Limited Edition question.

betasynn

I see a lot of "limitado" and "limited production" talk associated with cigars. What does this actually mean? How many is limited?

Rob1110

depends on who's making it. Some cigar makers, like 5 vegas, put out a limitada or some type of limited blend every year and change something up the next year. Other retailers only put out so many cigars per year but put that blend out every year (that number ranges greatly - some will consider a 600,000 cigar run limited, while others may only put out 50,000 per year - eye of the beholder type of thing). Then there's others that will only run a certain cigar for a limited time and never make that cigar again. Rocky Patel also puts out seasonal blends every year.

kuzi16

Rob1110:

depends on who's making it. Some cigar makers, like 5 vegas, put out a limitada or some type of limited blend every year and change something up the next year. Other retailers only put out so many cigars per year but put that blend out every year (that number ranges greatly - some will consider a 600,000 cigar run limited, while others may only put out 50,000 per year - eye of the beholder type of thing). Then there's others that will only run a certain cigar for a limited time and never make that cigar again. Rocky Patel also puts out seasonal blends every year.

exactly. 5 vegas Series A is made all the time every year. the Cask Strength II will only be made once. one run

betasynn

Excellent. So there is a market for limited cigars.

Garen B

Don't forget the oddballs, for instance the Padilla Obsidian used to be a limited edition, but then was picked up by (site that shall not be named) and now are are just a regular, pick em up whenever cigar, but still has limited edition on the label. But most importantly, the blend didn't change.

Then you have something like the Gurkha Black Dragon, super rare, super expensive tobaccos that probably taste heavenly, was a limited edition run of 500 cigars, each at a cool 1,150$ per cigar. Now if you look on c.com, you can find a cigar with the same name, but at 12$ a stick. This is because the blend changed, you get the same basic flavor profile of the expensive one, but at the cost of the finer nuances and lower profile flavors. They kept the name, but re-blended the cigar.

As to your market question, there is always a market for a cigar, even if its a dog rocket, because somewhere out there, there is always a guy that will buy it.

betasynn

Actually, one of the things I love most about smoking cigars is trying new ones, and really just seeing how many varieties there are. It's really fantastic; when I go to a walk in humidor, it's like being a kid in a candy store again.

smbrink

Dude I totally agree 100%

phobicsquirrel

Garen B:

Don't forget the oddballs, for instance the Padilla Obsidian used to be a limited edition, but then was picked up by (site that shall not be named) and now are are just a regular, pick em up whenever cigar, but still has limited edition on the label. But most importantly, the blend didn't change.

Then you have something like the Gurkha Black Dragon, super rare, super expensive tobaccos that probably taste heavenly, was a limited edition run of 500 cigars, each at a cool 1,150$ per cigar. Now if you look on c.com, you can find a cigar with the same name, but at 12$ a stick. This is because the blend changed, you get the same basic flavor profile of the expensive one, but at the cost of the finer nuances and lower profile flavors. They kept the name, but re-blended the cigar.

As to your market question, there is always a market for a cigar, even if its a dog rocket, because somewhere out there, there is always a guy that will buy it.

I am very curious to taste the first blend of the dragon. I've had several black dragons and can say that I'm not too impressed with them. Now the green/fury and fires I do like.

Rob1110

kuzi16:

the Cask Strength II will only be made once. one run

Seriously? Dude, thanks for the intel! I'm dying to try the ONE I actually have on hand and I know ccom is backordered with these. I'll have to be sure to jump on a box when they come in!

j0z3r

betasynn:

Excellent. So there is a market for limited cigars.

You better believe there is a market for limited run cigars...can you say Oliva Serie V maduro? The bulk of those cigars were gone before they were even available...not really, but it does seem that way.

One of my favorite cigars was a limited run, the La Aurora 1495 cameroon 1994. Basically it is the 1495 blend, but instead of the normal wrapper, they used a 1994 vintage cameroon wrapper. They only had so much wrapper leaf, and it was a one time production, never to be replicated.

Limited runs give you a chance to sample some tobaccos that are sometimes too scarce to facilitate a full production, and many companies want to be able to steadily produce a cigar, so they will pass on these tobaccos because there is simply not enough of it. So all in all, I think limited runs give you a chance to sample something unique...sometimes it's good, sometimes they may as well have never made it.

