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  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    every new car, regardless of the economy, will have negative equity in the first year of ownership.(given that you took out a loan for it) as you pay it off and owe less and less the car will still have some value. the graph of what you owe and what its worth will always cross a few years into the loan.

    im going used because i dont feel like having a big payment right now given what i use my car for. i dont race. i dont go on big huge road trips. I dont move furniture. i dont haul boats. I dont have kids.
    I drive 14 miles a day 5 days a week to get to work and back.
    i still have 6 weeks till i turn in my subaru so im taking my time to find a car at doesnt totally suck and at least has a bit of personality ( ill be damned if im buying a silver honda civic)
  • nightmaremike31nightmaremike31 Posts: 718
    kuzi16:
    ( ill be damned if im buying a silver honda civic)

    You will in fact be damned, if I'm not mistaken the National Insurance Crime Bureau still has them as a popular car to steal in America. Granted I think it refers to the '90's models, but I used to own one (not by choice, my blazer broke down and I had to buy it off a friend since I was a finacial wreck at the time) and it was stolen 3 times within one year.
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947
    ToyotatoyotaToyotatoyota
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947
    PuroFreak:
    I'm going to cast my vote for the Dodge Challenger... lol Just my opinion cause I think it's a damn good looking car. I know it's not even close to what you are looking for.

    Maybe they'll get you one of those for a squad car Puro ...I'm just sayin ...that would be sweet...
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947
    kuzi16:
    every new car, regardless of the economy, will have negative equity in the first year of ownership.(given that you took out a loan for it) as you pay it off and owe less and less the car will still have some value. the graph of what you owe and what its worth will always cross a few years into the loan.

    im going used because i dont feel like having a big payment right now given what i use my car for. i dont race. i dont go on big huge road trips. I dont move furniture. i dont haul boats. I dont have kids.
    I drive 14 miles a day 5 days a week to get to work and back.
    i still have 6 weeks till i turn in my subaru so im taking my time to find a car at doesnt totally suck and at least has a bit of personality ( ill be damned if im buying a silver honda civic)

    Every car will depreciate whether theres a loan involved or not, some lots more than others. Depending on the vehicle, length and terms of loan i.e. interest rate, down payment etc. it can definitly take more than a few years to catch up to and break even or gain positive value if a loan is involved. With extended terms because of the price of vehichles going up and most buyers not putting down anything as a down payment sometimes it can take 3-4 years to close to breaking out depending on the vehicle. If you buy a new car or even a used one lets say two years from now it will only be worth xx amount of dollars. This amount is the same regardless if theres a loan or not. You are buying a depreciating asset there is no way around this it is what it is. The good thing is there is a lotta cheap money out there for people with decent credit. That brings up the age old question ( your grandparents will usually say if you cant pay cash don't buy it) of cash versus financing. Cheap interest rates and I'm going to use OPM (other peoples money). Remember it is a depreciating asset ...lets say your banker says ' hey give me $20,000.00 and in two years I'll guarantee you it will be worth $ 12,000.00-$14,000.00 depending on the economy....hhmmmm...maybe I don't beat a path to his door huh. If I can take my $20,000.00 and get a return of 3-4 % and get a loan for between 4-6% I'm not 'losing' a great deal in interest and may be able to come close to offsetting one with the other even if I'm buying used and theres no special interest rate offers.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    gmill880:
    kuzi16:
    every new car, regardless of the economy, will have negative equity in the first year of ownership.(given that you took out a loan for it) as you pay it off and owe less and less the car will still have some value. the graph of what you owe and what its worth will always cross a few years into the loan.

    im going used because i dont feel like having a big payment right now given what i use my car for. i dont race. i dont go on big huge road trips. I dont move furniture. i dont haul boats. I dont have kids.
    I drive 14 miles a day 5 days a week to get to work and back.
    i still have 6 weeks till i turn in my subaru so im taking my time to find a car at doesnt totally suck and at least has a bit of personality ( ill be damned if im buying a silver honda civic)

