Any mechanics?
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Get home from work trip and notice a sound coming from wife's car. Take it to dealer and they say the oil pressure is dropping. Nothing they can do except replace the whole engine. My first thought was the oil pump faulty? Apparantly it's a problem in the block but I don't understand how that can be determined. Getting a second opinion tomorrow. There have been no warning signs, it's regularly maintained and before this the engine sounded like it did when it was brand new. 2003 Ford Explorer with 164625 miles. Any technical advice much appreciated.
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Without taking actual oil pressure readings with a mechanical gauge (pulling the oil pressure sensor and installing a mechanical gauge), it's hard to say. But if it had a lower end noise, then it's likely the bearings are toast and other damage has occurred.
But, did the dash oil pressure gauge drop? Did the oil light come on?
If not, the noise could be from a bad harmonic balancer/crank pulley, loose torque converter or flexplate bolts or a cracked flexplate.
Was the noise loud, like someone tapping on the engine with a hammer? Or soft, like a loud clock ticking?
Did the noise get louder at an idle or under heavy load? Did it go away at cruising speeds or get louder?
Getting a second opinion is the best thing you can do right now. And what ever you do, don't tell the new shop what the other shop said. All you will do then is put the thought into their head. Have them do proper diagnosis to determine where the problem really is.
Did they pull the oil filter? If they did, they should be able to open it up, pull the filter element and lay it out and see if there is metal in the pleats. If there is, then yes, you have a serious internal problem.
Without seeing it and hearing the noise, it is really difficult to come up with things to focus on.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
unfortunately since it is the oil pressure it can be effected by many many things main bearing, timing chain, gaskets, oil pump, etc
Sorry, I'm all dressed up with nowhere to go and boy am I bored.
Have you started the vehicle since they made their diagnosis? And what does the dash oil pressure gauge say?
Did they check the fan clutch to see if it wasn't making noise? A fan hub that has bearing failure will allow the fan blades to clip the fan shroud and make considerable noise.
What does the oil look like? Is it black, fairly clean looking or milky color? Knowing some of these answers may help.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
This reminds me of something that happened to a car of mine once. Got home after working out of town all week, usually only had time with the family on Sundays back then, went for a drive to the lake, car makes noise, shudders to a stop. Got out, checked under the hood, found NO oil on the dipstick. I asked my (first) wife: "Has it been leaking oil?"
Her reply: "Well, it was, but it stopped so I thought it fixed itself"
Hope your story turns out better.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
There are no check engine lights, oil looks fine on the dash, nothing to indicate a problem besides the noise. I have not had a chance to look at the engine itself. I'm good at minor repairs but not a wrench head. It makes this noise when first starting, driving, and I believe until you turn it off. The dealer did say they saw the oil pressure drop from 21 to 19 psi. I dropped I off at another place and only told them it was making a noise and will let them figure it out.
The dealer didn't offer any evidence the engine was bad, just that it needed to be replaced. I asked about the oil pump and whether it was bad and they didn't really answer yes or no. I'm hoping that they were just being lazy and didn't want to really take apart the engine to see where the problem was and figured I would just buy a new engine. Crossing my fingers. The dealer wanted $5400.
My Girlfriend's whole family is like that, by the time a car is 6 year old they have to trade it in, it will be nearly dead. Somehow they can justify spending to get a fully loaded escape but not spend the money on fixing their horridly rutted driveway that they have had to have their cars suspensions fixed due to.... *grumble* *grumble* *grumble* Her dad freaked out when we made the Florida-Ohio roadtrip in a 1998 GMC Suburban that had 180k+ on it, he couldn't understand how it was still going.
I cannot stress enough how much you need a second opinion from a reliable shop.
Your problem does not sound like an internal problem, from what you've said. It is possible, but from the info you have given, I doubt it.
I checked with my mechanics group to see if they have any recommendations for shops or if any of them are in your area and one of them recommended checking with Ted's Garage or Becka Automotive in Chula Vista.
I can't vouch for them, as this came from another mechanic in the LA area.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
Any opinions would be welcome, and I'd like to ask a second question - how much is too much to replace sagging engine mounts?