Alex_Svenson

I like this thread. Good question and everyone here hit the nail on the head. I am going to also add that sometimes a "limited edition" cigar is a way a maker hedges his bet. It is sad, but it happens more often than you think. For example, he may come out with a limited edition (only 100,000 cigars a year) and it could totally flop and he will say, "it was a limited edition" OR it could be a hit and he will say "oh I found 10 billioin more pounds of tobacco so this will be available ongoing". At the end of the day, what makes a cigar rare is how many cigars they make annually. Most of the times the number fluctuates, but as a cigar catches on, the maker wants to buy more tobacco to make more and the grower starts growing more so in a few years, it isnt really all that limited anymore. That is just my .02 In a lot of ways, I wish the cigar industry were more like the wine industry in that they use the same grapes every year, but the flavor changes with the harvest. This creates vintages and truly rare collectable wines and each brand always has a great year and a bad year but every year, wine enthusiasts try everything and find new favorites. In cigars, they use the same tobaccos and regions but makers always change the blend or recipe to ensure consistency. I guess it is a matter of preference. The cigar industry has chosen consistency over vintage. I just wonder what it would be like the other way around. Maybe someday there can be both, like with whisky. You can have single malts that may change over time or blended whiskys that are consistent year to year, and even single barrel blends that are one shot deals from rare tobaccos. Anyway, just some food for thought. Sorry to rant.

Luko

Very interesting insight...I love thei comparsions and contrasts with the wine industry. I was reading on a thread here recently that someone (can't remember whom) said RP edge has become extremely inconsistent and that the tobacco used in the blend has just degraded...a poor vintage. So does that happen...do certain tobaccos/blends just go downhill? Can they improve?

gmill880

Alex Svenson:

I like this thread. Good question and everyone here hit the nail on the head. I am going to also add that sometimes a "limited edition" cigar is a way a maker hedges his bet. It is sad, but it happens more often than you think. For example, he may come out with a limited edition (only 100,000 cigars a year) and it could totally flop and he will say, "it was a limited edition" OR it could be a hit and he will say "oh I found 10 billioin more pounds of tobacco so this will be available ongoing". At the end of the day, what makes a cigar rare is how many cigars they make annually. Most of the times the number fluctuates, but as a cigar catches on, the maker wants to buy more tobacco to make more and the grower starts growing more so in a few years, it isnt really all that limited anymore. That is just my .02 In a lot of ways, I wish the cigar industry were more like the wine industry in that they use the same grapes every year, but the flavor changes with the harvest. This creates vintages and truly rare collectable wines and each brand always has a great year and a bad year but every year, wine enthusiasts try everything and find new favorites. In cigars, they use the same tobaccos and regions but makers always change the blend or recipe to ensure consistency. I guess it is a matter of preference. The cigar industry has chosen consistency over vintage. I just wonder what it would be like the other way around. Maybe someday there can be both, like with whisky. You can have single malts that may change over time or blended whiskys that are consistent year to year, and even single barrel blends that are one shot deals from rare tobaccos. Anyway, just some food for thought. Sorry to rant.

Great insight-rant on anytime brother

betasynn

You bring up a fantastic point, and actually something I can relate to, despite my age; as a little kid, when everyone wanted to be like, Superman or a firefighter, I wanted to be a vintner. Up until about 16 or 17, that was my dream, so since I was ten, I've been sampling wines, and know my way around a glass. That being said, I'm not an expert, but I do stick to brands I like year in and year out; and the flavor can fluctuate heavily. Cigars should be like that too. And there are some makers who do things like that, or change the blends slightly year by year; the 5 Vegas Limitadas for example, are produced yearly with variations, as are some of the higher end cigars like God of Fire and even, from what I can gather, Opus X. This is great, and it creates some rarities that people will talk about. As a younger person, I'm pleased that people at my age level are starting to get into cigars more then the '18 year old birthday single' which is always an overpriced Cohiba or CAO, since those are the most well-marketed. Not, mind, that there is anything wrong with that, but thats where it ends. At least that isn't as bad as the kids I know who still smoke Dutch Master or White Owl, or Jules Sweet. I digress. My point is, no matter how much somebody decides to change a blend, to exactly replicate a taste, an aging profile, the whole cigar, it wont be the same. I think there are still probably better years then others. And I hope, as more young people enter this market, and it becomes more popular with the introduction of reasonably priced premium and super premium sticks, that the industry takes on a 'collect them all' approach and creates vintages. That is my return rant.

kuzi16

Rob1110:

kuzi16:

the Cask Strength II will only be made once. one run

Seriously? Dude, thanks for the intel! I'm dying to try the ONE I actually have on hand and I know ccom is backordered with these. I'll have to be sure to jump on a box when they come in!

yeah, i only had 5 of the original cask strength (they are a slightly different blend). i miss that cigar. the last two i had went up in smoke with my dad.