    Every car will depreciate whether theres a loan involved or not, some lots more than others. Depending on the vehicle, length and terms of loan i.e. interest rate, down payment etc. it can definitly take more than a few years to catch up to and break even or gain positive value if a loan is involved. With extended terms because of the price of vehichles going up and most buyers not putting down anything as a down payment sometimes it can take 3-4 years to close to breaking out depending on the vehicle. If you buy a new car or even a used one lets say two years from now it will only be worth xx amount of dollars. This amount is the same regardless if theres a loan or not. You are buying a depreciating asset there is no way around this it is what it is. The good thing is there is a lotta cheap money out there for people with decent credit. That brings up the age old question ( your grandparents will usually say if you cant pay cash don't buy it) of cash versus financing. Cheap interest rates and I'm going to use OPM (other peoples money). Remember it is a depreciating asset ...lets say your banker says ' hey give me $20,000.00 and in two years I'll guarantee you it will be worth $ 12,000.00-$14,000.00 depending on the economy....hhmmmm...maybe I don't beat a path to his door huh. If I can take my $20,000.00 and get a return of 3-4 % and get a loan for between 4-6% I'm not 'losing' a great deal in interest and may be able to come close to offsetting one with the other even if I'm buying used and theres no special interest rate offers.
    i am fully aware of how a loan and the depreciation value of a car works. my original statement:

    "every new car, regardless of the economy, will have negative equity in the first year of ownership.(given that you took out a loan for it) as you pay it off and owe less and less the car will still have some value"

    if i didnt take out a lone, thus paying cash for it, there is no negative equity. there cannot be. its paid off. the value dropped, but i do not owe more than it is worth because i owe nothing.


    and i have FANTASTIC credit. ive never missed a payment on anything, ever. i have lo ng standing credit relationships (10+ years in some cases) and a low balance on every card or account i have. good financing isnt the issue. the only issue is finding the right car for the right price. the right trade off between price, value, and features.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    gmill880:
    PuroFreak:
    I'm going to cast my vote for the Dodge Challenger... lol Just my opinion cause I think it's a damn good looking car. I know it's not even close to what you are looking for.

    Maybe they'll get you one of those for a squad car Puro ...I'm just sayin ...that would be sweet...
    rear wheel drive in the snowbelt of Ohio is a poor decision.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    gmill880:
    ToyotatoyotaToyotatoyota
    ....if they produced a car i had any passion for. i dont wanna be another corolla/camery driver.

    my father in law drives a Honda accord and his Girlfriend has a toyota corolla. both of them have to use their keyless entry to find their car because there are so many of them out there that they arent sure that its their car till the lights blink.

    i dont want that.
  • Bad AndyBad Andy Posts: 848
    If its american (i use the term lightly) then buy a Ford...its not gov't owned...yet. Honda would be the next choice if you are looking for return and durability. The Nissan Titans are sweet but you pay for it.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭


    seriously guys, i dont want a honda or toyota.

    i know they arent bad companies. i just dont like them. I have to like the car i drive.
  • TheedgeTheedge Posts: 316
    Perhaps you should upgrade to an SUV! I purchased a 1 year old Tahoe a while back, and love it.  There is a local guy that trades his in every year for a new one, the guy is mr. clean when it comes to his trucks.  I wouldn't mind getting a hold of his used truck next time around.
  • nightmaremike31nightmaremike31 Posts: 718
    Yeah, upgrade to a SMART SUV... image
    HA... Ok, but really, I like way dodge and chevy are bringing back an older look with some of their vehicles, but those are more "street" and speed. My girlfriends parents just bought a VW TDI Diesel, I've read that VW's are pretty reliable and fun cars to drive. Just a suggestion for the pot.
  • cholmes8310cholmes8310 Posts: 1,585
    Bad Andy:
    The Nissan Titans are sweet but you pay for it.
    No there not. Trust someone who managed all Nissan offsite inventory for two years for the Canton, Ms plant where they are produced. I know how many service problems there are in final quality inspections. I think last time I checked there were 116 service issues per 100 vehicles built in that plant. If anyone is actually looking for a truck, I'd avoid these and buy an American truck, preferably a Ford.

