SCHIP Tax

Krieg

I heard that the new congress is going to vote on this tax increase again in the new session. This tax would raise the price of cigars tremendously! According to some of the articles I have read, it would raise the price of a cigar anywhere from $1 up to $10 per cigar. I believe Bush vetoed it twice, but I doubt Obama will. Also, it might be a good idea write your congressman and Senator, here is the link for you if you would like to find out who your representative is, you can also email him from the site. I believe this tax will hurt the cigar industry which already faces tough challenges, not to mention all the our favorite cigar shops this will affect. Please take a moment and send an email to your reps urging them not to vote for this tax increase. The House of Rep - https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml for the Senate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Tumbler

As expected, an attempt by the U.S. House (on January 23) to override the President's second veto of an expansion to the State Children's Health Insurance Program failed to gain a two-thirds majority. The proposed SCHIP legislation, if enacted, would have raised the federal excise tax on cigars by up to 6,000%. Although the current SCHIP program was previously extended through March 2009, with no increase in the cigar tax, it is still possible that another attempt to expand the program by raising taxes on tobacco products will be made before that time. However, for the time being, the opprobrious proposal to increase the federal excise tax on cigars by such a ridiculous amount appears to be dead in the water. This week, U.S. cigar smokers have a legitimate reason to light one up and really celebrate!

Yes, thanks for calling this to our intention. I will read more and respond accordingly. I believe you are right that Obama would be more prone to the sin tax. But no, I am not opposed to smoking more than one cigar at a time...

cubbychubby

Actually Bush vetoed it twice. Obama's team has stated that BO would not veto. Bummer.

Krieg

cubbychubby:

Actually Bush vetoed it twice. Obama's team has stated that BO would not veto. Bummer.

That's exactly why we need to contact our house reps and senators to make sure they vote down the bill before it ever makes it to Obama's desk...I don't know about you, but I already pay enough in taxes.

j0z3r

From what I've read, the proposed ceiling on the tax would be $3 per cigar. That is still a ridiculous amount, and the whole idea is ridiculous....to fund a program purely with revenue from an industry with ever decreasing sales sounds to me like a plan that is destined to fail. Personally, I'd rather see a higher sales tax, which would more than likely generate more revenue, than a tax that singles out one facet of an industry. That's not to say I want a higher sales tax, but if a tax has to be had somewhere, I'd rather see it there.

Tumbler

I agree. I really like to see them do away with income tax completely, and go to higher sales tax. I didn't like Forbes much, but I liked that idea from him. There is only so much money in the kettle - to do away with the IRS would free up some revenue. It'll never happen - to many gov't employees.

Has anyone wrote up anything pertaining to the proposed mandate in legal-ese? I would be happy to cut and paste and affix my name - as I assume most would here.

kuzi16

there is a bigger issue than the cost of cigars/tobacco here.

the program will only increase in size because that has been the trend in both government programs and the population. with an increasing program and a decreasing population that has anything to do with tobacco the funds needed for the program will be harder and harder to gather. the system that is being set up is flawed from the start. It is a bad idea that cannot work as stated on paper.


...and its the highest percentage tax increase on any product in US history.

but, elections have consequences. this is what we have to deal with when the President, House, and Congress are all democrats. Tax and spend. Government programs.
hold on to your wallets....

cubbychubby

Yep...well said.

j0z3r

Well stated kuzi...as I mentioned in my reply, I feel this is a program destined to fail. To add to that, I don't think the government will let it fail, they will just invent revenue from other places.

