those who want to shoot .410 just remember that a .410 slug has about the same energy as a .44 mag WHEN SHOT OUT OF A SHOTGUN. Out of a short barrelled pistol it is not effective.
Bottom line is you get a lot of people who fall in love with the idea of carrying a shotgun on your hip and then refuse to see the negative aspects of the pistol.
Everyone can buy and even carry whatever they like. The only thing I have a problem with is when people seek advice and someone who has fallen in love with the Judge myth promotes said myth to that person who, with an absence of any reasoned discussion of the numerous shortcomings of the judge, also falls in love with the myth. And so it goes.
Sorry for going OT there.
dude you got it all wrong. i didnt say it is the best gun. i dont carry the judge. and any smart person wouldnt buy .410 slug rounds. buck shot so you dont miss close up, thats why its a good beginner gun and easy to clean. and i wouldnt say i fell in love with it. so what is the negative aspect? do tell
The downside to the Judge? Not to sound like an arrogant ***, but it's made by Taurus. Taurus makes terrible pistols, their workmanship looks like they are put together by a six year old. I would never ever trust my life to something made that poorly. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would be fun to shoot a .410 out of a revolver, but for $500 I can think of about a thousand other handguns, or shotguns I'd rather purchase.
I know that most people here were just saying it's a fun gun - and that is correct, I'm sure it is a fun toy. But don't kid yourself to think that .410 is going to do anything out of a short barrel like that. Or that the gun is going to hold up over time.
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods
It should do fine for that, but I'd rather just carry shotshells in a .38 revolver. Truly, the Judge excels as a toy, and there is nothing wrong with that. People just try to make it more than it is. Anything the .45LC can do out of a Judge, it can do better out of a dedicated revolver For those who want to shoot .410 just remember that a .410 slug has about the same energy as a .44 mag WHEN SHOT OUT OF A SHOTGUN. Out of a short barrelled pistol it is not effective.
Bottom line is you get a lot of people who fall in love with the idea of carrying a shotgun on your hip and then refuse to see the negative aspects of the pistol.
Everyone can buy and even carry whatever they like. The only thing I have a problem with is when people seek advice and someone who has fallen in love with the Judge myth promotes said myth to that person who, with an absence of any reasoned discussion of the numerous shortcomings of the judge, also falls in love with the myth. And so it goes.
Sorry for going OT there.
dude you got it all wrong. i didnt say it is the best gun. i dont carry the judge. and any smart person wouldnt buy .410 slug rounds. buck shot so you dont miss close up, thats why its a good beginner gun and easy to clean. and i wouldnt say i fell in love with it. so what is the negative aspect? do tell
I am not here to get in a pissing contest. If you really want to know the downsides, here is my take.
- 2 1/2" .410 buckshot has inadequate penetration. I don't care how "can't miss" the round is (although this statement itself is not true, if it can't penetrate adequately it won't matter if you hit with it. Even slugs from the Judge do not penetrate adequately.
-Although underwhelming terminally, recoil is quite stout. This develops all sorts of bad habits like flinching, especially in new shooters.
-.45LC can certainly be an adequate round, however it is not best suited to such a short barrel. However, comparing and length barrel in a dedicated .45LC to a Judge is going to give the advantage in weight and length, giving the Judge no benefit other than the fact that it can fire ineffective .410 shells
-The judge only gives you 5 rounds. This is not a liability, per se, as I regularly am armed with a j-frame and do not feel undergunned. However, if I am going to carry a firearm that only holds five rounds I want it as small and light as reasonably possible. You aren't going to get that with a Judge
-The Judge is no easier or harder to clean than any other revolver
A good beginner gun is one that is not going to build bad habits in the shooter, is easy to maintan, and is relatively inexpensive to shoot. Besides being easy to maintain by virtue that it is a revolver, the Judge fails those other criteria. As for the fallacy that shotguns only need to be pointed in the general vicinity of the target to be effective, even if that were the case a shooter would be infinitely better served by learning to be proficient with a firearm he or she can handle and developing fundamentals than relying on buckshot "so you don't miss up close". If someone is close enough that someone without any fundamental knowledge of how to accurately fire a handgun can be guaranteed a hit with the Judge, I would content they would accurately hit with any firearm (i.e. contact shot, in which case knowing how to run a firearm from retention is of greater importance than your choice of firearm
I will concede that there is one area where the judge is better than any other handgun I know of. However, that area is shooting skeet with a handgun. It also does fine for a snake gun. However a .410 isn't going to make a snake more dead than a j-frame with shotshells.