  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947
    kuzi16:
    gmill880:
    kuzi16:
    every new car, regardless of the economy, will have negative equity in the first year of ownership.(given that you took out a loan for it) as you pay it off and owe less and less the car will still have some value. the graph of what you owe and what its worth will always cross a few years into the loan.

    im going used because i dont feel like having a big payment right now given what i use my car for. i dont race. i dont go on big huge road trips. I dont move furniture. i dont haul boats. I dont have kids.
    I drive 14 miles a day 5 days a week to get to work and back.
    i still have 6 weeks till i turn in my subaru so im taking my time to find a car at doesnt totally suck and at least has a bit of personality ( ill be damned if im buying a silver honda civic)

    Every car will depreciate whether theres a loan involved or not, some lots more than others. Depending on the vehicle, length and terms of loan i.e. interest rate, down payment etc. it can definitly take more than a few years to catch up to and break even or gain positive value if a loan is involved. With extended terms because of the price of vehichles going up and most buyers not putting down anything as a down payment sometimes it can take 3-4 years to close to breaking out depending on the vehicle. If you buy a new car or even a used one lets say two years from now it will only be worth xx amount of dollars. This amount is the same regardless if theres a loan or not. You are buying a depreciating asset there is no way around this it is what it is. The good thing is there is a lotta cheap money out there for people with decent credit. That brings up the age old question ( your grandparents will usually say if you cant pay cash don't buy it) of cash versus financing. Cheap interest rates and I'm going to use OPM (other peoples money). Remember it is a depreciating asset ...lets say your banker says ' hey give me $20,000.00 and in two years I'll guarantee you it will be worth $ 12,000.00-$14,000.00 depending on the economy....hhmmmm...maybe I don't beat a path to his door huh. If I can take my $20,000.00 and get a return of 3-4 % and get a loan for between 4-6% I'm not 'losing' a great deal in interest and may be able to come close to offsetting one with the other even if I'm buying used and theres no special interest rate offers.
    i am fully aware of how a loan and the depreciation value of a car works. my original statement:

    "every new car, regardless of the economy, will have negative equity in the first year of ownership.(given that you took out a loan for it) as you pay it off and owe less and less the car will still have some value"

    if i didnt take out a lone, thus paying cash for it, there is no negative equity. there cannot be. its paid off. the value dropped, but i do not owe more than it is worth because i owe nothing.


    and i have FANTASTIC credit. ive never missed a payment on anything, ever. i have lo ng standing credit relationships (10+ years in some cases) and a low balance on every card or account i have. good financing isnt the issue. the only issue is finding the right car for the right price. the right trade off between price, value, and features.

    OK Kuzi-I believe you mis took my comments-maybe I shouldn't have hit the quote button-My reply was more of an open forum reply to anyone reading regarding depreciation and how after 27 years in the financial industries arena I find it funny and interesting :how some folks, especially older folks, think paying cash for a depreciating item is the greatest thing ever even after you show them in black and white how its not in their best interest and that also regarding autos ( here I was talking directly about your comment that after a few years the graph of what you owe versus value ALWAYS crosses) depends on how you define a few years most define that as somewhere around two ...not always true and nowadays even less so ...some people have negative equity 3 or 4 years or longer out depending on their circumstances. ( I know you like things backed up by facts so this is based on the fact at one time I was a Finance Manager , Sales Manager and a General Manager for both GM and Toyota ) I had no intention of questioning your knowlwdge of how loan amortizations or depreciation works and certainly was not implying anything negative about your credit rating. I have no idea what you do or don't know or the depth of your acumen concerning these things as I don't know you personally although if I were a betting man I'd say your pretty astute. I CAN say you , myself , and everyone else with good credit are becoming an endangered species. I'm just sayin ...from your response it sounds like you took something personal that was not intended to be brother...
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,560 ✭✭
    I'm pretty lucky in this department. I know several auto wholesalers, and when I get ready for something, I give them the parameters of what I want, how much I'll pay, etc. and I can most of the time get a new (to me) vehicle that is worth more than the book value in 6-12 months. They get great deals on cabinets from me. Everyone wins.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    no worries my man.

    i understood your point.

    print is very hard to convey tone in. you didnt offend me at all. no need to apologize

    you are right, where the lines cross is getting farther and farther out for many. I didnt put a set time line on this. If you have a 2 year note, the lines will cross sooner than if you have a 5 year note... or a 6 year like some places are doing now.

    iduno...

