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You have to wonder about kids.

0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
*rant on.

I have a 19 year old and 22 year old. And both are at home. Why? I have no idea.
The 22 year old can't seem to keep a job and has no concept of being responsible. Everything I have ever gotten has been stolen or ruined by him. I bought a new dual sport bike years back and he took it for a joy ride and crashed it. It was a week old. I bought a 65 Chevy pickup to restore and he took it out in the back field and trashed it. He has stolen or lost half my tools in my shop. Understand, I am a mechanic. I make my living with tools, so it is a sizeable amount of tools.
I had bought my Harley brand new. It wasn't even fully put together when I purchased it. They managed to dent the back fender on it somehow. Of course, no one knows how it happened.

A couple weeks ago, I came home and my humidor was not quite right. I didn't catch it at first, but you know how you know something is "off"? Well, a nice cigar I was gifted disappeared. Pretty sure it was one of his useless friends. And since the kids seem to think my house is their's to do with as they please, people come and go at will.

My patience is well past being tolerable. As with just about everything else valuable in my house, I had to lock away all my humidors. When the one thing that is sacred to you in your home is violated, it takes you over the edge.

I don't understand the sense of entitlement that these kids have now days. And the total lack of respect they have for other people's things.

I feel better now. LOL!
*rant off
In Fumo Pax
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

Wylaff said:
Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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    marineatbn03marineatbn03 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭
    I understand completely. I have a 16 year old that has been spoiled by his mother. He takes my stuff without asking, does nothing around the house, I pay $200 a month for lawn care when there is an able body in the house. Kids today are lazy. I keep telling him that he needs to get a job if he wants to drive, his response? "How am I supposed to get to a job without a car?" My response "Get on that damn bike that hasn't moved in 5 years and peddle your ass there!". I am not looking forward to the day when these kids are running this country....
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    taythegibstaythegibs Posts: 2,025
    [Rant]
    That sucks, i never could understand that mentality... that being, people blame it all on the parents, its not. The schools, and environments outside the home have a Huge effect on "my" generation. I am your sons' age, and i didnt have it all to great growing up. Ill admit that I still live at home , (i have some issues, and i know i wouldn't be able to make it in the real world... tried it for 3 months and lost $3k but lesson learned) but i know that i have to keep a job (even if it is just mcdonalds, started mowing yards at 13 to make $$ to do stuff, i was lucky to have the drive to be able to do it) take care of my stuff (my jeep that i bought, tools, i even have a 72 k5 out back that needs a motor), and make good grades in college to be able to do so. I had several talks with my dad about the internship im doing down in orlando at Disney (will be my third one now) before i could accept it. I have seen so many of my friends and classmates screw up.

    I have wanted to....okay i have punched a few of my peers in the last several years for their sheer stupidity. The one that got me the worse was a "friend" of mine whose dad got a brand new hummer h3 when they first came out, he decided that it wasn't fair and he wanted to drive it (had just gotten his license at the time and his dad had gotten him a restored early eighties chevy that was a show truck as a daily driver) he stole the h3 and took it offroad and it didnt even have 1000 miles on it. He broke it, and left it in the middle of nowhere on the mountain and rode back with one of the idiots he was with. After a week of the police searching they finally found the truck, luckily still intact, and got it towed to a shop. I dont know what all he did but they had to replace the transmission and rear drive shaft in the truck.
    [/Rant, found out the other day the neighborhood kids got into my k5 and trashed the remainder of the interior...need to get that outta my system]

    I have always associated with older people and, for the most part, dont get along with those my own age. I wish you the best in your dealings with the boy, and I hope for the best in your future.
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    ImgemboImgembo Posts: 661 ✭✭
    In defense of young-ens of the world we are not all like that. I am a 24 year old that left home at 18 got a full time job, and a collage degree in 4 years (paid for it my self too). In a masters program right now. Living a few states away from my family. Paying for it myself ( going in to some debt to do it but worth it). Also getting a masters in public admin so hopefully that will help when i am running the country. I came from a really broken family though and I just wanted the f*** out of there. So i had a great deal of motivation. Fyi its not child abuse any more if they are over 18 =). J.k. violence is never the answer accept when it is 8).
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    I have to agree kids have no idea of what life on there own is or will be like. I have three children 17,09,02. My 17 year old thinks mom and dad will provide everything. I love my Dad he is why im the person i am today, i to started mowing yards and doing odd jobs at a early age to get money to by clothes my parents would not get for me. My older brother was given a car and wrecked it. I saved my money and bought my own. Kids have it so easy because they dont have to work the government tells you to stay home and we will give you a check if you dont want to work. Every thing i got i have worked for it, dont have much but its mine. Are school system dont teach about life. Thats my thoughts.
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    0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Imgembo:
    In defense of young-ens of the world we are not all like that. I am a 24 year old that left home at 18 got a full time job, and a collage degree in 4 years (paid for it my self too). In a masters program right now. Living a few states away from my family. Paying for it myself ( going in to some debt to do it but worth it). Also getting a masters in public admin so hopefully that will help when i am running the country. I came from a really broken family though and I just wanted the f*** out of there. So i had a great deal of motivation. Fyi its not child abuse any more if they are over 18 =). J.k. violence is never the answer accept when it is 8).
    I left home at 17. Bought a mobile home and was on my own. I went all over, where ever there was money. Different countries and Alaska mostly. My step dad owned fishing boats that fished crab out of Kodiak and the Bering Sea. I came home for a few months out of the year. Until my wife and I got back together the final time (long story. LOL!). My family life before I left home wasn't so good. LOL!