Like I said, the only reason someone needs to get any gun they like is that they want one, as far as I am concerned. If someone wants a Judge, more power to them. However, that does not make it a good gun for defense, a good gun for beginners, a good gun for target shooting, etc is not accurate. Someone who is knowledgeable about guns is, of course free to make their own decisions. I guess part of the reason recommendations of the judge rankle me so much is that they are often given to new shooters. The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity. Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter.
I do want to apologize to the OP for doing this in his thread. I also am not implying you are a new shooter or anything of the like. The subject of new shooters was broached and I merely addressed it. Good luck with your search. I hope you find a firearm that you really like. I wish I had $1500 for a new blaster myself.
EDIT: A couple things I forgot to address. Here is your original post recommending the Judge.
"One gun you should look at. its a revolver. it is perfect for self defense. and can be bought new for around $500 bucks. check out the JUDGE from taurus. i have one and i love it. its alittle on the heavy side. but it cant be out done. it shoots .45 or .410 shotshells. it holds 5 rounds. i alternate 45 and 410 in mine. it is a awesome piece check it out. "
As you can see, you did certainly say you love it. In addition, you said it is perfect for self-defense and addressed the issue of carry. The is in contrast to what you stated in your last post. I can only go by what you type and take it at face value.
Have you ever patterned your Judge? Didn't do well with a lot of loads in range tests. A fun shooter but not one I'd choose for a carry gun.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
I've told so many people how the Judge is a poor weapon for anything besides goofing around, yet people still want to believe it is the be all, end all of handguns. So now, I just let them.
would it be a good snake gun? just one to put 410 shells in and carry while im in the woods
It should do fine for that, but I'd rather just carry shotshells in a .38 revolver. Truly, the Judge excels as a toy, and there is nothing wrong with that. People just try to make it more than it is. Anything the .45LC can do out of a Judge, it can do better out of a dedicated revolver For those who want to shoot .410 just remember that a .410 slug has about the same energy as a .44 mag WHEN SHOT OUT OF A SHOTGUN. Out of a short barrelled pistol it is not effective.
Bottom line is you get a lot of people who fall in love with the idea of carrying a shotgun on your hip and then refuse to see the negative aspects of the pistol.
Everyone can buy and even carry whatever they like. The only thing I have a problem with is when people seek advice and someone who has fallen in love with the Judge myth promotes said myth to that person who, with an absence of any reasoned discussion of the numerous shortcomings of the judge, also falls in love with the myth. And so it goes.
Sorry for going OT there.
dude you got it all wrong. i didnt say it is the best gun. i dont carry the judge. and any smart person wouldnt buy .410 slug rounds. buck shot so you dont miss close up, thats why its a good beginner gun and easy to clean. and i wouldnt say i fell in love with it. so what is the negative aspect? do tell
I am not here to get in a pissing contest. If you really want to know the downsides, here is my take.
- 2 1/2" .410 buckshot has inadequate penetration. I don't care how "can't miss" the round is (although this statement itself is not true, if it can't penetrate adequately it won't matter if you hit with it. Even slugs from the Judge do not penetrate adequately.
-Although underwhelming terminally, recoil is quite stout. This develops all sorts of bad habits like flinching, especially in new shooters.
-.45LC can certainly be an adequate round, however it is not best suited to such a short barrel. However, comparing and length barrel in a dedicated .45LC to a Judge is going to give the advantage in weight and length, giving the Judge no benefit other than the fact that it can fire ineffective .410 shells
-The judge only gives you 5 rounds. This is not a liability, per se, as I regularly am armed with a j-frame and do not feel undergunned. However, if I am going to carry a firearm that only holds five rounds I want it as small and light as reasonably possible. You aren't going to get that with a Judge
-The Judge is no easier or harder to clean than any other revolver
A good beginner gun is one that is not going to build bad habits in the shooter, is easy to maintan, and is relatively inexpensive to shoot. Besides being easy to maintain by virtue that it is a revolver, the Judge fails those other criteria. As for the fallacy that shotguns only need to be pointed in the general vicinity of the target to be effective, even if that were the case a shooter would be infinitely better served by learning to be proficient with a firearm he or she can handle and developing fundamentals than relying on buckshot "so you don't miss up close". If someone is close enough that someone without any fundamental knowledge of how to accurately fire a handgun can be guaranteed a hit with the Judge, I would content they would accurately hit with any firearm (i.e. contact shot, in which case knowing how to run a firearm from retention is of greater importance than your choice of firearm
I will concede that there is one area where the judge is better than any other handgun I know of. However, that area is shooting skeet with a handgun. It also does fine for a snake gun. However a .410 isn't going to make a snake more dead than a j-frame with shotshells.
