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Trade with Cuba

LuvMycigar.blogspot.comLuvMycigar.blogspot.com Posts: 35
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I was just wondering how the cigar industry in the United States will be changed if at all if trade with Cuba begins to thaw. Will all the producers set up shop there? Will it be a non-event? Will we see an increase in cigar brands available?

Comments

  • benskibenski Posts: 24 ✭✭
    You jest, I imagine? :) Just over half the worldwide cigar production comes out of Cuba - Habanos SA which manages Cuba's cigar output does around 400 Million USD worth of business a year globally from the existing markets (everywhere in the world apart from US). You can bet your bottom dollar that conversation is happening in the backchannels around the market for Cuban cigars potentially doubling in size when (and not if) the embargo comes down. I don't know if the factories have capacity to produce all that extra product (somehow I doubt it - you don't create rollers overnight) - but it will be interesting to see how Cuba copes with the extraordinary leap in demand we are likely to see. Some conjecture: It will start with the conoscenti - those "in the know" - writing articles and full top-down reviews of the various cuban vitolas and brands in the existing marketplace - prior to the embargo being lifted. This will generate interest amongst the second tier (early adopters, curious folk, poseurs). If all goes well - as with Brandy, Champagne, quality Whiskey or other consumable premium items - much of Cuba's output will acquire a premium or super-premium status (to borrow rankings from the Spirits industry). However they will need to retain good QC and find a price point that is tolerable (particularly given the tough market conditions at the moment). Some of the existing inventory will be diverted for the US market whilst production is ramped up. Regular, existing US based smokers who enjoy Cubans (like myself) will pick them up legally, and the entire world will sigh with relaxation as you fondle the embossed band of a beautiful Cohiba robusto, whilst admiring the delicious aroma of these marvellous cigars! Who knows - cigar.com may even have a business development plan that involves speculation on what would happen to their bottom line when trade with Cuba becomes legal. Let's see what happens!
  • Dude LoveDude Love Posts: 315
    I think the quality will go down, at least for a little while. It'll also be interesting to see the responses by the non-Cuban brands.
  • betasynnbetasynn Posts: 1,249 ✭
    I think the biggest revelation will be that cubans aren't the holy grail of cigars; I think there will be great ones, good ones, and bad ones, like every other brand.
  • smbrinksmbrink Posts: 406 ✭
    I dont really see why we dont trade with cuba. We trade with China...
  • Rob1110Rob1110 Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭
    Dude Love:
    I think the quality will go down, at least for a little while. It'll also be interesting to see the responses by the non-Cuban brands.
    Agreed and Beta made a good point as well. People might finally realize that Cuban cigars are not the be-all, end-all of cigars....or, there may just be enough knuckleheads in this country that simply fall for the hype of the forbidden fruit, smoke up what they can, once that gets old, demand will slow down and maybe quality will go back up. It also may be a good thing for us, where non-cuban brands may have to lower prices or simply put out better smokes (maybe start blending with cuban tobacco) to compete.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    Rob1110:
    Dude Love:
    I think the quality will go down, at least for a little while. It'll also be interesting to see the responses by the non-Cuban brands.
    Agreed and Beta made a good point as well. People might finally realize that Cuban cigars are not the be-all, end-all of cigars....or, there may just be enough knuckleheads in this country that simply fall for the hype of the forbidden fruit, smoke up what they can, once that gets old, demand will slow down and maybe quality will go back up. It also may be a good thing for us, where non-cuban brands may have to lower prices or simply put out better smokes (maybe start blending with cuban tobacco) to compete.
    there are many that think the quality of cuban cigars IS down because of the government run farms. Many of the families left when their farms were taken over by the government.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO
  • brsmith21brsmith21 Posts: 207
    As I'm not old enough to have smoked any real pre-embargo cuban cigars, and my experience with post-embargo cubans is limited, I don't really know how much quality was affected by the government seizure and exodus. That being said, I am very happy with both the quality and variety that is available from the other countries in the region. If the embargo were lifted, I would add the newly available (to me) cuban brands that I haven't tried to the other brands that I am slowly working my way through trying, but in all honesty I appreciate the efforts and blends that are available to me right now and I personally want to support them and would (will) continue to do that. Just my two cents.
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947 ✭
    laker1963:
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO

