Never Forget...

Krieg

I'm not going to go into a big thing about remembering 9/11, we all know what it means...instead, I'm just going to post this:

YankeeMan

We'll never forget! That day was my most difficult as Chief of Police and also my proudest moment. No chief or sheriff had ever faced anything like that and we had to do what we could without really knowing what was going on. We are a college town and one college has twin tower dorms and the other has an atomic reactor. Needless to say, we had concerns.

I cancelled all days off and called in all my officers. Even though they were worried about their own families, not one complained and all responded immediately. We worked like that for a week and even though there was no real threat, people in the city said they felt more secure seeing all the officers around the city.

PuroFreak

Never forget...

phobicsquirrel

I don't think anyone would dispute it was a horrible event, however what has transpired since and due to it is so much worse.

PuroFreak

phobicsquirrel:

I don't think anyone would dispute it was a horrible event, however what has transpired since and due to it is so much worse.

I couldn't disagree with any statement more.

phobicsquirrel

PuroFreak:

phobicsquirrel:

I don't think anyone would dispute it was a horrible event, however what has transpired since and due to it is so much worse.

I couldn't disagree with any statement more.

and how so...

stephen_hannibal

PuroFreak:

phobicsquirrel:

I don't think anyone would dispute it was a horrible event, however what has transpired since and due to it is so much worse.

I couldn't disagree with any statement more.

Wow... I'm with Puro on that. Life is precious, war is hell. But all evil is inexcusable.

phobicsquirrel

stephen_hannibal:

PuroFreak:

phobicsquirrel:

I don't think anyone would dispute it was a horrible event, however what has transpired since and due to it is so much worse.

I couldn't disagree with any statement more.

Wow... I'm with Puro on that. Life is precious, war is hell. But all evil is inexcusable.

exactly.. Thus 2700 people is not worth millions of lives and decades of war (hopefully the s on this won't be true). Let's us not forget that no country attacked us and it was done by a small group. Thus 9-11 was horrible, but what the US had done in its wake is so much, much worse than that one act.

wwhwang

phobicsquirrel:

stephen_hannibal:

PuroFreak:

phobicsquirrel:

I don't think anyone would dispute it was a horrible event, however what has transpired since and due to it is so much worse.

I couldn't disagree with any statement more.

Wow... I'm with Puro on that. Life is precious, war is hell. But all evil is inexcusable.

exactly.. Thus 2700 people is not worth millions of lives and decades of war (hopefully the s on this won't be true). Let's us not forget that no country attacked us and it was done by a small group. Thus 9-11 was horrible, but what the US had done in its wake is so much, much worse than that one act.

If you're talking about Afghanistan, you have to keep in mind that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda operatives looove to hold entire mosques and villages hostage. Not only that, they're usually the ones hiding out in busy streets and town centers among the population shooting US troops and civilians alike. More than once have they done this. One soldier could take a perfectly well aimed shot and take down the insurgent and no one else and guess what? Soldiers get blamed for the massacre, not the Taliban. It's even gotten to the point where our "genius"-in-chief forbids anyone from shooting anywhere near any civilian, even if the insurgents are bombing the hell out of the town.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that mistakes will be made and in no war has there been a zero civilian casualty rate. Not only that, there have been many terrorist plots thwarted with Al-Qaeda operatives coming in through Mexico and Canada. Does CNN report this? Never. They just report "Hey, insurgents wiped out half a village, but we're sure our soldiers, marines, Bush, and Palin are responsible."

phobicsquirrel

wwhwang:

phobicsquirrel:

stephen_hannibal:

PuroFreak:

phobicsquirrel:

I don't think anyone would dispute it was a horrible event, however what has transpired since and due to it is so much worse.

I couldn't disagree with any statement more.

Wow... I'm with Puro on that. Life is precious, war is hell. But all evil is inexcusable.

exactly.. Thus 2700 people is not worth millions of lives and decades of war (hopefully the s on this won't be true). Let's us not forget that no country attacked us and it was done by a small group. Thus 9-11 was horrible, but what the US had done in its wake is so much, much worse than that one act.

If you're talking about Afghanistan, you have to keep in mind that the Taliban and Al-Qaeda operatives looove to hold entire mosques and villages hostage. Not only that, they're usually the ones hiding out in busy streets and town centers among the population shooting US troops and civilians alike. More than once have they done this. One soldier could take a perfectly well aimed shot and take down the insurgent and no one else and guess what? Soldiers get blamed for the massacre, not the Taliban. It's even gotten to the point where our "genius"-in-chief forbids anyone from shooting anywhere near any civilian, even if the insurgents are bombing the hell out of the town.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that mistakes will be made and in no war has there been a zero civilian casualty rate. Not only that, there have been many terrorist plots thwarted with Al-Qaeda operatives coming in through Mexico and Canada. Does CNN report this? Never. They just report "Hey, insurgents wiped out half a village, but we're sure our soldiers, marines, Bush, and Palin are responsible."

