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pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
Wondering myself at how low people can get, especially with how the GOP especially has been on a hunt to destroy woman's rights when it comes to their own bodies, now it seems it is getting much worse.

I find it absolutely astounding at how as a party the GOP seem to be so against government intrusion into private life, however they love to use the govt to take away reproductive rights from woman, among other things.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges
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Comments

  • xmacroxmacro Posts: 3,402
    Sooo . . . . her constitutional right includes doing cocaine that resulted in the death of her baby? DAMN THOSE EVIL GOP!!

    From what I gather of the article, she wasn't trying to abort it - she never said she wanted to, and she actually tried to carry it to term, but she unintentionally killed it by doing coke while pregnant. This article has nothing to do with abortion. What's the difference if she killed it in the womb by coke vs having the baby and killing it with coke after the birth? It's still a murder

    Depraved heart is the same as reckless disregard - it means the person didn't intend the murder, but their actions were so wildly outrageous, that they should've easily foreseen the consequences. The law here isn't being stretch at all; it's the UK Guardian and abortion groups who are straining credibility

  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    .
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    they aren't legally allowed to have an abortion at 36 weeks and a 36 week baby is at full maturation and able to survive out of the womb so I would say she murdered her baby. she may as well made the baby snort it herself.

    I have no tolerance for people that harm children, born or unborn, regardless of what week of pregnancy they may be in. she needs to go to jail.

    I find it funny that it's a war atrocity to have an enemy stab the belly of a pregnant woman to kill a child but it's legal to do it surgically and not only legal, but a right they have to their body. Screw that, stupid selfish people.
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,131 ✭✭
    Yea, this story has about as much to do with abortion as the speed limits on the highways do. The pro-choice group takes their fight way beyond the protection of "women's rights" in this case. The first woman overdosed on coke and killed a baby. Not a fetus that she medically terminated, a baby inside her that she killed with an illegal drug. Any rational person should see the problem with this regardless of their views on abortion.
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    see what I did there?
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,023 ✭✭
    Can a squirrel get rabies?? Seems we have a crazed one on our hands.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    You can' tell a woman what to do with her own body, but the liberals want you in their Healthcare? Your mama was prolife dawlin!
  • wwhwangwwhwang Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    Wait. How the hell is this an abortion issue, pheebs? These women weren't charged with murder after an abortion. The women mentioned were a cocaine addict, an attempted suicide, and a meth head that just happened to have babies when they were committing these acts. None of these women even said that they wanted an abortion.

    No evidence of any abortion issue and yet ultra-feminists are saying that MS and AL are attacking constitutional rights?
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    wwestern:
    see what I did there?
    i see what you did there.


    but seriously, im not sure how prosecuting a woman who ODed on cocaine and ended up killer her fetus that would have been viable on its own is violating her rights. i am also not sure what this has to do with abortion.


    pheebs, i am a pro-choice person, but i cant see the leap you have going on here. seriously, this just looks like a non-sequitor excuse to showcase blind hatred towards a group of people that you do not agree with.


    sorry man, this is just a bit too much.




    the cases outlined here all seemed to have wanted to carry to term, but they insisted on using an illegal and dangerous substance or partake in dangerous/harmful activity. this substance abuse/action was not just effecting her but was effecting her child as well.
    heck, im all for legalizing drugs (all drugs not just weed), AND im pro choice, and i think the action of those women is wrong and should be prosecuted.
    the woman on cocaine is forcing her kid to have an addiction before the child is born, and that is the best case. in this case (the worst one) that drug killed the kid.

    if you feel that this is an ok practice, and is not violating the rights of the child, then there is seriously something wrong with you.

    seriously man, what is wrong with you ?
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,560 ✭✭
    I'm pro-choice too. I'm all for asking the unborn baby if he/she wants to live or die. Unfortunately you'll have to wait a significant amount of time after birth until they can make that decision. As far as does a woman have a right to kill a child, under no circumstances.
  • VulchorVulchor Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
    Edit....Wrong thread, sorry. Of course, lets be cruel here and try to think about the burder that kid would have been on society----I mean the welfare and all. We cant have it both ways.....gotta save money somewhere in this defecit, no?

    I agree its not an abortion issue per se here, however this always gets me to a paradox in the pro-life/conservative movement..,...You want less govt, less spending, less "bums on welfare"----but you dont want uneducated, poor, addicted, "loser" mothers to be able to abort the fetuses that are going to start the next generation of what youre complaining about. What gives?
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    I just want people to be responsible on the whole. don't make babies if you can't feed them. if you do, then step your ass up and take care of the child. make sure they go to school. be a responsible person for your child's sake. I don't have a college degree. I have 3 kids and had them after I got married. I get absolutely and have never received any government support. I don't get tax breaks, free food, or cheap housing. If I can do it, someone else can as well. That's my take on the whole "big government" thing. They never helped me so why do they need to help anyone else. I know that sounds very cruel but it's the truth and its frustrating to watch handouts going to my wife's cousin who made every wrong decision, yet we qualify for nothing because we've tried so hard to make a good life for ourselves. It's kinda de-motivating.
  • dowjr1dowjr1 Posts: 600
    I like what dennisking says more and more. He is right on and I +1 on his comments. For those of you who think life is about self responsibility and being accountable for one's actions (as opposed to a self entitlement and things being someone else's fault mentality) then you better get ready for the upcoming presidential elections. BO is not on our side.
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Edit....Wrong thread, sorry. Of course, lets be cruel here and try to think about the burder that kid would have been on society----I mean the welfare and all. We cant have it both ways.....gotta save money somewhere in this defecit, no?

