makes a ton of sense. to relate it back top cooking, anyone can make chicken marsala. chicken, mushrooms, marsala wine etc... but they will all taste a bit different when made by different hands. the best chefs will have a secret up their sleeves. only the most refined palates will be able to pick out what specific ingredients are used. the people with that kind of knowledge are also the people that truly respect the chef. the others will attempt to copy and come close but not quite get it.
this all comes down to blenders not wanting to give up their signature styles, processes, etc because they wont be their trademark anymore.
i would love to know how to learn to identify leaves in a blend by sight and feel. however, given that this is a life long study on its own, i doubt that i will ever get to that point. some of it is easy, but some of it is very difficult.
i guess when growing and blending tobacco is truly your life's work, this is a bit easier to understand. when you work closely with something you love on a daily basis, you get to know it better than anyone else.
Thanks Alex, it makes perfect sense. Unfortunately it also makes it just about impossible to accurately choose future cigar decisions based on the information provided by the companies. This information tells me that it is even more important to get to know the style of certain blenders as this may be a more accurate way of choosing a new stick over deciding on one based on the information provided. Very interesting stuff Alex, thanks.
this also got me to thinking that the more reputable the company, the less likely it is to have false growing regions in the information they give out. almost no companies give out priming or exactly how the curing/fermenting/aging process is used in a specific cigar. very interesting stuff.
Just as an example in terms of integrity, the 10 or 20 true greats out there that I spoke of are talented enough to take a cigar from literally any factory, open it up and identify every leaf in the cigar. Region, seed, priming, proportion and sometimes even grower. that said, they never knock each other off out of a huge amount of respect, loyalty and integrity. They are each artists in their own right and while the appreciate the work of others, they never set out to knock something off.
That is absolutely amazing. The fact that these blenders (albeit only a few) have so much knowledge and experience that they can identify so many details from the leaves is astounding.....
Alex, my mind is blown.
Just as an example in terms of integrity, the 10 or 20 true greats out there that I spoke of are talented enough to take a cigar from literally any factory, open it up and identify every leaf in the cigar. Region, seed, priming, proportion and sometimes even grower. that said, they never knock each other off out of a huge amount of respect, loyalty and integrity. They are each artists in their own right and while the appreciate the work of others, they never set out to knock something off.
That is absolutely amazing. The fact that these blenders (albeit only a few) have so much knowledge and experience that they can identify so many details from the leaves is astounding.....
Alex, my mind is blown.
what is even crazier is that i have seen it happen. I watched AJ Fernandez do it.
we walked into the Fernandez factory after just finishing up at the Drew Estates Factory. Colin Ganely (of cigar journal) had the Ratzilla that Johnathan Drew handed us sticking up out of his pocket. AJ walks up to Colin, grabs the cigar out of his shirt pocket and begins to study it. he looks at Colin and says "Connecticut Oscuro. Good cigar" places it back in the pocket from where it came and he went about his business. ...there was no band on that cigar and he didnt know we just got out of DE.
With the secrecy that goes into the marketing of the blends it does beg the question (at least to me) if guys that have a signature are getting it from their style, or a specific leaf they commonly use that is secret.
like... does Kelner musk come from the style of blending? the curing or fermentation? the tobacco itself? the environment it's aged in after rolling/before shipping? Same could be asked of the Pepin spice that we know and love... how does he incorporate it into so many blends that are so different in taste?
I guess that's the magic of the cigar... on those 10 to 20 master blenders will truly ever know...
does Kelner musk come from the style of blending? the curing or fermentation? the tobacco itself? the environment it's aged in after rolling/before shipping?
yes. have you ever done the Davidoff cigar tasting? that will demonstrate way better than i could even attempt to explain
does Kelner musk come from the style of blending? the curing or fermentation? the tobacco itself? the environment it's aged in after rolling/before shipping?
yes. have you ever done the Davidoff cigar tasting? that will demonstrate way better than i could even attempt to explain
brother, I've never smoked a Davidoff cigar... much less a tasting. lol. I have the Maduro you gave me and a Millennium that Isaac gave me... but I've yet to put fire to them.
can you try to sum it up like this for us...
the guys with a signature characteristic; is it more the process or the actual tobacco?
I have my own theories... but I think we'd all rather hear yours. lol
what is even crazier is that i have seen it happen. I watched AJ Fernandez do it.
we walked into the Fernandez factory after just finishing up at the Drew Estates Factory. Colin Ganely (of cigar journal) had the Ratzilla that Johnathan Drew handed us sticking up out of his pocket. AJ walks up to Colin, grabs the cigar out of his shirt pocket and begins to study it. he looks at Colin and says "Connecticut Oscuro. Good cigar" places it back in the pocket from where it came and he went about his business. ...there was no band on that cigar and he didnt know we just got out of DE.
Amazing....I hope that someday I have that level of expertise/knowledge on a subject, whether it's my work or a hobby.