But for the most part, it sounds more like an electrical problem. Which could be a sensor, the wiring or a relay.
Most 2000-up vehicles, in general have a low oil pressure shut down on them. If the sensor "sees" low oil pressure, it will generally signal the computer to shut the engine down to prevent damage to the engine. Which is one reason that Jame's problem doesn't match the diagnosis from the dealer.
So, if the sensor has a problem or the signal wire or ground has an issue, it can cause intermittent problems, such as the one you are running into.
Generally, when this happens, it will store a fault code. (Not always, which can become a royal pain if there are no fault codes)
If you can have the fault codes/trouble codes read and get the number (it will be something like P0100-P1900), which some auto parts stores, such as Autozone offer a free code reading and print out, then we may be able to see if it is a computer issue or a circuit problem.
But what YOU can do is check that the battery connections are clean and tight. Newer vehicles are real particular about good grounds. They tend to get pissy when the grounds aren't clean and tight.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
If the timing chain has never been replaced, after a while, the chain stretches. Like a bicycle chain.
There are rub pads in the timing chain cover/housing that, for lack of a better term, guide the chain and a tensioner that is supposed to keep the chain taught.
What happens is that the tensioner may fail or the rub blocks get worn away and the chain "slaps" the timing chain cover.
Any good shop will be able to narrow it down fairly quickly. If the noise is coming from the forward part of the engine, suspect the timing chain or the fan hub. If it is coming from under the vehicle, suspect either the flywheel/torque converter.
Was the engine temp higher than normal? Or did it maintain the temp in the normal range?
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
the noise I heard sounded like a belt issue - its not metal on metal. The dealership said the noise was caused by the dropping oil pressure messing up the timing belt. They haven't found anything yet as it didn't make te noise when I dropped it off. Thanks so much for the help so far.
If it sounds like a belt, then it could be that the belt tensioner has a problem. Ford updated the tensioners on those engines a few years back, so it wouldn't surprise me. With the engine running, there is one pulley that has a square hole in the arm of it for a ratchet to go into. If that pulley is bouncing when the engine is running, then the pulley has a problem and will cause the belt to make noise. Whether that is actually the problem or not, I don't know.
Let me ask you this, was it raining on the day it made this noise?
If it was, then yeah, it is possible that the belt itself was making the noise.
Noise problems are always hard to figure out, especially from written words, cause it often takes a while to get all the information about what is going on.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
So my question is; is this normal behavior for this engine? I didn't notice it acting that way when it was new. Now it has about 115k miles on it. I had the major maintenance at 90k which also changed the timing belt. The engine runs like a top and sounds fine. The check engine light comes on but not for low oil pressure, I think the mechanic said it was coming on for a O2 sensor. I've actually been driving it this way for the last 6mo. not too concerned about it, as neither of the shops I went to seemed too concerned either. Should I be concerned?
I had a client with a Toyota Land Cruiser with the same problem. Turns out, the oil pressure sensor on that vehicle worked on resistance. There was corrosion on the connector and it was fluctuating the same exact way. Cleaned the connector and terminal on the sensor and all was okay. Check that out first.
We see this a lot on the Ford F series trucks.
But if it continues to be a concern, they can hook up a mechanical gauge and verify it.
One of the first tests I perform when there is an oil pressure concern is to remove the oil pressure sensor and install a hose with a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it and see what the "true" oil pressure is. If the mechanical gauge shows no problem, then it is is in the sensor or circuit.
One thing to remember on electrical dash gauges, they are NEVER accurate. The give a "baseline".
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
Understand that with written words, there are often a lot of back and forth questions and answers so that the mechanic can understand what the problem is.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
I did throw out that due to mileage could it be timing chain/tensiorer? He said that was his first thought but it should be okay. THanks for the help so far and I will update tomorrow.
If you went to the doctor and got a diagnosis that seemed off, you'd get a second opinion, wouldn't you?
And who's word do you take to heart more? So if it is acceptable to get a second opinion from a doctor, then getting a second opinion from another shop should be acceptable.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.