    I agree its not an abortion issue per se here, however this always gets me to a paradox in the pro-life/conservative movement..,...You want less govt, less spending, less "bums on welfare"----but you dont want uneducated, poor, addicted, "loser" mothers to be able to abort the fetuses that are going to start the next generation of what youre complaining about. What gives?
    It's 2011 your telling me these folks can't find an easier way of birth control? Lets not get into the bullshit arguement of cost of said birth control because it has to be cheaper than an abortion. Plus most health departments offer free birth control. How bout just a touch of personal responsibility? I don't think abortion should be illegal but I do think you will pay for it in the afterlife. This however was not abortion it was intentional, and without concern for the baby.
  • VulchorVulchor Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
    Points taken, but we need to stay on the topic I alluded to if we are to discuss it. I agree with you Dennis, 100%----but if they DO NOT stand up and care for the kids...then the rest of us have to...so again, as I said----isnt it better not to have them around in the first place?

    Western, I understand your statement, but I consider "paying for it in the afterlife" about as realistic as a Harry Potter movie---and I dont think afterlife and real world monetary cost need to be in the same sentence. So again, wouldnt it be better to have the fetus gone, then to have to pay for it when it becomes a "hatched fetus". I know I sound like an @$$ here, but Im tired of hearing people not want abortion, but then wonder why they also have generations of welfare families. Maybe we should be encouraging more abortion?
  • JonathanEJonathanE Posts: 401
    I +2 on DennisKing's comments.

    If I make a choice to do something that injures another, I am held responsible. The sad fact of pregnancy is that the mother's choices do just that - they affect the baby! If she makes a choice concerning herself that damages the baby then she should be held responsible.

    No, that's not fair. ...but what are you going to do about it? Get over it or find another way to have babies. A mother's personal decisions are directly linked to the well being of the baby so, for 9 months, her personal freedoms are restricted on account of her pregnancy.

    Rape is about the only way to unwillingly conceive a baby. If a woman makes a bad decision and conceives, the limitation of what would otherwise have been her personal freedom is a consequence she brought on herself. (Not that there wasn't two people involved, the dude in the equation shares equal blame, what's not fair about it is that the woman shares half the blame and 100% of the consequence in terms of personal freedom.)

    Fair or not, deal with it. Life aint fair.

    JDE

  • JonathanEJonathanE Posts: 401
    Vulchor:
    Points taken, but we need to stay on the topic I alluded to if we are to discuss it. I agree with you Dennis, 100%----but if they DO NOT stand up and care for the kids...then the rest of us have to...so again, as I said----isnt it better not to have them around in the first place?

    Western, I understand your statement, but I consider "paying for it in the afterlife" about as realistic as a Harry Potter movie---and I dont think afterlife and real world monetary cost need to be in the same sentence. So again, wouldnt it be better to have the fetus gone, then to have to pay for it when it becomes a "hatched fetus". I know I sound like an @$$ here, but Im tired of hearing people not want abortion, but then wonder why they also have generations of welfare families. Maybe we should be encouraging more abortion?
    Maybe we should encourage forced sterylization of parents who conceive children that they can't properly care for. Don't like that idea? Well, think about it this way. Who's fault was it that the baby was conceived? Mommy and Daddy? Well, then match consequence with fault; don't victimize the innocent party.

    JDE

  • roland_7707roland_7707 Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭
    I don't know if it is medically possible, but tie the tubes of the females or give the boys a vicectomy at birth, and when they turn 21 and can pass a test showing they are capable people, both the men and women, they can become parents.
    One God, One Truth
  • JonathanEJonathanE Posts: 401
    That's a good idea but it's kind of guilty until proven innocent and we're supposed to be the opposite of that, haha. I was thinking of reversible sterilization after you were proven irresponsible to prevent more of the same. Then, if you turn your life around, AND you can afford a reversal, then you're back in business.

    JDE

  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    roland_7707:
    I don't know if it is medically possible, but tie the tubes of the females or give the boys a vicectomy at birth, and when they turn 21 and can pass a test showing they are capable people, both the men and women, they can become parents.
    Roland my brother, you just won my vote for president! "ROLAND 2012!!! ROLAND 2012!!!"

  • roland_7707roland_7707 Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the consideration, but I'll pass. I'll leave that to the dishonorable people that can lie, cheat and steal better than me.
    But I was thinking on my last post, if we did that, then we might not have very many americans here in the next little while, because alot of people these days are just stupid.
    just saying.
    One God, One Truth
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    JonathanE:
    Maybe we should encourage forced sterylization of parents who conceive children that they can't properly care for. Don't like that idea? Well, think about it this way. Who's fault was it that the baby was conceived? Mommy and Daddy? Well, then match consequence with fault; don't victimize the innocent party.