And maybe this was already mentioned, but do you think those top blenders (like AJ) could pick up a cigar that's been aging in a humidor for 10+ years and be able to identify all the details about the tobacco in the same way they can pick and identify the details of a "freshly rolled" cigar?
Or does extensive aging hide and change the original characteristics of tobacco in a way which makes it harder, or impossible to identify the origins of the leaves?
does Kelner musk come from the style of blending? the curing or fermentation? the tobacco itself? the environment it's aged in after rolling/before shipping?
yes. have you ever done the Davidoff cigar tasting? that will demonstrate way better than i could even attempt to explain
brother, I've never smoked a Davidoff cigar... much less a tasting. lol. I have the Maduro you gave me and a Millennium that Isaac gave me... but I've yet to put fire to them.
can you try to sum it up like this for us...
the guys with a signature characteristic; is it more the process or the actual tobacco?
I have my own theories... but I think we'd all rather hear yours. lol
i mean, its everything. you change an element and everything else changes. the reason why i asked if you had done the Davidoff tasting is because they hand you a stack of cigars and they walk you through them. each one embodies a different element of the last cigar and that cigar is one of the Davidoff line (i cant remember what one). once you smoke each one of the cigars you have a better understanding of what goes into it. the salt, the musk, the earth... its all there but separated out from each other.
does Kelner musk come from the style of blending? the curing or fermentation? the tobacco itself? the environment it's aged in after rolling/before shipping?
yes. have you ever done the Davidoff cigar tasting? that will demonstrate way better than i could even attempt to explain
brother, I've never smoked a Davidoff cigar... much less a tasting. lol. I have the Maduro you gave me and a Millennium that Isaac gave me... but I've yet to put fire to them.
can you try to sum it up like this for us...
the guys with a signature characteristic; is it more the process or the actual tobacco?
I have my own theories... but I think we'd all rather hear yours. lol
i mean, its everything. you change an element and everything else changes. the reason why i asked if you had done the Davidoff tasting is because they hand you a stack of cigars and they walk you through them. each one embodies a different element of the last cigar and that cigar is one of the Davidoff line (i cant remember what one). once you smoke each one of the cigars you have a better understanding of what goes into it. the salt, the musk, the earth... its all there but separated out from each other.
That tasting sounds like a VERY cool thing to experience. Where do you do something like that?
find a Davidoff authorized dealer that is holding that specific event. they are kinda hard to come by.
There is an authorized dealer about an hour from me... I'm on their emailing list, and me and the owner have exchanged cigars several times, so hopefully I am in their good graces enough to be welcomed at such a cool event if they ever get to host one. Thanks for the head's up!
find a Davidoff authorized dealer that is holding that specific event. they are kinda hard to come by.
There is an authorized dealer about an hour from me... I'm on their emailing list, and me and the owner have exchanged cigars several times, so hopefully I am in their good graces enough to be welcomed at such a cool event if they ever get to host one. Thanks for the head's up!
Just stumbled upon this...wow. Mind blown. Figure I'll bump it and it might help someone else.I hope Alex comes back, it's awesome to see him interacting and dropping knowledge on the forum.
Comments
this all comes down to blenders not wanting to give up their signature styles, processes, etc because they wont be their trademark anymore.
i would love to know how to learn to identify leaves in a blend by sight and feel. however, given that this is a life long study on its own, i doubt that i will ever get to that point. some of it is easy, but some of it is very difficult.
i guess when growing and blending tobacco is truly your life's work, this is a bit easier to understand. when you work closely with something you love on a daily basis, you get to know it better than anyone else.
almost no companies give out priming or exactly how the curing/fermenting/aging process is used in a specific cigar.
very interesting stuff.
Alex, my mind is blown.
* I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *
we walked into the Fernandez factory after just finishing up at the Drew Estates Factory. Colin Ganely (of cigar journal) had the Ratzilla that Johnathan Drew handed us sticking up out of his pocket. AJ walks up to Colin, grabs the cigar out of his shirt pocket and begins to study it.
he looks at Colin and says "Connecticut Oscuro. Good cigar" places it back in the pocket from where it came and he went about his business.
...there was no band on that cigar and he didnt know we just got out of DE.
like... does Kelner musk come from the style of blending? the curing or fermentation? the tobacco itself? the environment it's aged in after rolling/before shipping? Same could be asked of the Pepin spice that we know and love... how does he incorporate it into so many blends that are so different in taste?
I guess that's the magic of the cigar... on those 10 to 20 master blenders will truly ever know...
can you try to sum it up like this for us...
the guys with a signature characteristic; is it more the process or the actual tobacco?
I have my own theories... but I think we'd all rather hear yours. lol
And maybe this was already mentioned, but do you think those top blenders (like AJ) could pick up a cigar that's been aging in a humidor for 10+ years and be able to identify all the details about the tobacco in the same way they can pick and identify the details of a "freshly rolled" cigar?
Or does extensive aging hide and change the original characteristics of tobacco in a way which makes it harder, or impossible to identify the origins of the leaves?
* I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *