Norway Attacks
Vulchor
Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
Why is it that after terror, of any kind, we are always ready to talk about Muslims---rag heads---camel jockeys---and all the other names we use. HOWEVER, after the terrible weekend in Norway...why is no one talking about how vile and inhumane the Christians are? I realize this is an isolated incident....but it just struck me today for some reason (head's been a little out of it lately) that no one was talking about Crazy Christian Fundamentalists the way we woudl if this guy was Ackhmed Bentu Aliakibi
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The question should be why does the western world jump up and down on normal muslims for what the fuckwits do and not why don't we jump up and down on christians for what other fuckwits do.
Bombs involving civilians is a forte' of Muslim extremists, who've twisted their religion and declared that God wants them to kill all the infidels. See: 9/11, NYC, Sweden, Philliphines, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Iran, etc.
Whereas the Christian hierarchy (eg - Vatican, bishops, etc) have disavowed violence, preaching "turn the other cheek", Muslim clergy in the middle easte routinely preach "kill the infidels where you find them" - it's so common in some mosques that it's heretical, a death sentence, to preach a desire for peace. That's why you think of Muslims when you hear of bombing, because they've twisted their religion and earned the label the way the IRA earned the label.
The Oklahoma City bombing perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh bombing was in 1995. When it happened, I dont remember Christians taking to the streets in droves to celebrate, or coming out of the woodwork to praise the attack and call for holy war against Federal employees.
A couple days ago, in 2011, some moron blows up a bunch of people at a political camp / rally / whatever you want to call it. I dont recall hearing about Christians sanctioning the attack en masse, or Christian religious leaders praising the slaughter of innocents as a great vicotry in the jihad against the infidel Norwegians.
2011 - 1995 = 16 years. I think we could safely call these two "isolated" incidents.
These two attacks share no common goal I can see (and I will admit freely I have not followed the Norway killings closely at all). Certainly not any sort of "our religion or death" mandate.
Muslim extremists have been in the news on at LEAST a weekly basis as far back as I can remember in my 40 years, somewhere in the world, for killing (usually innocents, since they are much easier to kill that people who are trained, armed and prepared (read: military or police)) in the name of their religion, with EXACTLY the "our religion or death" message used as a justification.
Weekly vs twice in 16 years.
A worldwide religious jihad vs no connected reason other than obvious mental conditions.
And people would insinuate there is a bias towards Christians and against Muslims?
As a Christian, I find this offensive.
As an intelligent (debatable I know!) human being, I find it infuriating.
I don't have a problem with the believers of Islam as long as they are NOT orthodox! Excuse me for saying so but if Allah wants me dead simply because I don't buy his religion then self defense says that when Allah - or any of his executors - come knocking on my door that I'm going to bring down the hammer on 43 grains of H110 behind a 300 grain hollow point. 'Nuff said.
JDE
Do you see ANY Christians (or anyone for that matter) celebrating in the streets in response to the Norway attacks (or Oklahoma City bombing since that was brought up too)? No, you don't/didn't.
Did you see any Muslims celebrating in the streets all over the world after the 9/11 attacks? Yes, you did.
The view of Christianity is that salvation is only reached through a definable savior. But that salvation is unconditional.. anyone can ask for it.
This view sets up a externalized salvation for those that believe to ask for by choice.
2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
There is no such view in Islamic teaching. In Islam everyone goes to hell and the only way to be removed from hell is if your good deeds out way your bad deeds or martyrdom.
Sura 19:71-72 "There is not one among you who shall not pass through hell; such is the absolute decree of your Lord. We will deliver those who fear Us, and leave the wrongdoers there, on their knees."
Long and short of it in Christianity one only has to ask for the individual to obtain salvation.
In Islam one has to follow religious law or be a martyr to obtain it.
On the other hand, you had a few people do something that was obviously very much in step with the sensibilities of the group. IE, 9/11 and the Muslim celebrations that followed.
In one case you have the group rejecting the actions of the supposed group member but, on the other hand, you have the group standing behind the individual's actions. With this in mind how is it fair to say that Christians, as a group, deserve to be given the same treatment by the media as do Muslims?
The Muslims get what they ask for in terms of public sentiment, IMO. Christians do too!
JDE
Now that the disclaimer's out of the way, I will have to say that I agree with JonathanE and Sniper. Orthodox Islam WAS a religion of peace when Muhammad and his followers were the clear minority in the Middle East. However, after the Muslims gained control of the region, the Muslims slaughtered everyone that would not convert to Islam. Their biggest victims were the Jews. This is why you will see the peaceful, tolerant verses at the front of the Quran (or Koran) and the violent teachings that are very prevalent in the Middle East (such as "do not take Christians and Jews as friends" or "strike the head of the infidel off where you see him") that directly contradict his earlier teachings.
However, when you examine the Bible, you will never see a passage that commands Christians or Jews to strike down unbelievers. Most Biblical teachings tell you to turn the other cheek, obey the 10 Commandments, and treat your neighbor the way you wish to be treated. Even though the Spaniards spread Catholicism to the New World through the sword and disease, this was done in spite of actual Judeo-Christian teachings. Just like the attacks in Norway are done in spite of any Christian teachings whatsoever. Many devout Christians will gladly take up arms to defend their nation, but very very rarely will you see a devout Christian or Jew murder someone just because of their religion (With the exception of the infinitely rare Christian looney).
So in brief, devout Christians, Jews, and liberal Muslims = peaceful. Orthodox Islam = Violent. That is, unless you're one of those leftists that just hates anyone that's not atheist or Muslim, in which case, Christian or Jewish grandmothers are violent crazies while the murdering, bombing Orthodox Muslim is a peaceful man that...well...somehow acts like a raging beast when you criticize Islam in any way. Which is why I'm confused and outraged when someone actually treats peaceful men like terrorists while treating the terrorists like heroes.
I thought the original comment was why aren't we jumping on Christians the way we do Muslims for the attack? I'll admit, I haven't kept up on the small details from the attacks, but from what I have seen/read, this was a political attack not religious. Whereas Muslims attack in the name of their religion... The only thing that points to this guy as a Christian (again...from what I have seen) is his facebook page states that he is Christian. Pretty hard to connect the dots (for me) to make this a religious attack.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
ACTIONS are recognized by news agencies. When people take actions or make statements it makes the news. No demonstrations, no radical statements of jihad, none of the crap mentioned above happened, guess what? NOTHING NEWSWORTHY HAPPENED THAT DAY. Why do you find it odd that news agencies failed to report that NOTHING HAPPENED???
No as to your point Snipe, I agree this did not happen and yes I will admit that I am well aware that is a MUCH MUCH MUCH larger problem (terrorism, religious jihad, ect) in the Islamic culture than any modern Christians. I will maintain however that for as much flag burnings or anti-American demostrations there are.....there is most certainly thousands to millions of Islamics/Muslims who do not take part and condemn the behaviors.
It just seems as if it's non-Muslims who are always insisting "this doesn't represent Islam". I know there's a huge amount of peaceful Muslims in the world, but I never hear much from them.
BR>
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