    JDE

    That's a scary "land of the free" picture your painting my friend.
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Points taken, but we need to stay on the topic I alluded to if we are to discuss it. I agree with you Dennis, 100%----but if they DO NOT stand up and care for the kids...then the rest of us have to...so again, as I said----isnt it better not to have them around in the first place?

    Western, I understand your statement, but I consider "paying for it in the afterlife" about as realistic as a Harry Potter movie---and I dont think afterlife and real world monetary cost need to be in the same sentence. So again, wouldnt it be better to have the fetus gone, then to have to pay for it when it becomes a "hatched fetus". I know I sound like an @$$ here, but Im tired of hearing people not want abortion, but then wonder why they also have generations of welfare families. Maybe we should be encouraging more abortion?
    Did you just refer to an infant as a "hatched fetus"? Also at the point of "hatching" it goes from abortion to blatent killing. I understand you don't believe in god sir, that was not the point of my post at all.

    Have you thought of this from the other end? Maybe if we end welfare the problem will cure itself. No one enjoys suffering, and people will do what is necasary to stop suffering. By enabling people to maintain a level of comfort while they're at their lowest you kinda take away their incentive to bring thereselves up.
  • VulchorVulchor Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
    Or maybe if you end welfare entirely you will find those babies on the street dead of starvation or exposure since now that cant be supported after birth or aborted prior to it.
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Or maybe if you end welfare entirely you will find those babies on the street dead of starvation or exposure since now that cant be supported after birth or aborted prior to it.
    Maybe. A more logical view would probably be that charity and such would carry children while giving the deadbeat parents a nice dose of get your *** together. Americans won't let children starve in africa what makes you think they'll just sit around and watch it happen here?

    Not sure why your saying they can't be aborted no where in any of my posts did I say abortion should be illegal. I will say tax payers should in no way every pay for it.
  • JonathanEJonathanE Posts: 401
    wwestern:
    JonathanE:
    Maybe we should encourage forced sterylization of parents who conceive children that they can't properly care for. Don't like that idea? Well, think about it this way. Who's fault was it that the baby was conceived? Mommy and Daddy? Well, then match consequence with fault; don't victimize the innocent party.

    JDE

    That's a scary "land of the free" picture your painting my friend.
    Hey, sorry for the lack of sarcasm communicated in that post. I was following up on the concept of consequences resting with the perpetrator (parents) instead of on the victim (unborn baby) and what that might look like. I don't like either solution.

    JDE

  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    wwestern:
    Vulchor:
    Or maybe if you end welfare entirely you will find those babies on the street dead of starvation or exposure since now that cant be supported after birth or aborted prior to it.
    Maybe. A more logical view would probably be that charity and such would carry children while giving the deadbeat parents a nice dose of get your *** together. Americans won't let children starve in africa what makes you think they'll just sit around and watch it happen here?

    Not sure why your saying they can't be aborted no where in any of my posts did I say abortion should be illegal. I will say tax payers should in no way every pay for it.
    Kids aren't starving in Africa anymore? When did that happen?

    I get the point you were making, but there are kids starving in Africa AND in N. America right now as we discuss this.

    Is there ANY place or time in history where you can show that charity in the manner you described has worked? Seriously. I can't think of ANY, but I may be wrong so please if anyone knows of such an place and period of time please enlighten us.

    I should add here that I agree 100% with your last statement. Tax payers never got her pregnant, they shouldn't be on the hook for the cost of an abortion either. If charity were to pay for an abortion, would that save taxpayers untold amounts in the future? Not saying I advocate this, but it is something to consider. There's charity and then there is charity. Or maybe this is a case where charity really should begin at home, for the benefit of all later on?
  • xmacroxmacro Posts: 3,402
    Charity wiping out a problem? It's never happened, but they've helped millions of people. Then again, the same can be said of Gov't social programs - they never end and they've never completely solved a problem.

    That said, there are more than 500 charities in the US, with untold trillions running through them (handy url: http://www.charitywatch.org/toprated.html).

    I think it's safe to say that there are plenty of Gov't agencies that can be shut down, and simply allow the charities to take over; taxpayer dollars can be spent on better things that doing something that's already being done.

  • lilwing88lilwing88 Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭
    If Pheebs had a website similar to DrudgeReport, the link to this article would read: "GOP crams blow down a baby's throat and kills it..."
    Guns don't kill people, Daddies with pretty daughters do…..
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    JonathanE:
    wwestern:
    JonathanE:
    Maybe we should encourage forced sterylization of parents who conceive children that they can't properly care for. Don't like that idea? Well, think about it this way. Who's fault was it that the baby was conceived? Mommy and Daddy? Well, then match consequence with fault; don't victimize the innocent party.

    JDE

    That's a scary "land of the free" picture your painting my friend.
    Hey, sorry for the lack of sarcasm communicated in that post. I was following up on the concept of consequences resting with the perpetrator (parents) instead of on the victim (unborn baby) and what that might look like. I don't like either solution.

    JDE

    Sorry JDE lol
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