    the real value in a car (in my opinion) is using it.
    i dont buy a car as an investment as much as a means of transportation. if i worked at my house and drove way less than i do, a car would be worth way less to me than it is now (and its not worth too much now).

    its the same with my house. I didnt buy it with the intent of making money off of it. i bought it so id have a bigger place to live with all the stuff i have. the small apartment just wasnt giving me what i need.

    on that note, an expensive car will not give me personally a bigger usage payout than a less expensive one. like i said, i drive 14 miles a day 5 days a week. i use the car way to little to spend $30k on it.
  • bocardsbocards Posts: 32
    Kuzi, I do not know how a Mini Cooper S handles in the snow, but I bought one not long ago and absolutely love it. I am from the "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT " mindset and still get over 33 miles per gallon. Again I live in the south so snow is not something I even think about when getting a car, but for hte money and the fun just driving it (course I only use mine mostly to work) its a hell of a car. Bo
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    bocards:
    Kuzi, I do not know how a Mini Cooper S handles in the snow, but I bought one not long ago and absolutely love it. I am from the "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT " mindset and still get over 33 miles per gallon. Again I live in the south so snow is not something I even think about when getting a car, but for hte money and the fun just driving it (course I only use mine mostly to work) its a hell of a car. Bo
    my wife was looking at one of those actually. my biggest problem with them is that they are so freakin hard to find. i dont want to pay for a new one and nobody gives them up after they get them so the used market is slim pickens.
  • LasabarLasabar Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    bocards:
    Kuzi, I do not know how a Mini Cooper S handles in the snow, but I bought one not long ago and absolutely love it. I am from the "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT " mindset and still get over 33 miles per gallon. Again I live in the south so snow is not something I even think about when getting a car, but for hte money and the fun just driving it (course I only use mine mostly to work) its a hell of a car. Bo
    my wife was looking at one of those actually. my biggest problem with them is that they are so freakin hard to find. i dont want to pay for a new one and nobody gives them up after they get them so the used market is slim pickens.
    Any car yet??? That cash for clunkers stimulus would sure help out and they say that it may not last long for the money set aside is gone-when-gone...
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,560 ✭✭
    Lasabar:
    Any car yet??? That cash for clunkers stimulus would sure help out and they say that it may not last long for the money set aside is gone-when-gone...
    The Gov't will just print more when it's gone....
  • LasabarLasabar Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭
    cabinetmaker:
    Lasabar:
    Any car yet??? That cash for clunkers stimulus would sure help out and they say that it may not last long for the money set aside is gone-when-gone...
    The Gov't will just print more when it's gone....
    But wait a minute... That can't be sustainable long term!!! Do they KNOW about this???

    Someone should tell them!!!
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    i dont have a trade in
  • GoldyGoldy Posts: 1,638 ✭✭
    My wife and I are going to get a subaru impreza outback sport this week. If you are interested in subarus you should join GSA (geological society of america) because that allows you to but the car at 2% below invoice price which means no haggeling. Plus we get an additional 500 bucks off and we will get 3500 for the clunker program. All in all were getting a 22k car for about 15-16k.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    Goldy:
    My wife and I are going to get a subaru impreza outback sport this week. If you are interested in subarus you should join GSA (geological society of america) because that allows you to but the car at 2% below invoice price which means no haggeling. Plus we get an additional 500 bucks off and we will get 3500 for the clunker program. All in all were getting a 22k car for about 15-16k.
    i have a subaru right now and i would love another one. its a bit more than what im willing to pay for at this time.

    also, this program through GSA has this stipulation:
    You must be a GSA member in good standing for at least six (6) consecutive months prior to participating in this program. i need a car by 9-9-09. i am not a member.
  • GoldyGoldy Posts: 1,638 ✭✭
    I just missed that cash for clunkers by hours. Hopefully they will start it back up again.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    im gunna go out tonight and see if i can find a VW Passat tonight. wish me luck.
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,560 ✭✭
    kuzi16:
    im gunna go out tonight and see if i can find a VW Passat tonight. wish me luck.
    Good luck, I like the new VW's.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    im also thinking of getting a credit card with the old black VW bug from the commercials. across the front it will say: "Dats Cool."
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,560 ✭✭
    Or you could get one with the old stoner van saying: "dude, where's my car?"..
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