    Putting yourself through college is no small feat, for anyone.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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    Medic45Medic45 Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭
    I can see both aspects here. I as well have a 15 year old daughter (adopted Niece) that I have had since she was 5, I have had to pull her from Public schools and put her into a christian school which was the best idea my wife and i ever had. She now feels that she wants to go back and live with her bio mother (whole nother thread there POS), so anyway now she fights with us has hit my wife, our daughter who is 6 and treats our son who is 2 this week like crap. We have turned in every direction known to man and no one can or shall i say WILL help. What are you to do the law will not allow you to punish your kids in todays world because they call it abuse, where was the law 20 years ago when i got my teeth knocked down my throat for back talking, got my ars busted for not doing my chores, I mean seriously this world is stupid. these children think we owe them something.. EXCUSE ME....Last i checked all i am responsible for is trying to instill good moral and ethical values, provide you an education, food on the table, clothes on your back and a roof over your head.. but no thats not good enough. Like leerescue said where we live they teach you to sit at home do nothing drop out of school and draw a check. Its one thing if there is a reason for it but im sorry i deal with people on a daily basis that are just to darn lazy to work and this is what our children see. My kids dont know that I am a highschool drop out, that i pissed a college football scholarship down the drain and a military career all gone because i was just stupid and ignorant and had my 1st child my senior year. They see someone who works attempting to save lives. I could have easily been that person sitting at home and getting paid but i wanted more for my children more for my family. Thats what they see but the world tells them. No you dont wanna do that its TOO HARD...lol it kills me and im sorry for rambling on but kids today PISS ME OFF..... Bring back prayer bring back corpral punishment in schools, bring back the 10 commandments, bring back the time when the parents were able to parent and the teachers were able to teach and the children wanted to be something...... Ty and again sorry..
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    ImgemboImgembo Posts: 661 ✭✭
    0patience:
    Imgembo:
    In defense of young-ens of the world we are not all like that. I am a 24 year old that left home at 18 got a full time job, and a collage degree in 4 years (paid for it my self too). In a masters program right now. Living a few states away from my family. Paying for it myself ( going in to some debt to do it but worth it). Also getting a masters in public admin so hopefully that will help when i am running the country. I came from a really broken family though and I just wanted the f*** out of there. So i had a great deal of motivation. Fyi its not child abuse any more if they are over 18 =). J.k. violence is never the answer accept when it is 8).
    I left home at 17. Bought a mobile home and was on my own. I went all over, where ever there was money. Different countries and Alaska mostly. My step dad owned fishing boats that fished crab out of Kodiak and the Bering Sea. I came home for a few months out of the year. Until my wife and I got back together the final time (long story. LOL!). My family life before I left home wasn't so good. LOL!

    Putting yourself through college is no small feat, for anyone.
    This is impressive. I will be the first to admit that i have not honestly had to put in a hard days work ever. I mean physical work. I have alwalys kind of lucked out and been able to find good desk or management positions in retail stores that paid a living wage. This is something I regret to a degree. The closest thing i get to actual hard work is helping my girlfriend father with random home improvement projects.
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    BigT06BigT06 Posts: 3,899
    I do want to point out here that there is a difference between a "bad" kid and a lazy one...