Like I said, the only reason someone needs to get any gun they like is that they want one, as far as I am concerned. If someone wants a Judge, more power to them. However, that does not make it a good gun for defense, a good gun for beginners, a good gun for target shooting, etc is not accurate. Someone who is knowledgeable about guns is, of course free to make their own decisions. I guess part of the reason recommendations of the judge rankle me so much is that they are often given to new shooters. The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity. Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter.
I do want to apologize to the OP for doing this in his thread. I also am not implying you are a new shooter or anything of the like. The subject of new shooters was broached and I merely addressed it. Good luck with your search. I hope you find a firearm that you really like. I wish I had $1500 for a new blaster myself.
EDIT: A couple things I forgot to address. Here is your original post recommending the Judge.
"One gun you should look at. its a revolver. it is perfect for self defense. and can be bought new for around $500 bucks. check out the JUDGE from taurus. i have one and i love it. its alittle on the heavy side. but it cant be out done. it shoots .45 or .410 shotshells. it holds 5 rounds. i alternate 45 and 410 in mine. it is a awesome piece check it out. "
As you can see, you did certainly say you love it. In addition, you said it is perfect for self-defense and addressed the issue of carry. The is in contrast to what you stated in your last post. I can only go by what you type and take it at face value.
you have your opinion. and i did say i love it. yes i did . but not as my side arm. and the .410 round is made for close up aggression 6 ft.. any gun can teach bad shooting habits.and the judge does come in 3inch shell capability. and comes in snub nose to
6 inch barrel. and it is made for self defense. and as for clays .410 is worthless for clays. you seem to call the judge a toy. lets remember it is still a gun. you have your views. i have mine. i work in a local gun shop (part time) and shot alot of different guns .i own mostly rugers. yes i did say its easy to clean . but is that not true. most revolvers are. i did say it has weight issues. and it isnt the best concealed gun. the op was looking for opinions. lets just agree to disagree. i got better things to worry about.
Wow. I had no idea this thread would take such a turn but I'm glad it did. Please continue. There is some very interesting stuff being posted. For the record, I have been shooting a long time but don't get near the range time I should due to a variety of factors. I have never been a great shot with a pistol but am fairly confident that, given the time, I could develop into a very good shot as I have/once was with a rifle. Pistols designed to minimize user error would carry a premium IMO as I prefer to take a rifle to the range. I understand there is no substitute for practice, but the odds of me using the firearm as barracks defense (haha all you can thank Clinton me having to check my firearms to the arms room if I'm not mistaken) or a carry gun are very low. Me being an excellent shot with it is not required and not a necessity. That being said, I can never predict what I may need down the road so carry ability shouldn't be completely ignored. I guess I never really realized what I truly wanted/needed until I read the feedback. Thanks guys. That's probably the most important piece right there.
The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity.
ha! so true! You forgot to add the "sure it's only $450, but I swear it's the highest quality! It's a revolver - it never fails!" Course, in my time working in a gunshop/range I saw nearly every Judge break that came in there. And no, my store did not sell Taurus, thank God.
One2gofst:
Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter.
I loved working at a gunshop - every woman that came through looking for a carry gun was told by their friend/relative/instructor to get "the 5 shot, lightweight revolver that will fit in my purse!" About half of them I'd talk out of it, for obvious reasons, but the other half would rent one and come back cursing at their friend/relative/instructor! "I hate to say it, but I told you so... get a Glock 26 and practice!"
