Much impressed... Xikar (i.e. madeleine) humidifiers

rusirius

So here's a little story for everyone...

I know a lot of people are seriously gung-ho about the beads... I don't have anything against the beads... I've used them in the past and I know they work well... BUT... I do have three complaints about them...

1: They're expensive
2: The volume required to REALLY be successful with them takes up a lot of space compared to the size of the humidor
3: They hold very little actual water... You either have to constantly replenish them or use them in concert with another humidifier... Basically using the humidifier to supply the moisture and the beads to soak up any excess...

Because of this I've always found that the plain old cheapy humidifiers (all started by credo I believe) stuffed with oasis foam has always been my easy and fool proof method of humidification...

I know a lot of people think these things are junk... But if used PROPERLY they really do work wonders...
An initial charge with 50/50 solution and subsequent fillings with distilled water and these things work wonderful for holding 70% RH... In my own opinion, those who have nightmare problems with these things probably either a) don't use 50/50 solution, in which the humidity will "run away"... PG mixed with water brings the vapor pressure at the perfect point to provide 70% humidity... Without it you might as well just sit a bowl of water in there and watch the humidity climb...

On the flip side, PG itself has an incrediably low vapor pressure... This means that the PG itself hardly evaporates at all... What that boils down to is simple... After the initial charge, if you continue to use PG solution to replenish your humidifier, you'll continue to increase the amount of PG... If it starts at 50% and once you notice the humidity dropping you add 50/50 again, you're now sitting with somewhere around 75% PG in your humidifier... NOT GOOD...

Not only does PG change the vapor pressure of water, but it's also hygroscopic... Meaning it can absorb water... I've often heard references where people say that the beads are the ONLY humidification device that will absorb excess moisture... That's just not true..

One more thing... PG is natural anti-bacterial and anti-fungal solution. That means it'll keep those foam humidifiers from getting moldy/nasty to boot....

So let's come full circle... I've always used the oasis foams and never had any problems maintaining a perfect 70% (okay usually around 68%) humidity level...

HOWEVER... A while back I purchased a used humidor from a great guy on another forum... Some of you may recall the horror story I had with a certain online distributor... This guy felt so bad for me he practically gave away a humi to me...

Along with the many extras he gave me, he also included a Xikar gel humidifier... Basically it's a humidifier with a polymer that can absorb 400% it's own weight in water... The humi he sent me was already seasoned and the humdifier was already chugging along keeping it a nice 70%... I figured if it's not broke, don't fix it... So I kept it in there....

Over time I've come to really love this thing... So much so in fact that I've thrown away my old oasis humidifiers and replaced them all with these gel humidifiers... Why?

Because it not only works, but it works so much better...

Wait... I just said the oasis foam humidifiers work perfectly... So how can these work better? Simple... Let me explain...

First off, it seems that for a given size they can humidify a much larger amount of cigars/area... Why? I'm guessing because they expose more surface area. A normal "rectangle" oasis humidifier I would only trust to handle maybe 50 cigars... The same size gel humidifier I'd trust to do at least double that...
Second they seem to require less "Recharging" with PG... Yes, I said PG barely evaporates... That's true, but SOME does... It seems in my experience that the PG evaporates quicker from oasis than from the gel... In fact, it also takes MUCH MUCH less PG to get it working well... Actually an initial charge with 50/50 is bad for these things.. It's just too much PG... Well get back to that in a minute...
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly... the maintenance is much MUCH easier... To begin with, because these humdifiers are clear, and because the polymer "shrinks" as it releases moisture, it's easy to see when you need to add some water...
Adding water is also much simpler... You simply lay the humidifier on it's back (only one face is "open") and pour in water till it levels to the top... In a few minutes the polymer absorbs all that water and it's the perfect amount to fill it back up... It doesn't get any easier... No guesswork...

Now if you decide to try one of these, here's a couple of quick tips for you...

First of all, do NOT charge with 50/50... It's just too much PG and it drastically reduces the amount of humidification these things are capable of putting out... To make a long story short, think of it like this... You can think of PG as "sealing in" the water once the ambiant RH reaches 70%... It kinda "locks it in" a bubble so to speak... With the gel, it seems to do some of that on it's own, so it requires much less...
How much less? I've found great success with a mixture of about 10-20% PG works great... The Xikar branded ones actually state to ONLY use their PG solution... You can't go wrong doing that, but most of us already have 50/50 sitting around... If that's the case, just mix about 1 part 50/50 with 3-4 parts water... That'll be fine...

After the initial charge, just use distilled water... Eventually (a year or so?) you'll have to add just a little more PG, but not too much... Once a year maybe recharge with a 1 part 50/50 to 4-5 parts water...

When you first buy one of these, it'll basically be empty except for what appears to be a few grains of a "sand" like substance (the polymer)... Just lay it down as described above and pour in your solution until it reaches the top... Give it 15 minutes or so and it's ready to pop in your humi...

