Sorry just landed from nica. Catalog needs retail and vice versa. The retail landscape is changing. There are tons of opportunities for stores to make a substantial amount of money and some that do for that matter. If they sit around worrying about what I am doing and not looking at what they can do to compete, it is indeed a recipe for failure. However, doing events, investing in a lounge and evolving with the market, instead of fighting against it, can be a great business models. Stores can do a lot of things I can't. But many stores would rather complain than improve their model. Note, I am speaking specifically about cigars, not all retail.
Sorry just landed from nica. Catalog needs retail and vice versa. The retail landscape is changing. There are tons of opportunities for stores to make a substantial amount of money and some that do for that matter. If they sit around worrying about what I am doing and not looking at what they can do to compete, it is indeed a recipe for failure. However, doing events, investing in a lounge and evolving with the market, instead of fighting against it, can be a great business models. Stores can do a lot of things I can't. But many stores would rather complain than improve their model. Note, I am speaking specifically about cigars, not all retail.
I completely agree with you on this, but would further posit that ALL retail is in need of change. It seems that retailers are trying to be more like online outlets, letting the customer do everything for him or herself. Then they hire inexperienced button-pushers to make sure that it all runs smoothly. What retail can offer that catalog/online (ccom excluded of course!) is good customer service and it seems they've completely overlooked that fact. Retail should be about paying a few employees with a vast knowledge base good money to treat a customer with the respect he or she deserves and they should leave the self-service to those that do it better and cheaper.
To that end, investing in a lounge is a fantastic idea for a B&M cigar shop, for two huge reasons. For one, it gives customers a place to go and interact and adds a dimension to the experience that catalog/online sales cannot. But even more important, it actually uses the current anti-smoking climate as an ADVANTAGE rather than whining about it with a woe-is-me attitude. They're providing a place to go, and people will pay for that. Almost like a speakeasy during prohibition. You know those joints were making money hand over fist.
I browsed through this since I am feeling lazy. I would say that RP hurts RP more then anything else. By the time I have finished writing this response RP has released 32 new cigars.
I used to like RP but honestly I haven't smoked a thing by him in over 2 years probably. I have tons of RP cigars in the humidors but they do not interest me at this time.
Sorry just landed from nica. Catalog needs retail and vice versa. The retail landscape is changing. There are tons of opportunities for stores to make a substantial amount of money and some that do for that matter. If they sit around worrying about what I am doing and not looking at what they can do to compete, it is indeed a recipe for failure. However, doing events, investing in a lounge and evolving with the market, instead of fighting against it, can be a great business models. Stores can do a lot of things I can't. But many stores would rather complain than improve their model. Note, I am speaking specifically about cigars, not all retail.
I am no fan of Rocky by far and he really did hurt his brand when it became such a joke that you could buy a cigar for a couple bucks online but that same one would cost you 12 bucks in a store. Most people when they find this out feel like they got ripped off. A lot of stores stopped supporting Rocky due to this because they felt he was not supporting them.
As for Tatuaje the limited editions are kind of annoying but what else is someone to do when they have a very limited amount of one kind of tobacco. I absolutely love the core brown line and reach for that more often then not. If you hate LE's I am sure your not a fan of Viaje either but again he has a fantastic core line.
As for Tatuaje the limited editions are kind of annoying but what else is someone to do when they have a very limited amount of one kind of tobacco. I absolutely love the core brown line and reach for that more often then not. If you hate LE's I am sure your not a fan of Viaje either but again he has a fantastic core line.
You're missing the point. If there was a limited amount of tobacco and that was why he did it I'd get it but thats not the case. Tatuaje does it solely for marketing purposes.
Just had a Vintage 1990 in honor of this thread lol. Definitely not worth the current price. In fact, I don't think it's even worth the $34.99/10 I paid. Was quite boring and had some bitterness. For some reason I remember these being so much better a couple years ago. I suppose with all of AJ's offerings I have been spoiled with great flavor and low prices.