You're absolutely right that the issue is bigger than tobacco costs, I addressed that in particular being as it is probably the most relevant part of the issue to this forum. There are a whole host of reasons I don't like this idea, chief among them being that it stinks of socialism and I think there is already enough of that going on, that and the cost of socialized medicine, as you pointed out, can only go in one direction.

rwheelwright

Better stock up now. I've got a head start. :-)

Krieg

I just emailed my congressman and both my Senators about this Tax legislation, if I get a response, I will let everyone know what they say.

phobicsquirrel

I'm just speechless. What a crap idea. For a guy who speaks of making change Obama is really pissing me off. This is just crap, that's all I have to say. Well if anything I doubt this (if passed) will go into effect immediately, but still it just is wrong. To be honest I didn't think there was such hatred towards cigars. Cigs I could see since so many smoke them and it's such a big business but cigars are already so expensive. There's a talk radio station here that every friday has a congressman on it, I think I'm going to give it a call and bring up this issue.

Rob1110

It's going to get to the point where it'll be cheaper to buy illegal and support a communist regime, vs....well, what's this called again?

dtrdwngs

A 6,000% increase on anything is ludicrous. The CRA has a great video clip about how many workers in Honduras, Nicaragua and the DR will be affected. They estimate massive job losses due to decreased sales. Also, even if sales did remain the same, the total amount of revenue raised is estimated to be only 5% of the SCHIP funds needed the first year and it will only increase each year. I would not blame anyone for going to canada to buy stogies or have them smuggled in through Mexico. I don't want to have to be a criminal but this is getting out of hand. I know they are saying a cap of $3 per stick, but that is an extra $60 per box! People won't quit smoking cigars, they will just get them cheaper another way. Look at prohibition, people didn't stop drinking and the country lost a lot of money fighting sales and production of alcohol. How many tobacco shops will go under if this passes? How many cigar companies will fold? How many workers in other countries will have to find a new way to feed the family? Write and or call your senator and congressman. Join the CRA. Our voices need to be heard.

Krieg

phobicsquirrel:

I'm just speechless. What a crap idea. For a guy who speaks of making change Obama is really pissing me off. This is just crap, that's all I have to say. Well if anything I doubt this (if passed) will go into effect immediately, but still it just is wrong. To be honest I didn't think there was such hatred towards cigars. Cigs I could see since so many smoke them and it's such a big business but cigars are already so expensive. There's a talk radio station here that every friday has a congressman on it, I think I'm going to give it a call and bring up this issue.

I agree 100%, don't forget you can also email your reps, beyond all else, the one and only thing that the politicians want is to be re-elected, so if they know that alot of there constituents are mad about this, then maybe it won't pass.