    I was so "bad" and got kicked out of so many schools, that my parents couldn't even find a private school that would take me (Oak Mountain Academy actually refunded the $22k tuition my dad paid just to remove me)... and I really wasn't that bad, I just have a short temper and a strong arm, and that got me into some trouble... ANYWAYS, at the age of 14 I quit going to school and started home schooling. I finished high school in 3 months. Started working full time for a landscaping company (the owner of which is now my brother in law), and learned how to make it in the real world. At the age of 17 I bought a brand new 2002 Mustang GT, with my own money, and I bought my first house on April 18th, 2003 (one day after my 18th birthday). I now run a facility that is a juvenile center for at-risk youth, and am happily married to a gorgeous woman with 3 kids and a nice home.

    Moral of my story is... I was a "bad" kid... but I wasn't lazy. And because my parents had instilled good morals and good qualities in me, and the fear of the Lord, I ultimately was able to get myself on track and become a healthy, productive member of society. The problem come when kids are either extremely lazy, or when parent get so frustrated they give up. Good parenting will come through for you in the end, so just keep fighting the battle. And take it from me, they will love you for it, more than you will ever know, in the end.
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    mmccartneydcmmccartneydc Posts: 3,407 ✭✭✭
    Man, it is exactly this thread that scares the $hit outta me about having kids. My wife and I got married a year ago and are thinking now about trying. Scary!
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    RhamlinRhamlin Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guess I can count myself lucky. I have the best kid you could ask for. Been a 4.0 student all her life without us having to hound her. Doesn't hang with the parties, Never even had a spanking. Sometimes it's hard to believe she's my kid.
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    jgibvjgibv Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BigT06:
    I do want to point out here that there is a difference between a "bad" kid and a lazy one...
    100% agree with you on that. There's a big difference between the two and I have more hope in the "bad" kids than I do for the "lazy" kids.

    IMHO, I think you can fix "bad" attitudes/behaviors/etc. and get these kids on track, but I think it's much harder to fix "laziness."

    * I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *

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    The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    * RANT ON *

    This is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY 100% NOT a shot at anyone who has posted here.

    When you live your entire life one way, thats the only way you know. When that way is to always be given, thats what you expect out of life.

    I sometimes think that us, the generation before the generation we're discussing, may be in full or partially to blame, although it was inadvertent and actually sprang from the best of intentions. We (I at least) was raised that as a man nobody is responsible for you BUT YOU. I was also raised that once you start a family of your own, you work your a$$ off to provide them with the best of everything and provide them with every advantage in life you can to the best of your ability. I think that second part is where we might have screwed up.

    I have two daughters, ages 12 & 14, and I spoiled them rotten from the second they were first placed in my arms. As the years went by, I noticed something odd - if they wanted something, they asked for it. If they didnt get it, they would ask again. If they still didnt get it, they would consider asking until they got it or just gave up and did without.

    This was VERY disturbing to me, as this is NOT the way to succeed in the world. So I started challenging them. When they would ask for something, I would tell them "do it" or "get it" or "I'll show you how to do that, and we can do it together".

    A funny thing happened as this went on. My youngest daughter rose to it, and became pretty self reliant. If she sees something she wants, she will do it herself (or try anyway) or work to get what she wants.

    On the flip side of the coin, my eldest daughter wants nothing to do with any of that, and will instead whine until she gets what she wants or do the bare minimum possible and half-a$$ it when forced to do so.

    I would say that my eldest is in for a rude awakening when she comes into "the real world", but as I look around I see more and more that in society today, her attitude is quickly becoming the societal norm. Bailouts, endless unemployment benefits that actually DISCOURAGE people from getting jobs and becoming self reliant, the list goes on and on. So maybe my eldest will be OK if she continues down this path.

    The attitude of my youngest, however... when you see people like that in today's society, they tend to be the people you find SUCCEEDING and THRIVING, which is of course what I hope for in both my daughter's futures.

    I read an interesting article the other day in which a newspaper reporter followed up on attendees of a recent job fair a year or so after it. There were SEVERAL instances of "I did find a job, but it was something I didnt want to do or the pay wasnt high enough, so Im currently unemployed." WTF IS THAT??? I was raised to understand that in this life, you're going to run into lots of situations in which there are things you dont WANT to do, but you do what you have to do to get where you want to be. The generation we speak of seems to have NO CONCEPT of this.

    * RANT OFF *
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    marineatbn03marineatbn03 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭
    The Sniper:
    * RANT ON *

    This is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY 100% NOT a shot at anyone who has posted here.

    When you live your entire life one way, thats the only way you know. When that way is to always be given, thats what you expect out of life.