It was suggested on the sister that theres been some fallout between RP and the forces that be, which is why Rocky daily deals of any kind have essentially disappeared, kind of like what happened with Cusano a year back or so. I was just wondering if there was any truth to any of this because RP has essentially disappeared from the radar when it comes to deals etc. Not to say I mind because I only really liked 3 or so of his new-brand-a-week blends, but still its kind of odd how his stuff has just kind of disappeared from being spoken about.
Just a quick question out there....what is CC's sister site/store?
Just had a Vintage 1990 in honor of this thread lol. Definitely not worth the current price. In fact, I don't think it's even worth the $34.99/10 I paid. Was quite boring and had some bitterness. For some reason I remember these being so much better a couple years ago. I suppose with all of AJ's offerings I have been spoiled with great flavor and low prices.
-Bryan
They were. I've never read an official confirmation from anyone who would have direct inside knowledge on these sorts of things, but ever since the band change of the vintage series, they are nowhere near as good, in fact...something i can live easily without. I dont know if its simply that the yearly tobacco harvest wasnt as good as the previous or if RP started cutting corners on those cigars...but many/most who have tasted them since the band change would agree that they fell a few ranks on the qualitymeter.
Yes there is a new policy in place with rocky Patel which sets prices and will no longer allow us to do deals on his cigars. This was not just a contract for internet and catalog but for all accounts nationwide including stores. It amounts to a 10% max discount off msrp. While I certainly respect the decision they made, I do believe a fair amount of customers will move brands as this changes the price customers were willing to Pay before they won't pay now. I hope people stay loyal for rockys sake, but I guess we will have to see what the market decide. In terms on retail being the bread and butter for a brand I disagree. Mail order represents over 60% of the industry and the truth is the stores rely on fayalite and fayalite rely on stores. Just my .02
Does this go for the 601 line as well since Rocky owns half of that? I kept hearing about this big price drop and havent seen much except for ugly bands on what used to be classy looking smokes.
Also talking about Fuego Ive had the Delirium and the 777 maduro and thought both were really good.
I would love to see cigars dated like wine, thats a great idea. Ive always wondered how they put out the same cigars year after year.
Not a fan of Rocky, his cigars, or his business model, but at the same time, plenty of brands I do love have similar policies in place regarding MSRP, so whatever. That said, the brands I love that have such policies actually make cigars that are worth MSRP.
As for Pete and Tatuaje, the difference between his brand, and others that do limited releases, etc. is that his limited stuff may be awesome, but his core lines that are readily available, and easy to find are still fantastic cigars, and well supported. Someone like Andre from Viaje has his business model backwards, IMO, where his LE stuff is awesome, but his standard lines are nothing to write home about.
If you don't like the LE game, don't sweat it, and don't bother. The regular Tatuaje lines are fantastic smokes on their own merit... (Not that the LE tat stuff is THAT hard to get...)
I think some good points were made regarding everything said here....I'll admit I am a big tat fan and it can be a pain at times trying to get some of Pete's LEs...but at the same time, his regular smokes are pretty good and there is always a good supple of them available. Regarding Rocky Patel, not sure what's going on with his smokes but I have noticed a difference between the newer releases and old releases (which were gifted to me) which why I jumped on the deals which came out last year. I guess I just found the answer to that issue after reading this thread.
This explains a lot about my recent experience with my 2nd RP. Before I rant, I have a 4 pack of Edge maduro toros in the humi from a year ago sampler, Freaking Fantastic Smoke no 2 ways about it, delicious so I only have 1 left. So that led me to buy 2 singles of RP vintage 1990. I let them rest 2 months, and tested the 1st one. The ONLY cigar I smoked half way and thru out, ONLY cigar I gave up on. It was so bitter and had this strange metallic-acidic-awful bitter taste I tossed it. Tasted like urine almost. wait I know that taste! NVMIND. Tried the other one 3 weeks later thinking fluke, same exact awful taste. I hope somebody sends a link to Rocky regarding this discussion, he needs to get back to his real skillz at making fantastic cigars. Sad to see the dollar bill make someone ruin their name in the current cigar game. Best of luck to him and hope he changes his business plan.