dtrdwngs

This came from CRA website. Tuesday, November 11, 2008 Australian Case Study on the Impact of Taxation and Legislation of Cigars Australian cigar writer Samuel Spurr reports on the impact of taxation and legislation on the Australian cigar industry. "The Australian cigar community faces some of the most stringent government legislation and taxation in the world. It continues to push ahead though, despite such intervention. Current American freedoms must be appreciated and fought for, for the sake of fellow cigar lovers around the world. The threat posed by anti-smoking groups and government taxation and legislation must not be slept on." Imagine a government tax of US$122 per pound of tobacco. Attendees at events such as Cigar Aficionado’s ‘Big Smoke’ and the IPCPR’s annual trade show can no longer enjoy cigars as smoking is illegal at all indoor venues. Tobacco advertising is banned, and manufacturers cannot sponsor corporate, community or sporting events. Cigar enthusiasts cannot light up in their favourite cigar shop, whilst smoking at some public parks and beaches is banned. This is not an imagined scenario for Australian cigar suppliers, retailers and consumers. This is current state of tobacco taxation and anti-tobacco legislation and all involved with premium tobacco have had to deal with such government taxation and legislation for the better part of the last 20 years. Taxation Australian cigar smokers have paid a premium price for cigars for some time. Australia’s federal tobacco tax is approximately AUD$300 per kilogram or USD$130 per pound. This dollar amount is not static, instead rising twice per year in line with inflation. Local consumers have been ‘conditioned’ for many years to the retail price of premium tobacco. Because of this ‘conditioning’ Australian cigar smokers continue to purchase cigars and the taxes have not had a ‘loss of business’ impact. Australian retailers report that some clients may purchase less in terms of volume due to budgetary constraints however as a rule they will spend what they are comfortable with. For the American cigar retailer, proposed taxes such as SCHIP may have a ‘loss of business’ impact as American cigar lovers are not prepared for such immediate price hikes. Anti-tobacco Legislation It can be argued that government intervention through legislation has had and will continue to have the biggest impact on cigar enthusiasts. Australia has taken some hits and has survived but if similar legislation continues to be introduced in the US, losses can unfortunately be expected. Australian distributors, retailers and consumers would agree that the biggest impact has been the loss of entertainment venues which allow indoor smoking. Indoor smoking bans introduced across Australia in 2007, made no exemptions for cigar lounges or tobacconists. Despite this, cigar lovers continue to find pubs or bars which provide sheltered outdoor facilities that comply with new legislation. Australia’s predominantly temperate climate generally allows for year-round outdoor smoking – something not true of some parts of North America. The Future Despite the impact of legislation and taxation, the Australian cigar industry is looking forward. Cigar events continue to be well-attended, doing much to improve the humble cigar’s public perception. Preparedness is however, still a strong requirement for those commercially involved with cigars. Established retailers continue to prosper but new retailers without a loyal customer base may struggle to be viable. Those retailers that remain are innovative and maintain the highest of customer service standards. The Australian cigar community faces some of the most stringent government legislation and taxation in the world. It continues to push ahead though, despite such intervention. Current American freedoms must be appreciated and fought for, for the sake of fellow cigar lovers around the world. The threat posed by anti-smoking groups and government taxation and legislation must not be slept on. Samuel Spurr is Australia’s premier cigar writer, contributing to European Cigar Cult Journal and a number of cigar industry publications. His blog, Inlumino Cigar News Australia, keeps Aussie cigar smokers up to date with news, events and reviews. Posted by Cigar Rights of America at 12:29 PM

dtrdwngs

By the way, check out the link to CRA, there are 2 videos on here that we should all watch. http://www.cigarrights.org/issue.htm

phobicsquirrel

I for one don't get it, most if not a lot of politicians smoke cigars. It just doesn't make sense. At any rate any organization won't do anything, obviously the CRA or whatever cigar rights organization isn't doing it's job.

kuzi16

its not about money, Its about control.

this "small tax increase to benefit the children" wont effect the rich in the congress or senate. But it will effect us and cause us to change the way we think and operate. it will make us "get in line" with the way they think.

dtrdwngs

Did any of you go to the CRA site and check out the videos? If you did, what did you think?

kuzi16

a few months ago i posted this thread: http://www.cigar.com/cs/forums/thread/24738.aspx

Krieg

kuzi16:

its not about money, Its about control.

this "small tax increase to benefit the children" wont effect the rich in the congress or senate. But it will effect us and cause us to change the way we think and operate. it will make us "get in line" with the way they think.

This is a huge sign that our Govt is out of control when they start using the police power of Government to tax us in order to change our behavior, where in the Constitution does it say that Government has the right to do that?

phobicsquirrel

Some interesting info. Seems like "children" are used in any way imaginable for tax increases. Though all this money, where does it go? In Oregon we've had several tax increase for the children and schools. Though all through the 90's I never saw any change in the programs. Seems as though the money didn't help anything. You would think people would learn and not vote for these things. Though one would think this kind of law should be voted on.