    My understanding regarding the soil and fertilizer issue Laker is that the government of Cuba did not allocate money for fertilizer for the state ran farms. It had nothing to do with not having fertilizer or how long tobacco had been or had not been grown there. It had everything to do with the Cuban govt. spending the cash for it....Thats how I understand it and I will look for the link to some very interesting and eye opening articles about Cuba and their cigars and their soil. Since none of us (I don't believe) are Cubans living in Cuba and directly involved in the cigar mfg business there, all we have is what we are told/read to go by ...time is always the truest test ...we'll see ...
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,131 ✭✭
    I also understand that it isn't so much about the soil, but as the demand for Cuban cigars goes up they tend to try to produce them more quickly and this hurts the aging and fermentation process which in turn hurts the quality of the cigars. Not because the soil is over worked.
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947 ✭
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO

    My understanding regarding the soil and fertilizer issue Laker is that the government of Cuba did not allocate money for fertilizer for the state ran farms. It had nothing to do with not having fertilizer or how long tobacco had been or had not been grown there. It had everything to do with the Cuban govt. spending the cash for it....Thats how I understand it and I will look for the link to some very interesting and eye opening articles about Cuba and their cigars and their soil. Since none of us (I don't believe) are Cubans living in Cuba and directly involved in the cigar mfg business there, all we have is what we are told/read to go by ...time is always the truest test ...we'll see ...
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947 ✭
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO

    My understanding regarding the soil and fertilizer issue Laker is that the government of Cuba did not allocate money for fertilizer for the state ran farms. It had nothing to do with not having fertilizer or how long tobacco had been or had not been grown there. It had everything to do with the Cuban govt. spending the cash for it....Thats how I understand it and I will look for the link to some very interesting and eye opening articles about Cuba and their cigars and their soil. Since none of us (I don't believe) are Cubans living in Cuba and directly involved in the cigar mfg business there, all we have is what we are told/read to go by ...time is always the truest test ...we'll see ...

    This would be an excellent place for Alex to weigh in --I would love to hear his insight and opinions on this ...Alex...???
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO

    My understanding regarding the soil and fertilizer issue Laker is that the government of Cuba did not allocate money for fertilizer for the state ran farms. It had nothing to do with not having fertilizer or how long tobacco had been or had not been grown there. It had everything to do with the Cuban govt. spending the cash for it....Thats how I understand it and I will look for the link to some very interesting and eye opening articles about Cuba and their cigars and their soil. Since none of us (I don't believe) are Cubans living in Cuba and directly involved in the cigar mfg business there, all we have is what we are told/read to go by ...time is always the truest test ...we'll see ...


    Kewl, thanks G. I have read articles on both sides of this issues, and always look to read and learn anything I can. Like any agricultural product, some crop years are better then others for many different reasons, global climate change not the least among them. As for the stories about the government not allocating money for the feilds to get fertilizer... I have read where that is not the case at all.
    You have to admit, other cigar producing countries would benefit greatly if the cigar purchasing consumer were convinced that the Cubans were not tending their crop fertilization programs correctly to the detriment of their cigar industry. This type of "information program" happens all the time in the business world between countries. There is nothing new here.
    The fact was also raised about the quality of Cuban cigars taking a hit because of the extra demand which is sure to put pressure on an industry which is already strained to meet it's production quota. That is where I see some co-operative ventures being carried out between the Cuban's and other countries cigar industries. They can both benefit from the other being willing to co-operate or they can try to compete with each other to the detriment of them both.
    The Cubans will need the extra rolling capacity of these non Cuban companies and these companies will be able to introduce new lines of cigars using Cuban leaf.
    I just believe that this whole thing is just an international trade thing more then any true agricultural crisis for the Cubans. Again...JMO
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947 ✭
    laker1963:
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO

    My understanding regarding the soil and fertilizer issue Laker is that the government of Cuba did not allocate money for fertilizer for the state ran farms. It had nothing to do with not having fertilizer or how long tobacco had been or had not been grown there. It had everything to do with the Cuban govt. spending the cash for it....Thats how I understand it and I will look for the link to some very interesting and eye opening articles about Cuba and their cigars and their soil. Since none of us (I don't believe) are Cubans living in Cuba and directly involved in the cigar mfg business there, all we have is what we are told/read to go by ...time is always the truest test ...we'll see ...