Not a fan of Rocky, his cigars, or his business model, but at the same time, plenty of brands I do love have similar policies in place regarding MSRP, so whatever. That said, the brands I love that have such policies actually make cigars that are worth MSRP.
As for Pete and Tatuaje, the difference between his brand, and others that do limited releases, etc. is that his limited stuff may be awesome, but his core lines that are readily available, and easy to find are still fantastic cigars, and well supported. Someone like Andre from Viaje has his business model backwards, IMO, where his LE stuff is awesome, but his standard lines are nothing to write home about.
If you don't like the LE game, don't sweat it, and don't bother. The regular Tatuaje lines are fantastic smokes on their own merit... (Not that the LE tat stuff is THAT hard to get...)
I'd be willing to go out on a limb here (without having spoken to Kuz about it) and say not a single RP nor Gurkha is in either of our top 5's and probably not in our top 10's.
Jesus FuegoI've since discovered that it wasn't RP cigars that I liked it was Jesus Fuego. Again he doesn't have any cigars in my top 5 and only one that debateable for my top 10 but I know I can reach for a J. Fuego and enjoy in 9 times out of 10.
he is different on his own. i like him better not with patel.
madurofan:
nikostewart:
madurofan:
If you really want to get me on a rant just ask me how I feel about Pete Johnson and Tatuaje .... speaking of which I need to remove this tatuaje signature ...
Without Hijacking this thread, How do you feel about PJ and Tatuaje? Just interested. Thanks
Deep Breath ...
I used to be a total Tatuaje ****. Pete had the Midas touch for me, everything he did was awesome. Probably still is. I mean one of my top 3 cigars is still the Tat Cojonu 2003. His cigars are still good to me but his damned business model pisses me off. Without going overboard I'll explain. I chased down a Tat Black then the Ghost Cigar (El Truinfador) then first Halloween cigar. Now it seems everytime I turn around I'm supposed to be chasing down some new limited edition, hard to find cigar.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy a limited edition cigar if there is a reason for it, i.e. Carillo Short Run. If there is only enough tobacco to make 1000 cigars cool go for it. But if you're doing it just to have people chasing it down.
F**k You.
None of these limited cigars have truly limited tobacco or anything really that special to them. If you want to control who is selling them or create some mystique to them follow the Opus X model or Davidoff's model. Don't just be a pain in the @ss.
agreed 100%
pete is a great guy with great ideas but cigars are about relaxation, not work to find a rare one.
I don't mind chasing down Pete's limited editions. They rarely disappoint. Granted, I'm a sucker for tats. They hold 4 spots in my top ten list. The La Verite 2008 is everything I want in a cigar. I'd rather it be gone when the tobacco is used up than have it re-blended. Pete can just move on to making something else when that happens imo.
So the 1990 has always been one of my favorites, but I haven't had any in a year I suppose. The description online indicates that the wrapper is from the 90s, and the filler is 5 years old. Is this true? And if I bought one today, are you telling me I wouldn't like it as well as the ones I had 2 years ago? Say it ain't so! When did the orginal 1990 come out? When did it change? I've only been enjoying cigars for 3 years, and the 1990 was my first true love. I'm just curious if what I was enjoying 2 years ago was considered a "good one" by the rest of you, or if the change was more recent.
RP got me started in this hobby. The Indian Tabac line was readily available to me and the first real handmade I smoked. I always saw RP as my go to brand, like others have listed. I still like some RP blends but after I found out the circumstances between Jesus Fuego and RP, I decided to not purchase any RP sticks. My B&M has a great personal relationship with Fuego. Because of that, you only see a few RP sticks there.