    I sometimes think that us, the generation before the generation we're discussing, may be in full or partially to blame, although it was inadvertent and actually sprang from the best of intentions. We (I at least) was raised that as a man nobody is responsible for you BUT YOU. I was also raised that once you start a family of your own, you work your a$$ off to provide them with the best of everything and provide them with every advantage in life you can to the best of your ability. I think that second part is where we might have screwed up.

    I have two daughters, ages 12 & 14, and I spoiled them rotten from the second they were first placed in my arms. As the years went by, I noticed something odd - if they wanted something, they asked for it. If they didnt get it, they would ask again. If they still didnt get it, they would consider asking until they got it or just gave up and did without.

    This was VERY disturbing to me, as this is NOT the way to succeed in the world. So I started challenging them. When they would ask for something, I would tell them "do it" or "get it" or "I'll show you how to do that, and we can do it together".

    A funny thing happened as this went on. My youngest daughter rose to it, and became pretty self reliant. If she sees something she wants, she will do it herself (or try anyway) or work to get what she wants.

    On the flip side of the coin, my eldest daughter wants nothing to do with any of that, and will instead whine until she gets what she wants or do the bare minimum possible and half-a$$ it when forced to do so.

    I would say that my eldest is in for a rude awakening when she comes into "the real world", but as I look around I see more and more that in society today, her attitude is quickly becoming the societal norm. Bailouts, endless unemployment benefits that actually DISCOURAGE people from getting jobs and becoming self reliant, the list goes on and on. So maybe my eldest will be OK if she continues down this path.

    The attitude of my youngest, however... when you see people like that in today's society, they tend to be the people you find SUCCEEDING and THRIVING, which is of course what I hope for in both my daughter's futures.

    I read an interesting article the other day in which a newspaper reporter followed up on attendees of a recent job fair a year or so after it. There were SEVERAL instances of "I did find a job, but it was something I didnt want to do or the pay wasnt high enough, so Im currently unemployed." WTF IS THAT??? I was raised to understand that in this life, you're going to run into lots of situations in which there are things you dont WANT to do, but you do what you have to do to get where you want to be. The generation we speak of seems to have NO CONCEPT of this.

    * RANT OFF *
    I have to agree to certain extent here. I started working, like many of us, when I was 10,11,12 doing whatever I could whether that be mowing yards, shoveling snow, or any other odd thing I could do. At 15 I was working at a McDonalds and have had a job ever since. Having a kid, you want to give them the best possible life you can, which is understandble, especially if you came from an uprbringing where you didn't have much. But, there is still ways to give them things and better quality of life while making them work for it. The problem I see is the technology of today. We have video games, computers and every other kind of device that you can think of that allows these kids to have way more "virtual friends" than real friends. Take a look around the next time you drive through a neighborhood and take notice of how many kids are actually outside playing. Very few in my experience. Now, my son is lazy, does want everything handed to him, and will probably have a major awakening when he steps into the real world. But, he gets straight A's and stays away from the worse of the evils, i.e, bad kids, drugs, and general trouble. It is almost one of those catch 22's, do I force things on him and risk **** up the good in him, or let him experience life as it is delt to him.......
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    The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    marineatbn03:
    The Sniper:
    * RANT ON *

    This is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY 100% NOT a shot at anyone who has posted here.

    When you live your entire life one way, thats the only way you know. When that way is to always be given, thats what you expect out of life.

    I sometimes think that us, the generation before the generation we're discussing, may be in full or partially to blame, although it was inadvertent and actually sprang from the best of intentions. We (I at least) was raised that as a man nobody is responsible for you BUT YOU. I was also raised that once you start a family of your own, you work your a$$ off to provide them with the best of everything and provide them with every advantage in life you can to the best of your ability. I think that second part is where we might have screwed up.

    I have two daughters, ages 12 & 14, and I spoiled them rotten from the second they were first placed in my arms. As the years went by, I noticed something odd - if they wanted something, they asked for it. If they didnt get it, they would ask again. If they still didnt get it, they would consider asking until they got it or just gave up and did without.

    This was VERY disturbing to me, as this is NOT the way to succeed in the world. So I started challenging them. When they would ask for something, I would tell them "do it" or "get it" or "I'll show you how to do that, and we can do it together".

    A funny thing happened as this went on. My youngest daughter rose to it, and became pretty self reliant. If she sees something she wants, she will do it herself (or try anyway) or work to get what she wants.

    On the flip side of the coin, my eldest daughter wants nothing to do with any of that, and will instead whine until she gets what she wants or do the bare minimum possible and half-a$$ it when forced to do so.