I wasn't just talking about war. I am saying that Al Qaeda is a group, a small group so why does the US Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and thousands of PRIVATE contractors invading countries? For a group of people. The military is great at blowing *** up but for this type of thing they just can't do it. We either use tacticle agencies such as the spec ops crowd and other counter insurgencies to do this or we have what we have now, a complete quagmire in the Muslim world. Your right, the news sucks.
However since 9-11 we have passed a huge piece of legislation that takes a lot of our freedoms as Americans and puts them on hold, AKA the PATRIOT act, a huge new agency called HOMELAND SECURITY, along with hundreds if not thousands of contractors that listen to our phone calls, can look at our computer messages and ip traffic, a huge surge in private military companies which is very costly and is also tarnishing the US's name, invading a country which had no proof of involvement and lied about, invaded another country to get bin laden which was a FAIL from the get go as the CIA and DOD let him escape, trillions of dollars spent (borrowed) to fuel these wars along with all the private contractors who are building (stealing) over there, mass divide among our citizens, and countless lives.. There are more but this is just some of the stuff which is due to the outlandish, and ill thought out response to 9-11. I'm not even going to begin to talk about the F'ing airport ***. All of this due to a network of people who do terrorism through out the world.
That's sort of the crappy thing about sending in the most powerful military on earth on a bug hunt for a small group of people who are almost all decimated. However in doing this massive civilian casualties (man of who are killed indirectly) cause a problem, protest and cause the populous to turn. And in this case we (the US) are being touted as being something which we are not, and Empire at war with the Muslim world.
Thus is why I have a problem with the post 9-11 US. This has lasted longer than WW2 and there is no end in sight. Also FEAR has been used to promote safety and thus has put more and more stipulations on OUR rights and has caused multiple foreign relation issues as well as take our money out of our treasury. Bottom line, terrorism happens and there isn't anything to stop it completely unless we lose ourselves as a Nation of Freedom and turn it into something you see in Equilibrium/V for Vendetta or any other film that shows a world of military rule and no freedoms. No we as a country Failed in the shadows of 9-11, we gave into FEAR and overreacted so much that we allowed "one" man to pretty much turn us into an empire at war.

Vulchor

(The following has nothing to do with 9-11 attacks)Ya know squirrel you sicken me. What has traspired since???? Ill tell you what has happened. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED my friend. Saddam...the man who brought those towers down, is dead. The WMD's have been found, dismanteled, and destroyed. The axis of evil is weaker than ever. Thanks to our great and on the spot intelligence, we were able to win the war in Iraq and liberate a country...with next to no loss of life and a constant barrage of successes. No American freedoms were ever taken away and no spying on our citizens ever took place. Our troops have always had the best body armor and were always placed in situations that were well planned by only the most compotent of officials. That other Bin-somebody fellow is around...and were gonna smoke him out and hunt him down and he will be brought to justice...against, just like Saddam---the real threat in the world. Maybe if we didnt have that pu$$y a$$ Muslim president it would have happened already. But dont worry, we're takin this country back and winnin the war when we do. To this and all things in Jesus and Sarah Palin's name we pray-----AMEN.

9-11 is something we can all agree on, and the way we felt that day (last time I was in a church I do believe as well). HOWEVER, 9-11 and the spirit of unity from that day is something we have lost...as well as holding those accountable who are the "masters of war" in this country and the chaos our soldiers are faced with because of them.

wwhwang

Oooh ok. I wasn't completely sure what you were trying to pinpoint the first time around. I do agree that it's been going on for a lot longer than it should, but eh...can't exactly pull out now when the Afghani army and security forces are even weaker than their Iraqi cousins. You know what's funny though? This decade-long manhunt for Bin Laden would have been over very very quickly if some dumb congressmen hadn't leaked info to the media about how we were tracking him and his entire network. Soon as that info hit the news, Bin Laden and a lot of his buddies suddenly fell off the grid. One more example of how politicians and the media made our job much harder than it already was.

phobicsquirrel

I'll take that as compliment, I try to sicken a few people here and there...

wwhwang

Vulchor:

(The following has nothing to do with 9-11 attacks)Ya know squirrel you sicken me. What has traspired since???? Ill tell you what has happened. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED my friend. Saddam...the man who brought those towers down, is dead. The WMD's have been found, dismanteled, and destroyed. The axis of evil is weaker than ever. Thanks to our great and on the spot intelligence, we were able to win the war in Iraq and liberate a country...with next to no loss of life and a constant barrage of successes. No American freedoms were ever taken away and no spying on our citizens ever took place. Our troops have always had the best body armor and were always placed in situations that were well planned by only the most compotent of officials. That other Bin-somebody fellow is around...and were gonna smoke him out and hunt him down and he will be brought to justice...against, just like Saddam---the real threat in the world. Maybe if we didnt have that pu$$y a$$ Muslim president it would have happened already. But dont worry, we're takin this country back and winnin the war when we do. To this and all things in Jesus and Sarah Palin's name we pray-----AMEN.