Hope you have as much luck as I have with these things... I love 'em!!!

phobicsquirrel

wow, well first WELCOME back!! been wondering where you were hiding.. And thanks for the great intel.

madurofan

Thanks for the info Sirius. I had a Xikar Gel jar but didn't have a lot of success with it. I've used it in conjuction with the beads in my desktop and had relative success but by itself it just pumped out way too much humidity IMO. My humi regularly stayed above 75% in the summer time. As soon as I put the beads in with them it dropped under 70% and stayed around 69%.

I mostly agree with your assesment of beads though as by themselves I've had little success with them especially in the winter.

rusirius

madurofan:

Thanks for the info Sirius. I had a Xikar Gel jar but didn't have a lot of success with it. I've used it in conjuction with the beads in my desktop and had relative success but by itself it just pumped out way too much humidity IMO. My humi regularly stayed above 75% in the summer time. As soon as I put the beads in with them it dropped under 70% and stayed around 69%.

I mostly agree with your assesment of beads though as by themselves I've had little success with them especially in the winter.

It's funny you say that... I've never used the jars myself, but a friend of mine bought one for a new humi he got... He said it worked great for about 2 or 3 week but then suddenly he had the exact opposite effect... His humidity dropped to 59% and stayed there no matter what he did...

I have a theory about that... I think the jar he got was either a) too small for his humi, or b) the jars don't work well because the actual exposes surface area is relatively small compared to the actual amount of gel...

One other thing I should mention... and this applies for both oasis foam and gel... Anything using PG solution basically... When you first charge or refill a humidifier with PG solution / water it'll take a while for the PG solution to ... hrmmm ... bond? no... not bond... ummm... Okay, let's go back to the "PG contains the water like a "bubble"... It takes a while after a refill for things to stabilize and get back to the perfect balance where 70% is the norm...

As long as the humidifier is properly sized for the humi, and it's relatively full of cigars, then the initial excess output shouldn't really be noticed much (and after a refill you should probably let it sit out for a good bit jut to help out this initial stage), but otherwise you might get a spike...

That's not to say that was your problem Maddy, I'm sure yours was over a long term... But in the case of my friend, I think the initial week or so was still working towards the stabile environment, then once it stabilized the output just couldn't keep up with his humi...

I suppose if it was really noticable and you wanted to avoid it you could keep another "filled" humidifier in a bag ready to go... When a refill was required, just swap the "ready to go" one, fill the old and stick it in the bag.. Rotating them out basically...

madurofan

Yea it was over a couple of months that I fiddled with it. I think your theory on the surface area of the jar makes since. I've never seen the gel in any other form though, wasn't aware they came in a different form. I'm gonna go use my google-fu and check into this.

Tumbler

I didn't think you were suppose to use a PG device and beads in the same humi. The beads will soak up the PG.

I have the Madeleine crystals in one humi, but I have been recharging with the PG solution. I will switch to distilled water and see how that works. I have been using a lot of solution. The beads are expensive and they do take up some room, but they have worked really well for me.

madurofan

I heard that rumor too Tumbler. But I was then told by a few different people and Siruis just said it again that the PG itself doesn't disolve into the air so there is no way it could be absorbed by the beads.

rusirius

madurofan:

I heard that rumor too Tumbler. But I was then told by a few different people and Siruis just said it again that the PG itself doesn't disolve into the air so there is no way it could be absorbed by the beads.

yeah, very very little PG will evaporate... I suppose over time they could absorb some of it but if I recall the beads only last a year or two anyway right? So it really shouldn't be an issue...

madurofan

rusirius:

madurofan:

I heard that rumor too Tumbler. But I was then told by a few different people and Siruis just said it again that the PG itself doesn't disolve into the air so there is no way it could be absorbed by the beads.

yeah, very very little PG will evaporate... I suppose over time they could absorb some of it but if I recall the beads only last a year or two anyway right? So it really shouldn't be an issue...

THey say 5 years I think. I've had mine about a year now and they're still fine.

Tumbler

rusirius:

madurofan:

I heard that rumor too Tumbler. But I was then told by a few different people and Siruis just said it again that the PG itself doesn't disolve into the air so there is no way it could be absorbed by the beads.

yeah, very very little PG will evaporate... I suppose over time they could absorb some of it but if I recall the beads only last a year or two anyway right? So it really shouldn't be an issue...

I like this line of thought - it makes sense...

Jetmech_63

I've nevr tried beads but i have gel crystals in all of my humis and i 100% love them! I charge with distilled and add a little 50/50 once a month along with a distilled recharge.....razor sharp 70% th whole time. The only time i use anything else is when i go to the ship i throw in a boveda 72% pack because the air on the ship can get really dry, the boveda in conjunction with the gel helps the humi recover waaay faster that gel alone.