Serious politically oriented questions

Vulchor

So alot of us here agree, and some disagree on a ton of political topics. Some are good, some go no where. Some stay out of some, some get into all. So I have a few questions that I think can remain civil (for a time anyway) and everyone can participate in...and have been a big query to me. They deal with terms we use and throw around as blanket statements (myself included) and I feel need a true definition or a point of reference for people...

What is a "small" business?What constitutes the "rich" and the "poor"?What is "middle class"?What is "small government"?

Amos_Umwhat

Vulchor:

So alot of us here agree, and some disagree on a ton of political topics. Some are good, some go no where. Some stay out of some, some get into all. So I have a few questions that I think can remain civil (for a time anyway) and everyone can participate in...and have been a big query to me. They deal with terms we use and throw around as blanket statements (myself included) and I feel need a true definition or a point of reference for people...

What is a "small" business?What constitutes the "rich" and the "poor"?What is "middle class"?What is "small government"?

Well, my first thought is "Oy!" Subjectivity! Would be nice to have a working understanding among a group, though, but the shades of gray will always be there. I agree, we should give it thought.

lilwing88

Wow. I wish I had the time to type responses to these questions. Truth be told, I'd be typing for hours......

Sorry Vulch. You're going to have to be a bit more specific here. True definitions for these phrases could fill books. Literally.

I kinda get were you're going with this, though. You probably hear pundits on both sides who bash the "rich", feel pity for the "poor" and champion the "middle class". All the while, you're thinking "Who the f**k are they talking about, exactly?"

The best short answer I can give you is: you know it when you see it.

PuroFreak

I think some context is needed for these questions before they can actually be answered. If you are comparing globally then someone who makes $25,000 is pretty rich comparatively speaking. Many people consider someone who is "poor" as someone that lives below "poverty level" but even a good majority of them still have cell phones and a TV... Like lilwing said, the answers to these questions could fill books. Maybe narrowing it down to one question at a time and taking it on more slowly might be easier. (And would give most of us less cramps from typing!) LOL

Vulchor

I am referring to the U.S. only, I understand these are difficult questions----but thats kinda what I was hoping, that maybe instead of these phrases just being used (here as well as other places) people could come out for what they really believe. I think engaging in a critical analysis of each term and how you personally feel about it would be great for discussion------for "us" liberals it would give our point of reference for who the rich are. For the conservatives, it could describe the values so often espoused as well as how to trim the budget that is so wanted. Much easier to deflect answering these or to say how hard it is than to give a real answer. I wil throw a basic answer out there for my stance, and I reserve the right to change if I realize I am wrong----I dont think flip flopping is always a weakness.

Vulchor

1. Small Business I consider to be a business with under 100 emplyees, and probably less than that.

2. Well to do is making over 250 K per year per individual, rich is in that 500K-1 million range-------Poor is harder to define, but I think when your getting under 20K and you support anyone but yourself, youre getting close

3. Middle Class...families (3 to 6 people) earning between 40 and 120K

4. Small govt, I dont have an answeer for because I dont beleive it exists in our county. Govt. only gets bigger and takes away more rights. I think small govt. is only a term used to keep the masses happy because it sounds good in a speech.

Krieg

Vulchor:

So alot of us here agree, and some disagree on a ton of political topics. Some are good, some go no where. Some stay out of some, some get into all. So I have a few questions that I think can remain civil (for a time anyway) and everyone can participate in...and have been a big query to me. They deal with terms we use and throw around as blanket statements (myself included) and I feel need a true definition or a point of reference for people...

What is a "small" business?What constitutes the "rich" and the "poor"?What is "middle class"?What is "small government"?

i think we could have a thread for each question.

Krieg

I consider a small business any company where the owner has to report the company earnings on his own tax return.

Krieg

Their are many different def of "rich" by Govt standards, Warren Buffet is poor because he doesn't have an net income. PrezBo thinks people who make over a 100,000 a year is rich...but this goes back to my earlier post where many of these people are small biz owners who have to report the company's income on their personal tax return. I would like to go into my detail, but it's almost bath time for the kids

Krieg

I think "small govt" is a relative term. I think small govt really means "less obtrusive, more local governing". IMO, the Federal Govt has drastically overreached it's boundries in governing. For example, The Depart. of Education. I think it should return more power to local governing bodies.