Krieg

I got a response from my congrassman: Dear Chris: Thank you for contacting me with your concerns regarding the current state of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), or as it is called in the state of Georgia, PeachCare. I appreciate having the benefit of your views and welcome this chance to respond. Georgia's PeachCare program provides medical insurance for 270,000 children whose family income is less than 235 percent of the federal poverty level. This is a testament to the strength of the PeachCare program in the state of Georgia and how important it is for Congress to act in order to ensure the program's solvency. As a physician for nearly 30 years, I am a strong supporter of the SCHIP program. Sadly, loopholes in the SCHIP program have been exploited in recent years, compromising the mission of the program. For example, many states have filed waivers with the federal government to ask permission to use SCHIP funds to cover new populations for which the program was not intended. This practice undermines the financial integrity of SCHIP and takes money away from states like Georgia. I voted to pass a continuing resolution that will fund the SCHIP Program through November 16 this year. I am also co-sponsoring an 18 month extension bill of the SCHIP bill, H.R. 3584, that will ensure that our nation's children - including the children in Georgia covered under the PeachCare program - will not go one single day without health insurance. Rest assured I plan on being a leader in the effort to reauthorize SCHIP. I will advocate for commonsense reforms to strengthen the program and make sure funds will be available to provide healthcare to-first and foremost-the population this program was intended to help: low-income children. Thank you again for taking the time to contact me. If you feel that I may be of additional assistance on this, or any other matter of importance to you, please do not hesitate to contact me. You may also contact me via my email at gingrey.ga@mail.house.gov, or log your ideas and opinions on my website: www.house.gov/gingrey.

Bad Andy

phobicsquirrel:

I for one don't get it, most if not a lot of politicians smoke cigars. It just doesn't make sense.

But it does make sense, they are politicians, they make the rules not live by them. Elitism, arrogance, and they make more money so they can afford the tax increase on cigars if they actually bought them. I'm sure they get a lot for free.

phobicsquirrel

Krieg, thanks for that but once again nothing I didn't know. Didn't really mention why or if what is being done is constitutional nor is it really the way to do it. I may be conceived as an ass but I could care less about a program, and program that continues to TAX people or things when the only way to really bring money into a system is to sell things and make things. Wow what a concept. And I gathered that he could give 2 craps about your concern. Seems like whenever someone mentioned "kids" things go in an uproar. Somehow the whole concept of "survival of the fittest" comes to mind.. Why should I have to pay the difference for people's mistakes. I've worked very hard, very hard to get where I'm at and when I was in the dumps NOTHING was up for grabs, and I'm not going to go down that road to why I wasn't able to get aid but making me pay more money for things isn't the way.

Krieg

Looks like they are going to be voting on SCHIP next week...if you haven't written your rep, now is your chance! "The Democrats are getting straight to work on passing their agendas for Obama to approve once sworn in. And as soon as next week, the Congress will be debating a children's healthcare bill. Otherwise known as SCHIP. You'll remember that SCHIP passed the Congress twice in 2007 and it was vetoed twice. Now, we are playing a different ball game. Next Tuesday or Wednesday, expect a vote for the program, which is described by democrat lawmakers as "providing health insurance for children in families that earn too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to afford coverage." Why can't they just call it what it is, folks? It's welfare. And many of these people who cannot afford coverage .. how many of you want to bet that they have big flat-screen televisions, cell phones and a brand new car with huge payments ... plus other assorted luxury items. Remember that our definition of "poverty" in this country is becoming synonymous with the size of your flat screen TV, not your ability to obtain food and shelter. I've said this before and I will say it again, this SCHIP nonsense is just a Trojan Horse .. what these politicians are really after is establishing universal healthcare in this country. And this isn't just me being all "glass half empty." This is straight from the mouth of Henry Waxman. He says that passing the SCHIP bill next week is a "down payment on national health insurance." Did you get that? This is just the beginning. I hope you are ready to get back into the thick of things. These politicians have a goal .. and that goal is to make you dependent on the government for health care. Once they have control of your health care, they have control of you." www.boortz.com

kuzi16

who to get in contact with:

The Senate sorted by state, if im not mistaken

rwheelwright

I just read on a site that this will most likely pass. Now, I can't post the link because it is a competitors site but they are pretty sure it will pass.

jlmarta

Talk about pointless - - I live in California. Our two senators are Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer. Now, I know this is going to sound sexist but can you see either of them being cigar smokers?

I didn't think so.

Marty

phobicsquirrel

coming soon to a state near you, AIR tax. Yes after years of research and millions of tax payer money the govt has found out how much air a citizen uses and you will be now taxed per check.