9-11 is something we can all agree on, and the way we felt that day (last time I was in a church I do believe as well). HOWEVER, 9-11 and the spirit of unity from that day is something we have lost...as well as holding those accountable who are the "masters of war" in this country and the chaos our soldiers are faced with because of them.

Wow...this was kind of uncalled for.

Vulchor

Why was it uncalled for ****??? Thats the bull$hit weve been putting up with since 9-11. Lies, misinformation, lack of credible evidence, rumor, photo op's, and a lot of dead men and women who died for reasons they did not go into war for to start with. Ya---Im crass, but it isnt uncalled for. What is called for is demanding answer from the "masters of war" about many of points...which are valid and the county continues to sit idly by and stroke themselved while we are lied to. .......Also, Squirrel, I am sure you knen my entire post was sarcasm and I was infact agreeing with your earlier writings correct?

Vulchor

And no....before I get attacked for blaming EVERYTHING on the repubs. and Bush-----I am well enough aware the dems. role in it as well.

mrpillow

Kinda sad that a simple post about remembering a national tragedy and the people that died degrades into this.



I think Krieg had the right idea.

Vulchor

mrpillow:

Kinda sad that a simple post about remembering a national tragedy and the people that died degrades into this.



I think Krieg had the right idea.

I agree, and am to blame for that as well. However, what i said I stand by and will say a different post couldve been used.

PuroFreak

mrpillow:

Kinda sad that a simple post about remembering a national tragedy and the people that died degrades into this.



I think Krieg had the right idea.

This was my point exactly. To turn a thread to honor the people we lost on that day into a political satement was wrong and pretty **** low if you ask me. I'm not going to think about the petty politics that came after 9-11-2001 today. We have 364 other days to discuss those issues. Today I'm going to remember the innocent people who died for no reason other than they were going to work and living their lives.

Vulchor

I dont know how Squirrel making a statement, and then my followup was a "f'ing low blow" to the day. You nor no one else know where I was, how I felt, or what i did on that day----nor is there any reason to care, but dont tell me about whats low and what isnt. I can agree that a different post coudlve been used, but then we just have another defelcetion away from tough questions and difficult realizations that came about because of the horrific actions 9 years ago.

The men and women who live and die daily as a direct result of that day are owed a genuine discussion of our path and how we got there. We also owe it to them to engage in a critical analysis of what has gone on to see no more people have to die as a result of lies or failures in the chain of command. That isnt a low blow, thats showing respect to the memory of all who have died on 9-11 and after it "defending freedom", and not dying in vain because no one wanted to speak up when they should have...whatever the title of a post may be.

phobicsquirrel

Vulchor:

I dont know how Squirrel making a statement, and then my followup was a "f'ing low blow" to the day. You nor no one else know where I was, how I felt, or what i did on that day----nor is there any reason to care, but dont tell me about whats low and what isnt. I can agree that a different post coudlve been used, but then we just have another defelcetion away from tough questions and difficult realizations that came about because of the horrific actions 9 years ago.

The men and women who live and die daily as a direct result of that day are owed a genuine discussion of our path and how we got there. We also owe it to them to engage in a critical analysis of what has gone on to see no more people have to die as a result of lies or failures in the chain of command. That isnt a low blow, thats showing respect to the memory of all who have died on 9-11 and after it "defending freedom", and not dying in vain because no one wanted to speak up when they should have...whatever the title of a post may be.

yeah sort of what I was getting at. those that say that they died for freedom, not so sure about that one however I wasn't ever trying to make this political I was just stating that 9-11 has been a real turning point and thus our direction has been wrong and cost many more lives than what we lost on that day.

phobicsquirrel

Vulchor:

Why was it uncalled for ****??? Thats the bull$hit weve been putting up with since 9-11. Lies, misinformation, lack of credible evidence, rumor, photo op's, and a lot of dead men and women who died for reasons they did not go into war for to start with. Ya---Im crass, but it isnt uncalled for. What is called for is demanding answer from the "masters of war" about many of points...which are valid and the county continues to sit idly by and stroke themselved while we are lied to. .......Also, Squirrel, I am sure you knen my entire post was sarcasm and I was infact agreeing with your earlier writings correct?