The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity.
ha! so true! You forgot to add the "sure it's only $450, but I swear it's the highest quality! It's a revolver - it never fails!" Course, in my time working in a gunshop/range I saw nearly every Judge break that came in there. And no, my store did not sell Taurus, thank God.
One2gofst:
Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter.
I loved working at a gunshop - every woman that came through looking for a carry gun was told by their friend/relative/instructor to get "the 5 shot, lightweight revolver that will fit in my purse!" About half of them I'd talk out of it, for obvious reasons, but the other half would rent one and come back cursing at their friend/relative/instructor! "I hate to say it, but I told you so... get a Glock 26 and practice!"
my thinking for wanting the judge for self defense, if I blast some one with the .410 shells its gonna hurt like hell, sure its not going to give them a new *** but it is an effective deterent. could load the first 3 shots with .410 shells then .45 shots in the remaining two. if the first 3 shells dont incapacitate them, the 2 remaining .45s will. the bennefit of the .410 shells, it is safer to shoot them in a neighborhood and not have to worry about them going through the neighbors wall and killing him if you miss. I agree that for this reason a shotgun would be ideal but a shotgun is large and cumbersome to carry around. the judge sounds like it will get the job done and still easy to carry around when camping. plus plinking around with .410 is cheap and fun!
This will be my last post in this thread. Shoot whatever you want. However nearly everything you state in that post is incorrect. In order to point your weapon at someone, much less shoot them, lethal force must be justified. There are plenty of instances of people taking MULTIPLE RIFLE ROUNDs and continuing their attack. One ought to carry the most effective round for whatever platform they run.
Yes. .410 shells out of a judge are not likely to overpenetrate because they are not powerful. If you want something powerful that will have a lower chance of overpenetration, go with a .223, which penetrates sheetrock less than 20 ga. buckshot or 9mm
Yes pistols by their nature are generally designed to be easier to carry than a longarm. However to think of a revolver made to fire something designed to be shot out of a longarm as being effective because it can fire a shotgun shell (a very small one) is like putting jet fuel in your Honda Civic because Jets go fast and you want Honda Civic to go fast.
The Judge sounds like it will get the job done only if the words someone is playing attention to are "shotgun" and "revolver"
Plinking rounds for a 12ga cost far less than .410.
Truly I hope for anyone who carries a Judge they never have to use it. I hope if they do have to use it they carry the day. I wish those for anyone who carries a gun. It is true that the Judge is a far better weapon than a sharp stick. However this sort of arguement in favor of anything is a false dilemma, as one's only two choices are not a sharp stick/Judge. And just because it is bound to come up soon and this will be my last post in this thread, no, I will not volunteer to be shot with a Judge loaded with anything. I wouldn't volunteer to be shot with a .25 because there is a small chance it may seriously injure or kill me. An air rifle could do the same (actually probably more dangerous than the .25 ) and I don't know who would propose that would be a good weapon for serious use.
Oh, and just so everyone knows, I went ape spit for the Judge when it was first unveiled. I remembered the old Thunder 5 that I thought was so bad ass from when I was too young to own firearms. I just didn't let how cool the idea was cloud my ability to think rationally about what makes a useful firearm. If someone wants one, great. If someone gave me one, I'd take it. However, I don't have money to spend on a toy. Yes it is a firearm. A racecar is a car but it is a toy. Nothing wrong with either. The only problem is when people try to make it into a useful firearm. In fact, most proponents of the Judge go far beyond just calling it a good gun. By their accounts it is the most capable firearm available and can make a bad shot a deadly marksman.
Buy one. Enjoy it. Doesn't bother me in the least. I just wish people would acknowledge what it is.
Well put One2. Please don't leave this thread, your advice has been spot on.
Seriously, can we move on from the Judge now? It is not a serious self defense weapon, period. It is a "fun gun", and a really poorly made one in my humble opinion. The OP has a budget of $1500, is looking for something well made, potentially for carry down the road, and specifically for target practice. The Judge fails miserably in ALL categories. Let's move on.
To theHoff: Since you are a revolver guy, have you considered one of the Performance Center revolvers from Smith & Wesson? I've had a chance to fire a couple in .357mag and they are very, very nice. The trigger is fabulous. Pricey, but they should definitely fit your budget.