    I would say that my eldest is in for a rude awakening when she comes into "the real world", but as I look around I see more and more that in society today, her attitude is quickly becoming the societal norm. Bailouts, endless unemployment benefits that actually DISCOURAGE people from getting jobs and becoming self reliant, the list goes on and on. So maybe my eldest will be OK if she continues down this path.

    The attitude of my youngest, however... when you see people like that in today's society, they tend to be the people you find SUCCEEDING and THRIVING, which is of course what I hope for in both my daughter's futures.

    I read an interesting article the other day in which a newspaper reporter followed up on attendees of a recent job fair a year or so after it. There were SEVERAL instances of "I did find a job, but it was something I didnt want to do or the pay wasnt high enough, so Im currently unemployed." WTF IS THAT??? I was raised to understand that in this life, you're going to run into lots of situations in which there are things you dont WANT to do, but you do what you have to do to get where you want to be. The generation we speak of seems to have NO CONCEPT of this.

    * RANT OFF *
    I have to agree to certain extent here. I started working, like many of us, when I was 10,11,12 doing whatever I could whether that be mowing yards, shoveling snow, or any other odd thing I could do. At 15 I was working at a McDonalds and have had a job ever since. Having a kid, you want to give them the best possible life you can, which is understandble, especially if you came from an uprbringing where you didn't have much. But, there is still ways to give them things and better quality of life while making them work for it. The problem I see is the technology of today. We have video games, computers and every other kind of device that you can think of that allows these kids to have way more "virtual friends" than real friends. Take a look around the next time you drive through a neighborhood and take notice of how many kids are actually outside playing. Very few in my experience. Now, my son is lazy, does want everything handed to him, and will probably have a major awakening when he steps into the real world. But, he gets straight A's and stays away from the worse of the evils, i.e, bad kids, drugs, and general trouble. It is almost one of those catch 22's, do I force things on him and risk **** up the good in him, or let him experience life as it is delt to him.......
    Understood and agreed with 100%. My girls are both honor roll students, active in sports and keep their noses out of trouble - really COULD NOT ask for better kids, and I love em to death. However, one of my jobs as a parent (maybe the most important one IMHO) is preparing them for the real world and getting them ready to do for themselves when Im not around to do it for them anymore.

    I also liked what you said about your upbringing, and it was very much like mine. Want something? Work for it. Dont make enough money to get what you want from that? Get a better job, or even a second job. FIND A WAY TO GET IT DONE.

    Today's generation? It seems like the norm is to make a cursory effort IF what you want isnt handed to you, and if that doesnt work, sit on your a$$ and do nothing until it IS handed to you. It really saddens me...

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    marineatbn03marineatbn03 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭
    It is sddening, especially when at one point in my life I was a full time Marine, worked weekday and weekend nights at a night club as a bouncer, and worked weekend days for a company delivering kids amusements all over NOVA. Now it is hard to get kids to get ONE job. If I lost my job right now, I would have no qualms going to a fast food joint and working if thats what I had to do to make ends meet.
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    letsgowithbobletsgowithbob Posts: 677 ✭✭
    I completely agree with you sniper. I find myself going through the same thing with my 16 year old. When I was growing up, I never "got" anything. If I wanted something, I knew my parents weren't going to give it to me. When I was little (11) I started giving plastic bags to all the neighbors to collect cans for me. (I really wanted to get a "fancy" bicycle) They were all kind enough to save their cans for me, and after a year I had about $200.00 worth of cans. My dad told me "you can take your money and get your bike, and that's all the money you will have, or you can buy tools, and earn enough for a bike and whatever else you want". It was a pretty hard decision for a 12 year old to not have the instant gratification of the new bike, but I took the money and bought an old lawnmower and weedeater, and started mowing yards. After that I always had a way to earn money. My dad always told me that if I wanted to mow other peoples yards, that my own had to be done first at no charge to him. I didn't understand this at the time, and felt that it was a little unfair, but I realize now that it taught me the importance of helping and taking care of family first.

    When I was 14, I wanted to work as a stockboy at a liquor store(friend of the family), but I couldn't work there because I wasn't old enough. (in california it had o be a family owned business to work at that age). So my dad talked to his friend and invested 1 dollar in the liquor store, thereby legally allowing me to work in the liquor store, because now it was (at least 1 dollars worth) a family owned business.
    When I had my own son, I wanted him to have everything that I didn't, I wanted him to have all the newest video games, and the fancy bike, that I never had growing up. I coudn't quite figure out why he always gave up when he attempted a task, and why he didn't want to work at all for anything. If it involved him getting up and having to work, he would just rather go without. I kept wondering why he never had any drive, or felt any desire to earn anything for himself. It really bothered me. I have worked every day of my life to better myself, and to earn a good life for my family. Why didn't he have this ame work ethic?