yup, pretty much.. oh and yeah I got your sarcasm. No one owns this 9-11 thing, however as 9 years later reflecting back one cannot separate the actual act on the morning of 9-11-01 and what followed.

fla-gypsy

I chose to remember those who were murdered, the cowards who were behind it, and honor those who have tried to root out the cancer on mankind that is radical Islam and ignore the total stupidity posted by some on this thread. If we have to invade every damn country in the Muslim world to root out this cancer, so be it!

stephen_hannibal

fla-gypsy:

I chose to remember those who were murdered, the cowards who were behind it, and honor those who have tried to root out the cancer on mankind that is radical Islam and ignore the total stupidity posted by some on this thread. If we have to invade every damn country in the Muslim world to root out this cancer, so be it!

+ M*****f***ing 1

jlmarta

fla-gypsy:

I chose to remember those who were murdered, the cowards who were behind it, and honor those who have tried to root out the cancer on mankind that is radical Islam and ignore the total stupidity posted by some on this thread. If we have to invade every damn country in the Muslim world to root out this cancer, so be it!

And a big AMEN to that!!

Marty

YankeeMan

fla-gypsy:

I chose to remember those who were murdered, the cowards who were behind it, and honor those who have tried to root out the cancer on mankind that is radical Islam and ignore the total stupidity posted by some on this thread. If we have to invade every damn country in the Muslim world to root out this cancer, so be it!

Well said!!!

Vulchor

I dont disagree per se....but thats also mighty easy to say when you (and many of the rest of us for that matter) sit at home and watch on T.V. I dont think if my son or daughter were military I would feel the same way about "invading every damn country"-----including apparently Iraq, which has as much to do with 9-11 as New Zealand.

You make very good comments to hit at emotions and rally people to the flag flying proudly, but those do not always take into account a rational or critical perspective on actions that we owe it to everyone to make.

fla-gypsy

Vulchor:

I dont disagree per se....but thats also mighty easy to say when you (and many of the rest of us for that matter) sit at home and watch on T.V. I dont think if my son or daughter were military I would feel the same way about "invading every damn country"-----including apparently Iraq, which has as much to do with 9-11 as New Zealand.

You make very good comments to hit at emotions and rally people to the flag flying proudly, but those do not always take into account a rational or critical perspective on actions that we owe it to everyone to make.

We could do nothing and hope they go away as we did during the Clinton years but that got us nowhere. These mongrels will never give up their jihad against us and nothing we do will ever appease them as their stated goals are to convert or kill ALL infidels and rule the world. We could turn our nation into an armed fortress to repell them at the border but our politicians don't even have the will to close our southern border. BTW, for the record, I have family in the military and they have served multiple tours in this fight so I clearly understand what the risks are. These are my opinions if others agree with them that is fine with me, if not, what other options do we have when dealing with those bent on murdering us?

Vulchor

I dont totally disagree, as I said before. Although, you continue to make emotional arguments instead of asking (or providing answers) to fair and just questions. As I asked before also.....what does this have to do with Iraq and the bad intelligence and false reasons we went in? Iraq was about WMDs and a supposed link to 9-11.........There has never been accountability about this, instead people blindly accept the line that we "liberated their people from a dictator". This may be so, but this was not the intent. Accountability is always talked about around electiom season and especially this one. I think we owe to to soldiers and our own national pocketbooks to demand this same accounability here.

PuroFreak

Vulchor:

I dont totally disagree, as I said before. Although, you continue to make emotional arguments instead of asking (or providing answers) to fair and just questions. As I asked before also.....what does this have to do with Iraq and the bad intelligence and false reasons we went in? Iraq was about WMDs and a supposed link to 9-11.........There has never been accountability about this, instead people blindly accept the line that we "liberated their people from a dictator". This may be so, but this was not the intent. Accountability is always talked about around electiom season and especially this one. I think we owe to to soldiers and our own national pocketbooks to demand this same accounability here.

Ok, then let's hold the Clinton administration accountable for the intelligence that lead to the war in Iraq. The WMD intelligence was left over from the Clinton administration's CIA director. People that claim President Bush lied to take us to war always neglect to remember the entire truth. I'm not saying that's what you were implying, but that is something that always got under my skin. Those people only remember the part of the story that fits their agenda.

Vulchor

In an earlier post...in this same topic...I said the Dems need to be held accountable as well. By your logic we should be holding Bush Jr accountable for economy too...but it wont hold water for you there I wouldnt imagine.