Another steel framed pistol to consider would be something from Sig Sauer. They make a SWEET version of the 226 with a 1911-style SA trigger and safety. It weighs about 10 pounds, and shoots like a dream. Jet funnel, large mag capacity. Forget carrying it, but wow does that baby shoot really nicely. Or just go with one of the many other versions of the 226 or 229 in a steel frame. For a slightly lighter version, they make an alloy frame in the 226, 229, and 220. Should run under $1000 for many of the production versions. The super-duper 226 that I can't remember the name of as I recall runs in the $1500 range.
thehoff
Posts: 76
Comments
Not that my new purchases even remotely relate to your topic, but along the lines of new guns:
I have two up-coming purchases - a SHTF rifle and a SHTF pistol! I have my daily carry gun, but I'd like to have a different pistol as a backup, so I'm probably getting an H&K USP 9mm (full size, with the jet-funnel - can't beat 19 round mags! and the LEM trigger. a friend of mine just bought one, and I had a chance to shoot it - amazing pistol) and for my rifle I'll be getting a MSAR STG-556 (it's based off the Styer AUG). Here's a fun pic for ya:
Top left: Israeli Arms Baby Eagle (solid frame weighs like 5lbs) top right: Springfield 1911 .45 amazing shooter, SS Revolver 10.5" 44 mag ruger black hawk, Blued revolver 6" .357 Ruger blackhawk
All solid guns.
I know that most people here were just saying it's a fun gun - and that is correct, I'm sure it is a fun toy. But don't kid yourself to think that .410 is going to do anything out of a short barrel like that. Or that the gun is going to hold up over time.
- 2 1/2" .410 buckshot has inadequate penetration. I don't care how "can't miss" the round is (although this statement itself is not true, if it can't penetrate adequately it won't matter if you hit with it. Even slugs from the Judge do not penetrate adequately.
-Although underwhelming terminally, recoil is quite stout. This develops all sorts of bad habits like flinching, especially in new shooters.
-.45LC can certainly be an adequate round, however it is not best suited to such a short barrel. However, comparing and length barrel in a dedicated .45LC to a Judge is going to give the advantage in weight and length, giving the Judge no benefit other than the fact that it can fire ineffective .410 shells
-The judge only gives you 5 rounds. This is not a liability, per se, as I regularly am armed with a j-frame and do not feel undergunned. However, if I am going to carry a firearm that only holds five rounds I want it as small and light as reasonably possible. You aren't going to get that with a Judge
-The Judge is no easier or harder to clean than any other revolver
A good beginner gun is one that is not going to build bad habits in the shooter, is easy to maintan, and is relatively inexpensive to shoot. Besides being easy to maintain by virtue that it is a revolver, the Judge fails those other criteria. As for the fallacy that shotguns only need to be pointed in the general vicinity of the target to be effective, even if that were the case a shooter would be infinitely better served by learning to be proficient with a firearm he or she can handle and developing fundamentals than relying on buckshot "so you don't miss up close". If someone is close enough that someone without any fundamental knowledge of how to accurately fire a handgun can be guaranteed a hit with the Judge, I would content they would accurately hit with any firearm (i.e. contact shot, in which case knowing how to run a firearm from retention is of greater importance than your choice of firearm
I will concede that there is one area where the judge is better than any other handgun I know of. However, that area is shooting skeet with a handgun. It also does fine for a snake gun. However a .410 isn't going to make a snake more dead than a j-frame with shotshells.
Like I said, the only reason someone needs to get any gun they like is that they want one, as far as I am concerned. If someone wants a Judge, more power to them. However, that does not make it a good gun for defense, a good gun for beginners, a good gun for target shooting, etc is not accurate. Someone who is knowledgeable about guns is, of course free to make their own decisions. I guess part of the reason recommendations of the judge rankle me so much is that they are often given to new shooters. The gunshow commandos tell this person that they need this here Judge because it shoots honest-to-God shotshells out of a handgun and they can handle the recoil if they're a man. So that person eagerly buys their compromise gun that does nothing well (save being the best handgun for shooting clay pigeons), learns bad habits by starting off on a gun with too much recoil, and relies on the misguided notion that this gun is a magic talisman that will instantly incapacitate any BG in their general vicinity. Meanwhile said gunshow commando can go and talk that woman who is interested in her first handgun out of an easy to shoot autoloader in to "that nice little j-frame that will fit in your purse real easy." You know, the one with the heavy DA trigger pull, short sight radius, small grips and exceptionally light weight. Just as an setting up that new woman shooter with an Airweight J-frame, as so many love to do, is a disservice that is NOT going to help anyone, so is recommending a Judge for any new shooter.