    I finally realized what my dad had done for me in my childhood. He always provided me with the ability to get whatever I wanted, but never gave it to me. From the youngest age I always had to do things for myself, and figure out a way to get it for myself. He went to extremes in some cases to figure out a way to help me( going through all the legalities of buying a dollar share in the liquor store), but he never gave me anything. After a lot of reflection I finally figured out that if I wanted my son to have any drive or determination that I had to start turning his mentality around. I had to let him realize for himself what a joy it is to earn your own things, To get the sense of pride most of us have when we get our own car, boat, house, nice things for our families, fancy humidors.

    So I started small, really small. Instead of giving him money or whatever new gizmo he wanted, I started telling him that he would have to take out the trash, mow the yard, dust the blinds....etc. The reward was big at first. Mow the yard, get the new video game. It provided him with a sense of work instant reward. Then slowly over the years, we have gotten to the place of an allowance. He has chores that he has to do for free(clean his room, help out around the house) and for extra things he does, take his little brother and sister to the park so my wife can have some sanity time ( I travel for work a lot) mow the yard correctly (with a proper edge and glass clippings picked up). I'm trying to instill the sense of helping family in him (he has some things he has to do and gets nothing for) and also the sense of pride in earning things for yourself.
    Now to get the new video game it takes him sometimes a month of chores. I don't want him having unrealistic expectations when it comes to work/reward so it takes a while to earn large amounts of money.

    This summer he has been going around to the neighbors and asking them if he can mow their yard for money. I can't tell you how proud that I am of him, how far he has come, and how he understands the value of work. It's really a huge thing for me. I see the youth of today with the instant gratification that they expect. They want to start at 100 grand a year just for going to college. They think it's unfair that they don't get what they want, and they truly do not even comprehend in the slightest that they have to work for anything. I blame the kids somewhat,but I mostly feel that it's what they were trained to expect. We as parents trained them to expect unrealistic things. We taught them to take the easy way out, and that we would give them things just because they were wonderful to us. We give them all trophies when they play soccer, just for playing, not for truly earning them. we have created this monster as parents. We give them all the new video games, and society has gotten to a point where what our children have (video games, cars, colleges) are a way for us as parents to show off. We don't set a value in society on what our children earn for themselves, we set a value on what they have (and in most cases the parents give it to them as a way to brag to their friends)

    It's a status symbol that we pay 80grand a year to sen our kid to Stanford. And then we wonder why our kids who have been used as pawns for our bragging rights dont understand why they don't get freebies anymore. They don't understand that now they don't get a trophy just for joining a team, they don't understand that now to get a trophy they truly have to earn it. I blame us as parents.

    I truly don't mean to offend anyone on this forum, everyone has their own ideas and beliefs, this is just my opinion. I just thank my dad every day as I go to work, that he instilled in me the values that he did.
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    jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's an oldfart's point of view, as succinctly put as possible....

    When it comes time to cash in my chips and meet my Maker, I'll be ready to go. Mainly because I don't think I could tolerate having to deal with yet another generation or two of spoiled, petty whiners who seem to be on the increase. I have great-grandkids, so I've seen a few generations. And each generation, it seems, says,"I'm not going to be as hard on my kids as my parents were on me". You can see what the result of that is.... just check the theme of this thread.

    One example comes immediately to mind..... not long ago I happened to be driving by a nearby middle school just as it was letting out for the day. I was held behind a school bus while it finished loading and I followed it when it pulled away. Guess where its first stop was. THREE FVCKING BLOCKS FROM SCHOOL!! These were not handicapped kids - just regular kids but it was parents or people the age of parents who decided these kids shouldn't have to walk.

    I'd better stop. Not only am I getting myself all fired up but I think I'm past the point of succinctness. Anyway, you get the point.
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    stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    Just want to let you know this thread is great.
    My parents raised me in what can best be described as hyper-reality.

    I was rewarded lavishly when I did well and punished brutally when I messed up.

    The punishment only begins to make sense once you're an adult.

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    skweekzskweekz Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭
    Letsgowithbob...in the interest of keeping this post short I didn't quote what you said. But I couldn't agree more with what you and Glen said. You two are 110% right on point with exactly what I'm trying to instill in my daughter already, even though she's only 17 months old.
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    The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    stephen_hannibal:
    Just want to let you know this thread is great.
    My parents raised me in what can best be described as hyper-reality.