Generally when a company sets a pricing structure this agressive, it's in an attempt to move to being seen as more "high end". I was in the car audio industry for a long time and I'm now in the car business and we do and see this all the time. The problem with his switch at this point in the game is that it's too late. I could see doing a few limited high end lines and freezing the pricing there and then letting that trickle down, but to go "all in" is silly. RP is the Toyota Camry of the business. His sticks are fine for the people who don't know any better and aren't willing to step out and try something different. Then there are those of us who prefer something different.
So the 1990 has always been one of my favorites, but I haven't had any in a year I suppose. The description online indicates that the wrapper is from the 90s, and the filler is 5 years old. Is this true? And if I bought one today, are you telling me I wouldn't like it as well as the ones I had 2 years ago? Say it ain't so! When did the orginal 1990 come out? When did it change? I've only been enjoying cigars for 3 years, and the 1990 was my first true love. I'm just curious if what I was enjoying 2 years ago was considered a "good one" by the rest of you, or if the change was more recent.
I used to love the 1990 as well and the last one I smoked was super bitter and built up a TON of tar. I had to chuck it, very disappointing. I'm not sure if it was a fluke or not but in correlation to this thread I'm thinking not. At the time I couldn't believe it, I was really bummed.
I still have enjoyed every sungrown from RP, although none of them have been purchased recently but aged from a while back.
Edge Sumatra is one of my fav sticks. Patel Brothers is a good smoke as well. I've had 1 sungrown so far and it was pretty good, have 2 that I just got from The Sniper that have about a year on them. Gonna have one soon and am pretty excited about it
I can't believe I read through all 4 pages of this BS. RP makes plenty of good cigars and some are available at a lower price point where a lot of us buy at. To say one makers blends are all hype or all crap is just BS. Since every smokers palate is different none of us taste the same thing when we smoke, I am calling BS on this whole discussion. I am sorry I will not be able to get cheap RP's anymore because I enjoyed them. BTW, I can't stand most of the stuff that comes from Drew Estate but that doesn't mean they do not produce quality cigars. You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of cigar snobs, WTF is wrong here. This is the forum where a bunch of brothers just enjoy smoking and talking sticks but now I am not so sure. I am going to keep smoking some stuff from RP and a lot of other cheaper cigars along with the sticks that cost a little extra that I like. Come to think of it, I am just going to smoke what I like and can afford. I can't believe this junk that I am reading here.
I can't believe I read through all 4 pages of this BS. RP makes plenty of good cigars and some are available at a lower price point where a lot of us buy at. To say one makers blends are all hype or all crap is just BS. Since every smokers palate is different none of us taste the same thing when we smoke, I am calling BS on this whole discussion. I am sorry I will not be able to get cheap RP's anymore because I enjoyed them. BTW, I can't stand most of the stuff that comes from Drew Estate but that doesn't mean they do not produce quality cigars. You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of cigar snobs, WTF is wrong here. This is the forum where a bunch of brothers just enjoy smoking and talking sticks but now I am not so sure. I am going to keep smoking some stuff from RP and a lot of other cheaper cigars along with the sticks that cost a little extra that I like. Come to think of it, I am just going to smoke what I like and can afford. I can't believe this junk that I am reading here.
Well said brother. I couldn't even read it all. Every blender and company has sticks I don't enjoy but that's no means to bash them.
I can't believe I read through all 4 pages of this BS. RP makes plenty of good cigars and some are available at a lower price point where a lot of us buy at. To say one makers blends are all hype or all crap is just BS. Since every smokers palate is different none of us taste the same thing when we smoke, I am calling BS on this whole discussion. I am sorry I will not be able to get cheap RP's anymore because I enjoyed them. BTW, I can't stand most of the stuff that comes from Drew Estate but that doesn't mean they do not produce quality cigars. You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of cigar snobs, WTF is wrong here. This is the forum where a bunch of brothers just enjoy smoking and talking sticks but now I am not so sure. I am going to keep smoking some stuff from RP and a lot of other cheaper cigars along with the sticks that cost a little extra that I like. Come to think of it, I am just going to smoke what I like and can afford. I can't believe this junk that I am reading here.