I do want to apologize to the OP for doing this in his thread. I also am not implying you are a new shooter or anything of the like. The subject of new shooters was broached and I merely addressed it. Good luck with your search. I hope you find a firearm that you really like. I wish I had $1500 for a new blaster myself. EDIT: A couple things I forgot to address. Here is your original post recommending the Judge.
"One gun you should look at. its a revolver. it is perfect for self defense. and can be bought new for around $500 bucks. check out the JUDGE from taurus. i have one and i love it. its alittle on the heavy side. but it cant be out done. it shoots .45 or .410 shotshells. it holds 5 rounds. i alternate 45 and 410 in mine. it is a awesome piece check it out. "
As you can see, you did certainly say you love it. In addition, you said it is perfect for self-defense and addressed the issue of carry. The is in contrast to what you stated in your last post. I can only go by what you type and take it at face value.
Yes. .410 shells out of a judge are not likely to overpenetrate because they are not powerful. If you want something powerful that will have a lower chance of overpenetration, go with a .223, which penetrates sheetrock less than 20 ga. buckshot or 9mm
Yes pistols by their nature are generally designed to be easier to carry than a longarm. However to think of a revolver made to fire something designed to be shot out of a longarm as being effective because it can fire a shotgun shell (a very small one) is like putting jet fuel in your Honda Civic because Jets go fast and you want Honda Civic to go fast.
The Judge sounds like it will get the job done only if the words someone is playing attention to are "shotgun" and "revolver"
Plinking rounds for a 12ga cost far less than .410.
Truly I hope for anyone who carries a Judge they never have to use it. I hope if they do have to use it they carry the day. I wish those for anyone who carries a gun. It is true that the Judge is a far better weapon than a sharp stick. However this sort of arguement in favor of anything is a false dilemma, as one's only two choices are not a sharp stick/Judge. And just because it is bound to come up soon and this will be my last post in this thread, no, I will not volunteer to be shot with a Judge loaded with anything. I wouldn't volunteer to be shot with a .25 because there is a small chance it may seriously injure or kill me. An air rifle could do the same (actually probably more dangerous than the .25
Oh, and just so everyone knows, I went ape spit for the Judge when it was first unveiled. I remembered the old Thunder 5 that I thought was so bad ass from when I was too young to own firearms. I just didn't let how cool the idea was cloud my ability to think rationally about what makes a useful firearm. If someone wants one, great. If someone gave me one, I'd take it. However, I don't have money to spend on a toy. Yes it is a firearm. A racecar is a car but it is a toy. Nothing wrong with either. The only problem is when people try to make it into a useful firearm. In fact, most proponents of the Judge go far beyond just calling it a good gun. By their accounts it is the most capable firearm available and can make a bad shot a deadly marksman.
Buy one. Enjoy it. Doesn't bother me in the least. I just wish people would acknowledge what it is.
Seriously, can we move on from the Judge now? It is not a serious self defense weapon, period. It is a "fun gun", and a really poorly made one in my humble opinion. The OP has a budget of $1500, is looking for something well made, potentially for carry down the road, and specifically for target practice. The Judge fails miserably in ALL categories. Let's move on.
To theHoff: Since you are a revolver guy, have you considered one of the Performance Center revolvers from Smith & Wesson? I've had a chance to fire a couple in .357mag and they are very, very nice. The trigger is fabulous. Pricey, but they should definitely fit your budget.
Another steel framed pistol to consider would be something from Sig Sauer. They make a SWEET version of the 226 with a 1911-style SA trigger and safety. It weighs about 10 pounds, and shoots like a dream. Jet funnel, large mag capacity. Forget carrying it, but wow does that baby shoot really nicely. Or just go with one of the many other versions of the 226 or 229 in a steel frame. For a slightly lighter version, they make an alloy frame in the 226, 229, and 220. Should run under $1000 for many of the production versions. The super-duper 226 that I can't remember the name of as I recall runs in the $1500 range.