    I was rewarded lavishly when I did well and punished brutally when I messed up.

    The punishment only begins to make sense once you're an adult.

    The King of Hate, as usual, raises a valid point that others of us have missed in our musings on this subject. The generation (or generationS in the case of Marty and others - great post by the way jlmarta!) we speak of here not only have very little concept of having to earn what they get, they have virtually NO UNDERSTANDING that there are consequences to be paid when one does not. Excellent point Stephen. And on that note...

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    The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    skweekz:
    Letsgowithbob...in the interest of keeping this post short I didn't quote what you said. But I couldn't agree more with what you and Glen said. You two are 110% right on point with exactly what I'm trying to instill in my daughter already, even though she's only 17 months old.
    Its amazing the lessons you can teach your kids on this subject, even at a very young age.

    One day in the Air Force, my guys & I were sitting around and discussing parenting. When one of the guys mentioned his kid was going thru a hitting phase, one of my young Staff Sergeants volunteered "When my daughter hits me (referencing his 2 yr old daughter), I knock her a$$hole over teakettle."

    We all looked at him horrified! Then he explained...

    I want my daughter to understand that in this world, if you're gonna hit somebody, you had better EXPECT to get hit back."

    Tough love maybe, but when you look at it from that point of view... it actually made a good bit of sense.

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    marineatbn03marineatbn03 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭
    The Sniper:
    skweekz:
    Letsgowithbob...in the interest of keeping this post short I didn't quote what you said. But I couldn't agree more with what you and Glen said. You two are 110% right on point with exactly what I'm trying to instill in my daughter already, even though she's only 17 months old.
    Its amazing the lessons you can teach your kids on this subject, even at a very young age.

    One day in the Air Force, my guys & I were sitting around and discussing parenting. When one of the guys mentioned his kid was going thru a hitting phase, one of my young Staff Sergeants volunteered "When my daughter hits me (referencing his 2 yr old daughter), I knock her a$$hole over teakettle."

    We all looked at him horrified! Then he explained...

    I want my daughter to understand that in this world, if you're gonna hit somebody, you had better EXPECT to get hit back."

    Tough love maybe, but when you look at it from that point of view... it actually made a good bit of sense.

    Hey, I got my azz busted numerous times as a kid. Of course, back then even the teachers had a wood paddle with a duct taped handle ready to do some damage, even the principal got ahold of me once and tanned my hide. Now days you have to worry about your kid calling the cops because you put them over your knee.
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    The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    marineatbn03:
    Hey, I got my azz busted numerous times as a kid. Of course, back then even the teachers had a wood paddle with a duct taped handle ready to do some damage, even the principal got ahold of me once and tanned my hide. Now days you have to worry about your kid calling the cops because you put them over your knee.
    **** brother, who you be tellin? LOL My old man had the quickest right hand Ive ever known. EVER! Never even so much as see teh man twitch, and all of a sudden my head be ringin... LOL

    Another valid point raised - the "it takes a village..." concept. When I was in high school, teachers ALL had their own individual wooden paddles and would wear your azz OUT if you got out of line. It was a school tradition that seniors would make new paddles for their favorite teachers right before leaving school - holes drilled in them for aerodynamics, ridges to increase the whallop, all kinds of crazy ****.

    School THEN: fvck up, and you're gonna feel the consequences of your actions.

    School NOW: fvck up, and you will either be removed from class or given a time out - thereby giving you the heinous punishment of removing you from an activity you obviously dont want to be a part of in the first place. How cruel. :-(

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    0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Sniper:
    School THEN: fvck up, and you're gonna feel the consequences of your actions.

    School NOW: fvck up, and you will either be removed from class or given a time out - thereby giving you the heinous punishment of removing you from an activity you obviously dont want to be a part of in the first place. How cruel. :-(

    The terrible thing about that is, that when I was in school, there were 3 kids in the entire class that dropped out.
    Today, the drop out rate in our town is 24%. Seriously?? And the school blames the kids, parents and society. I have to believe that the school system has to play some part in it.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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    marineatbn03marineatbn03 Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭
    0patience:
    The Sniper:
    School THEN: fvck up, and you're gonna feel the consequences of your actions.