Krieg

Usually the term "middle class" refers to people making $25,000 to $100,000.

fla-gypsy

When I have more energy I will jump in

lilwing88

I'll start with the small business definition, for now....... A small business is any business that is not a corporation. By corporation I mean a vast workforce and a structure of management that includes a Pres, Vice Pres, CEO etc....... I don't think it should be defined solely by profit margin. A small business also doesn't have shareholders. One example of my definition would be a barber shop owner. He makes enough to support him and his family and might have a small staff of 2 or 3 other barbers. There are many other examples, but I think most people are in agreement of what a small business is. I guess if you're unsure about whether or not a particular business should be defined as small or large, just ask.....

Vulchor

Well Wing----what about the controversey around the company "Bechtel'? They are not a corporation and are privately owned.....but had 31 billion in revenue last year and is backed by many as being a small business to be hurt by tax cut changes. Where does this one fall?

lilwing88

Did you just bait be, Vulch? LOL!

I don't know much about Bechtel, but from what little I found on-line, they are in fact a corporation. Their official name is "Bechtel Corp."..... I would say this one falls into the corporation criteria. I can't speak for whomever claims they are a "small business", but I wouldn't define them as such, personally.

Vulchor

Lolllllllll.....no baiting, at least not intentionally. I just thought these were some decent little questions overall to kick around and plays devils advocate with, so trying to stir up a little interest is all.

fla-gypsy

Definition of small business
The Small Business Administration actually defines what a small business is on their website. I spent a solid hour reading through their definitions and charts and I still have no clue what a small business is. You can find that here: http://www.sba.gov/contractingopportunities/officials/size/index.html
This brings us to another of the topics, small Government. The SBA page explanations is the proof positive that we need smaller govt. LOL

fla-gypsy

According to the US Govt
The 2009 Poverty Guidelines for the 48 Contiguous States and the District of Columbia
Persons in family Poverty guideline
1 $10,830 2 14,570 3 18,310 4 22,050 5 25,790 6 29,530 7 33,270 8 37,010
For families with more than 8 persons, add $3,740 for each additional person.

fla-gypsy

Income brackets according to tax rates
According to the US Govt there are 6 effective tax brackects for income. They are:

10% single up to $8,375
15% single up to $34,000

25% single up to $82,400
28% single up to $171,850

33% single up to $373,650
35% single above $373,650

Looking carefully at the income levels associated with these brackets I think they pair off nicely. 2-low income, 2-middle income, 2-upper income.

Vulchor

I will say singles making upwards of 150K seem a little more than middle income to me. Also, poverty levels are something different totally, and actually I consider below the real poverty level

Let me ask Gypsy, I too tried to make heads or tails out of the SBA guidelines and such-----good luck...however you say this is a need for smaller govt. I dont disagree, but this is a blanket statement I am trying to talk about in this very topic. Smaller govt, sure.....but what needs to be smaller and how does doing such make this any better?

Im not being confrontational btw, or even saying I dont agree, but small govt. sounds great BUT how would that change or help this? What could be done to make it so?

fla-gypsy

Vulchor:

I will say singles making upwards of 150K seem a little more than middle income to me. Also, poverty levels are something different totally, and actually I consider below the real poverty level

Let me ask Gypsy, I too tried to make heads or tails out of the SBA guidelines and such-----good luck...however you say this is a need for smaller govt. I dont disagree, but this is a blanket statement I am trying to talk about in this very topic. Smaller govt, sure.....but what needs to be smaller and how does doing such make this any better?

Im not being confrontational btw, or even saying I dont agree, but small govt. sounds great BUT how would that change or help this? What could be done to make it so?

Vulch if I knew how to make my govt smaller I would run for office, no wait, that little farming incident might come up. LOL Seriously, I think it may be a lost cause at this point. Our federal govt has infiltrated every part of our lives and wants to be our nanny. Most people have no idea how to even comprehend how big it is, me included. I think we would have to start with the stuff that is absolutely useless and work from there. Once a bureacracy has begun you can never get rid of it as we pour more and more money down the hole on it. The list of federal agencies and departments alone will fill books.