I don't see how I was bashing RP...but I suppose everyone is entitled to an opinion...
I didn't bash RP so I'm not offended. I still like some of the sticks, I just don't like the whole Jesus Fuego thing which is my reason for not buying them. I still like the Decade, 90, 92, ITC 10yr., and some other ITC stuff but no matter.
I DO think that if he wants to make the move to go "high end" and dictate pricing, he needs to be able to back that up with truly high end product. Padron does this the right way. Limited lines with the ratings to back them up. I'm not a big Padron fan but it's working for them.
So the 1990 has always been one of my favorites, but I haven't had any in a year I suppose. The description online indicates that the wrapper is from the 90s, and the filler is 5 years old. Is this true? And if I bought one today, are you telling me I wouldn't like it as well as the ones I had 2 years ago? Say it ain't so! When did the orginal 1990 come out? When did it change? I've only been enjoying cigars for 3 years, and the 1990 was my first true love. I'm just curious if what I was enjoying 2 years ago was considered a "good one" by the rest of you, or if the change was more recent.
the 1990 and 92 was out already when i started smoking 6-7 years ago. they were originally billed as "12 years of age" and "10 years of age" so my bet is that they came out in 2002 or 2003.
I can't believe I read through all 4 pages of this BS. RP makes plenty of good cigars and some are available at a lower price point where a lot of us buy at. To say one makers blends are all hype or all crap is just BS. Since every smokers palate is different none of us taste the same thing when we smoke, I am calling BS on this whole discussion. I am sorry I will not be able to get cheap RP's anymore because I enjoyed them. BTW, I can't stand most of the stuff that comes from Drew Estate but that doesn't mean they do not produce quality cigars. You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of cigar snobs, WTF is wrong here. This is the forum where a bunch of brothers just enjoy smoking and talking sticks but now I am not so sure. I am going to keep smoking some stuff from RP and a lot of other cheaper cigars along with the sticks that cost a little extra that I like. Come to think of it, I am just going to smoke what I like and can afford. I can't believe this junk that I am reading here.
whoah buddy. im not bashing them here. i did say they are not my taste and i did point out why i think their perception is what it is. it seem that you are the one the attack.
boys, boys, boys...if you like them...buy them...if you don't ..dont...I for one actually appreciate the sharing of other people's opinions, if it is bashing, well so be it, I will ignore that if I need to...so please keep sharing, as I think that is what these forums are about, esp. in this the 'general discussion' thread
You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of cigar snobs, WTF is wrong here. This is the forum where a bunch of brothers just enjoy smoking and talking sticks but now I am not so sure.
We are talking sticks, and some of us don't enjoy RP, that's all.
I can't believe I read through all 4 pages of this BS. RP makes plenty of good cigars and some are available at a lower price point where a lot of us buy at. To say one makers blends are all hype or all crap is just BS. Since every smokers palate is different none of us taste the same thing when we smoke, I am calling BS on this whole discussion. I am sorry I will not be able to get cheap RP's anymore because I enjoyed them. BTW, I can't stand most of the stuff that comes from Drew Estate but that doesn't mean they do not produce quality cigars. You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of cigar snobs, WTF is wrong here. This is the forum where a bunch of brothers just enjoy smoking and talking sticks but now I am not so sure. I am going to keep smoking some stuff from RP and a lot of other cheaper cigars along with the sticks that cost a little extra that I like. Come to think of it, I am just going to smoke what I like and can afford. I can't believe this junk that I am reading here.