    School NOW: fvck up, and you will either be removed from class or given a time out - thereby giving you the heinous punishment of removing you from an activity you obviously dont want to be a part of in the first place. How cruel. :-(

    The terrible thing about that is, that when I was in school, there were 3 kids in the entire class that dropped out.
    Today, the drop out rate in our town is 24%. Seriously?? And the school blames the kids, parents and society. I have to believe that the school system has to play some part in it.
    A big part of the schooling is that they are far more concerned with state test preparation than actually teaching. When I started looking into it, it was because the better the kids score on the state tests, the more funding the school can get. 1/3 of the typical school year is spent in prep for these exams. And there is no consequence for kids failing.
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    jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    0patience:
    The Sniper:
    School THEN: fvck up, and you're gonna feel the consequences of your actions.

    School NOW: fvck up, and you will either be removed from class or given a time out - thereby giving you the heinous punishment of removing you from an activity you obviously dont want to be a part of in the first place. How cruel. :-(

    The terrible thing about that is, that when I was in school, there were 3 kids in the entire class that dropped out.
    Today, the drop out rate in our town is 24%. Seriously?? And the school blames the kids, parents and society. I have to believe that the school system has to play some part in it.


    Oh, the school system definitely plays a part. Our son once asked one of his daughter's teachers why she didn't correct his daughter's spelling and the teacher told him she didn't want to hurt the child's self esteem. She said, "Well, we knew what your daughter meant". It's no damned wonder newspaper reporters can't spell or even compose a correct sentence and why talking heads on the news broadcast keep using phrases such as "as of yet..". Yes, the school system definitely shares in the blame......
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    The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    jlmarta:
    0patience:
    The Sniper:
    School THEN: fvck up, and you're gonna feel the consequences of your actions.

    School NOW: fvck up, and you will either be removed from class or given a time out - thereby giving you the heinous punishment of removing you from an activity you obviously dont want to be a part of in the first place. How cruel. :-(

    The terrible thing about that is, that when I was in school, there were 3 kids in the entire class that dropped out.
    Today, the drop out rate in our town is 24%. Seriously?? And the school blames the kids, parents and society. I have to believe that the school system has to play some part in it.


    Oh, the school system definitely plays a part. Our son once asked one of his daughter's teachers why she didn't correct his daughter's spelling and the teacher told him she didn't want to hurt the child's self esteem. She said, "Well, we knew what your daughter meant". It's no damned wonder newspaper reporters can't spell or even compose a correct sentence and why talking heads on the news broadcast keep using phrases such as "as of yet..". Yes, the school system definitely shares in the blame......
    I love it when Marty gets torqued up and on a roll... GET EM BROTHER!!! :-)

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    jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Sniper:
    jlmarta:
    0patience:
    The Sniper:
    School THEN: fvck up, and you're gonna feel the consequences of your actions.

    School NOW: fvck up, and you will either be removed from class or given a time out - thereby giving you the heinous punishment of removing you from an activity you obviously dont want to be a part of in the first place. How cruel. :-(

    The terrible thing about that is, that when I was in school, there were 3 kids in the entire class that dropped out.
    Today, the drop out rate in our town is 24%. Seriously?? And the school blames the kids, parents and society. I have to believe that the school system has to play some part in it.


    Oh, the school system definitely plays a part. Our son once asked one of his daughter's teachers why she didn't correct his daughter's spelling and the teacher told him she didn't want to hurt the child's self esteem. She said, "Well, we knew what your daughter meant". It's no damned wonder newspaper reporters can't spell or even compose a correct sentence and why talking heads on the news broadcast keep using phrases such as "as of yet..". Yes, the school system definitely shares in the blame......
    I love it when Marty gets torqued up and on a roll... GET EM BROTHER!!! :-)



    Yeah, I guess I'm on my soapbox, aren't I??
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    0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jlmarta:

    Yeah, I guess I'm on my soapbox, aren't I??
    Absolutely nothing wrong with that. ; )
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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    HeavyHeavy Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭
    mmccartneydc:
    Man, it is exactly this thread that scares the $hit outta me about having kids. My wife and I got married a year ago and are thinking now about trying. Scary!
    This has been a great thread to read through. While my parents weren't quite as hardcore as some regarding discipline, they definitely taught me the difference between right and wrong, and being lazy and relying on others to give you what you want and need is definitely something instilled in me to be WRONG.

    As the father of two young children, one bit of advice I will give any parent-to-be is to READ to your child. And by read I mean read BOOKS. We have read to our kids since day one. It might feel a little odd reading to a one month old that doesn't know a book from shinola, but I think it is very beneficial and gives them a head start once they start going to school. My kids are getting to the age that they like computer games, various kids TV shows/movies etc. But they still are read to daily and my 3 and 6 year olds can read better than most in their classes. The jury is still out on how they will turn out, but I think (IMO of course) that they are starting off on a pretty good foundation.
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