    Kewl, thanks G. I have read articles on both sides of this issues, and always look to read and learn anything I can. Like any agricultural product, some crop years are better then others for many different reasons, global climate change not the least among them. As for the stories about the government not allocating money for the feilds to get fertilizer... I have read where that is not the case at all.
    You have to admit, other cigar producing countries would benefit greatly if the cigar purchasing consumer were convinced that the Cubans were not tending their crop fertilization programs correctly to the detriment of their cigar industry. This type of "information program" happens all the time in the business world between countries. There is nothing new here.
    The fact was also raised about the quality of Cuban cigars taking a hit because of the extra demand which is sure to put pressure on an industry which is already strained to meet it's production quota. That is where I see some co-operative ventures being carried out between the Cuban's and other countries cigar industries. They can both benefit from the other being willing to co-operate or they can try to compete with each other to the detriment of them both.
    The Cubans will need the extra rolling capacity of these non Cuban companies and these companies will be able to introduce new lines of cigars using Cuban leaf.
    I just believe that this whole thing is just an international trade thing more then any true agricultural crisis for the Cubans. Again...JMO

    Very insightful ...thanks Laker
  • ScramblerScrambler Posts: 746 ✭✭
    At an event, Rocky Patel told me he thinks it will be a decade after the embargo ends before any good tobacco comes out of Cuba, because the soil is trashed. Whether or not you agree with this, demand will surge initially.

    I'd be interested to see Cuban tobacco incorporated into various blends. Right now, aside from the stuff using pre-embargo tobacco, all habanos are puros. A Nicaraguan wrapper with a cuban filler might be tasty.

    In any event, shortly after the election in November, I invested a large portion of my portfolio in Imperial Tobacco, the British company that owns 50% of Habanos S.A.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO

    My understanding regarding the soil and fertilizer issue Laker is that the government of Cuba did not allocate money for fertilizer for the state ran farms. It had nothing to do with not having fertilizer or how long tobacco had been or had not been grown there. It had everything to do with the Cuban govt. spending the cash for it....Thats how I understand it and I will look for the link to some very interesting and eye opening articles about Cuba and their cigars and their soil. Since none of us (I don't believe) are Cubans living in Cuba and directly involved in the cigar mfg business there, all we have is what we are told/read to go by ...time is always the truest test ...we'll see ...


    Kewl, thanks G. I have read articles on both sides of this issues, and always look to read and learn anything I can. Like any agricultural product, some crop years are better then others for many different reasons, global climate change not the least among them. As for the stories about the government not allocating money for the feilds to get fertilizer... I have read where that is not the case at all.
    You have to admit, other cigar producing countries would benefit greatly if the cigar purchasing consumer were convinced that the Cubans were not tending their crop fertilization programs correctly to the detriment of their cigar industry. This type of "information program" happens all the time in the business world between countries. There is nothing new here.
    The fact was also raised about the quality of Cuban cigars taking a hit because of the extra demand which is sure to put pressure on an industry which is already strained to meet it's production quota. That is where I see some co-operative ventures being carried out between the Cuban's and other countries cigar industries. They can both benefit from the other being willing to co-operate or they can try to compete with each other to the detriment of them both.
    The Cubans will need the extra rolling capacity of these non Cuban companies and these companies will be able to introduce new lines of cigars using Cuban leaf.
    I just believe that this whole thing is just an international trade thing more then any true agricultural crisis for the Cubans. Again...JMO