Chill pill dude. No one is talking trash about anyone on the forum. If I can't express my opinion about Rocky and his less than savory business practices, then why would I want to participate in a forum for the discussion of cigars? I don't care if someone else love Rocky cigars. That's fine. To each their own. Smoke what you like!
I used the term "bash" in my first post, but it was jokingly. I thought it was evident. I still do. I think most of the posts here brought up some good issues, things I wasn't even aware of. It's also nice to hear that so many others have experienced the same issue I did. I was worried it was me for a long time.
Comments
To that end, investing in a lounge is a fantastic idea for a B&M cigar shop, for two huge reasons. For one, it gives customers a place to go and interact and adds a dimension to the experience that catalog/online sales cannot. But even more important, it actually uses the current anti-smoking climate as an ADVANTAGE rather than whining about it with a woe-is-me attitude. They're providing a place to go, and people will pay for that. Almost like a speakeasy during prohibition. You know those joints were making money hand over fist.
I used to like RP but honestly I haven't smoked a thing by him in over 2 years probably. I have tons of RP cigars in the humidors but they do not interest me at this time.
As for Tatuaje the limited editions are kind of annoying but what else is someone to do when they have a very limited amount of one kind of tobacco. I absolutely love the core brown line and reach for that more often then not. If you hate LE's I am sure your not a fan of Viaje either but again he has a fantastic core line.
-Bryan
They were. I've never read an official confirmation from anyone who would have direct inside knowledge on these sorts of things, but ever since the band change of the vintage series, they are nowhere near as good, in fact...something i can live easily without. I dont know if its simply that the yearly tobacco harvest wasnt as good as the previous or if RP started cutting corners on those cigars...but many/most who have tasted them since the band change would agree that they fell a few ranks on the qualitymeter.
Does this go for the 601 line as well since Rocky owns half of that? I kept hearing about this big price drop and havent seen much except for ugly bands on what used to be classy looking smokes.
Also talking about Fuego Ive had the Delirium and the 777 maduro and thought both were really good.
I would love to see cigars dated like wine, thats a great idea. Ive always wondered how they put out the same cigars year after year.
As for Pete and Tatuaje, the difference between his brand, and others that do limited releases, etc. is that his limited stuff may be awesome, but his core lines that are readily available, and easy to find are still fantastic cigars, and well supported. Someone like Andre from Viaje has his business model backwards, IMO, where his LE stuff is awesome, but his standard lines are nothing to write home about.
If you don't like the LE game, don't sweat it, and don't bother. The regular Tatuaje lines are fantastic smokes on their own merit... (Not that the LE tat stuff is THAT hard to get...)
1) Davidoff Maduro
2) Arturo Fuente OpusX
3) Mow Armada
4) Avo Domaine
5) LFD Airbender
6) Camacho Diploma Maduro
7) JdN Celebracion
8) Camacho Triple Maduro
9) LFD DL Maduro
10) JdN antano
he is different on his own. i like him better not with patel. agreed 100%
pete is a great guy with great ideas but cigars are about relaxation, not work to find a rare one.
Generally when a company sets a pricing structure this agressive, it's in an attempt to move to being seen as more "high end". I was in the car audio industry for a long time and I'm now in the car business and we do and see this all the time. The problem with his switch at this point in the game is that it's too late. I could see doing a few limited high end lines and freezing the pricing there and then letting that trickle down, but to go "all in" is silly. RP is the Toyota Camry of the business. His sticks are fine for the people who don't know any better and aren't willing to step out and try something different. Then there are those of us who prefer something different.
I still have enjoyed every sungrown from RP, although none of them have been purchased recently but aged from a while back.
"Long ashes my friends."
I DO think that if he wants to make the move to go "high end" and dictate pricing, he needs to be able to back that up with truly high end product. Padron does this the right way. Limited lines with the ratings to back them up. I'm not a big Padron fan but it's working for them.
We are talking sticks, and some of us don't enjoy RP, that's all.
-Bryan