    Very insightful ...thanks Laker
    well we can all agree that we will all be ordering cubans when this crap is over with.. well except our furry Canadian friend as he doesn't have to undergo this crap.
  • smbrinksmbrink Posts: 406 ✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    gmill880:
    laker1963:
    There are VERY many folks who have smoked Cuban cigars and claimed them to be the best cigar they have ever smoked. There seems to be a little envy or jelousy rearing it's head over this issue.
    All this talk (and it is just that) about the soils being over-worked and under fertilized... What do you think the only place to buy fertilizer is in the US?
    This is just silly. Cubans are extremely good, and when they hit the US market it will impact on the other countries around the world who produce cigars. However I can forsee all kinds of partnerships between old friends and companies in order for the Cuban industry to ramp up it's production while collaborating with non-cuban companies to introduce the Cuban lines into the US. Cigar companies in the US and elsewhere will have to form partnerships with the Cuban company's to ensure they are not left behind, at least in the short term. This should lead to a whole new batch of reasonably priced Cuban and non Cuban cigars to hit the N. American markets. As it stands right now... the Cuban Cigar business is doing just fine, and the only people who are making comments about the soils being worked out seem to forget they have been growing tobacco in Cuba for a lot longer then 1958, why would the soils be suffering now? Cuban cigars are and will continue to be outstanding. Why all the fuss?, there are many outstanding cigars out there from countries other then Cuba as well.. IMO

    My understanding regarding the soil and fertilizer issue Laker is that the government of Cuba did not allocate money for fertilizer for the state ran farms. It had nothing to do with not having fertilizer or how long tobacco had been or had not been grown there. It had everything to do with the Cuban govt. spending the cash for it....Thats how I understand it and I will look for the link to some very interesting and eye opening articles about Cuba and their cigars and their soil. Since none of us (I don't believe) are Cubans living in Cuba and directly involved in the cigar mfg business there, all we have is what we are told/read to go by ...time is always the truest test ...we'll see ...


    Kewl, thanks G. I have read articles on both sides of this issues, and always look to read and learn anything I can. Like any agricultural product, some crop years are better then others for many different reasons, global climate change not the least among them. As for the stories about the government not allocating money for the feilds to get fertilizer... I have read where that is not the case at all.
    You have to admit, other cigar producing countries would benefit greatly if the cigar purchasing consumer were convinced that the Cubans were not tending their crop fertilization programs correctly to the detriment of their cigar industry. This type of "information program" happens all the time in the business world between countries. There is nothing new here.
    The fact was also raised about the quality of Cuban cigars taking a hit because of the extra demand which is sure to put pressure on an industry which is already strained to meet it's production quota. That is where I see some co-operative ventures being carried out between the Cuban's and other countries cigar industries. They can both benefit from the other being willing to co-operate or they can try to compete with each other to the detriment of them both.
    The Cubans will need the extra rolling capacity of these non Cuban companies and these companies will be able to introduce new lines of cigars using Cuban leaf.
    I just believe that this whole thing is just an international trade thing more then any true agricultural crisis for the Cubans. Again...JMO

    Very insightful ...thanks Laker
    well we can all agree that we will all be ordering cubans when this crap is over with.. well except our furry Canadian friend as he doesn't have to undergo this crap.
    Speaking of... where is that little bugger??? I thought he woulda come down from the lofty tree tops to throw that fact in our non-cuban havin American faces.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    Hey, now would I do that ??
    And I am NOT furry, those are just my long underware. It's friggin' cold up here you know!!
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
    lol, isn't it doncha' know...
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947 ✭
    Scrambler:
    At an event, Rocky Patel told me he thinks it will be a decade after the embargo ends before any good tobacco comes out of Cuba, because the soil is trashed. Whether or not you agree with this, demand will surge initially.

    I'd be interested to see Cuban tobacco incorporated into various blends. Right now, aside from the stuff using pre-embargo tobacco, all habanos are puros. A Nicaraguan wrapper with a cuban filler might be tasty.

    In any event, shortly after the election in November, I invested a large portion of my portfolio in Imperial Tobacco, the British company that owns 50% of Habanos S.A.

    Well for my two cents worth I'm not sure about what you guys think but I'm damn sure Rocky Patel knows more about it than me ...
  • FoodislifeFoodislife Posts: 10
    I think it will be more attractive to the Tax Man. This craziness with trying to extract dollars from any crack available is scary. Here in California they have taken all the proposition items that were voted DOWN and simply added them to the new "Budget". We threw out one Gobber because he doubled the car registration "fee" and Arnold just adds it to the budget. When Trade begins with Cuba, a brand new taxable Item comes into view. They will never stop trying, well, not until they win that is.
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