cigar firmness

JZerby

I've noticed this with a lot of cigars, but it seems like lighter colored cigars are more firm than darker ones. I thought it was a size thing at first. Coronas being smaller just are not as full as robustos cuz there is less tobacco and so they are just softer for that reason. But I got a Man o War sampler that had 4 different kinds and the Virtues are firmer than the Ruinations and Armada. And I picked up a 5 pack of Verdadero Organics in the Sprint Sale and they were more firm as well. The Organics and MOW's were robusto. Is there a reason darker cigars are a little less firm than lighter ones?

allsmokedup

I think that's because darker wrappers are thicker and hold more wateroil. More moisture would lead to more 'give' when they're groped.

Lee.mcglynn

I'm going with Connecticut wrappers have more elasticity so it's easier to wrap around tighter without the leaf tearing

jlmarta

I've noticed a little different problem lately. Some cigars, and it doesn't seem to matter which brand/blend/vitola, occasionally have a soft spot in them somewhere. I can feel it by gently squeezing the cigar in places along its length. Some spots feel like they don't have the same amount of tobacco as the rest of the cigar.

And, when you're smoking it and the burn gets to the soft spot it's hard to keep it lit. Seems to me it can only be blamed on the torcedores, but it seems to be happening more frequently lately.

EDIT: Just this morning, for example, I torched up an A. Turrent Triple Play - one of the big fat ones - and about an inch into it there's a soft spot a little over an inch long. Already I'm having trouble keeping it lit.

scarlin

It also has to do with the rolling. Some roll tighter than others and the occasional soft spots may be uneven filler stacks. Soft spots may be a wetter spot too which i suspect.

Direwolf

If it starts getting too firm try thinking about baseball

jliu

Direwolf:

If it starts getting too firm try thinking about baseball

or may I suggest a reduction? Some of you men might think why?! But true story. There is such a thing. Alleviates back pain.

kuzi16

scarlin:

It also has to do with the rolling. Some roll tighter than others and the occasional soft spots may be uneven filler stacks. Soft spots may be a wetter spot too which i suspect.

yes.
the wrapper color has very little to do with the give in a cigar. it is all about bunching, mainly how "full" the cigar is. Camacho PEs are rolled very loose. 5 Vegas AAA is very Full. if you have both of these cigars (kept at the same RH) you will not only notice a difference in weight, but you will notice a difference in how firm they feel and also a difference in how fast they burn.

Vision

Direwolf:

If it starts getting too firm try thinking about baseball

Or you could just think of Jiunn..... Nope... Too sexy.

*Petey*

kuzi16:

scarlin:

It also has to do with the rolling. Some roll tighter than others and the occasional soft spots may be uneven filler stacks. Soft spots may be a wetter spot too which i suspect.

yes.
the wrapper color has very little to do with the give in a cigar. it is all about bunching, mainly how "full" the cigar is. Camacho PEs are rolled very loose. 5 Vegas AAA is very Full. if you have both of these cigars (kept at the same RH) you will not only notice a difference in weight, but you will notice a difference in how firm they feel and also a difference in how fast they burn.

This makes sense Kuzi, thanks. a few follow on questions.

Is there a preferable "firmness" that rollers go for? Just wondering, I mean I gather that too tight = pluged and too loose = wind tunnel, but why the variation between the PE and the AAA you mentioned above? personal preference of the blender? or is there more to it? Do some tobaccos do better rolled tighter vs more loosly? Is rolling it ighter the blenders way of forcing us to slow down?

kuzi16

*Petey*:

This makes sense Kuzi, thanks. a few follow on questions.

Is there a preferable "firmness" that rollers go for? Just wondering, I mean I gather that too tight = pluged and too loose = wind tunnel, but why the variation between the PE and the AAA you mentioned above? personal preference of the blender? or is there more to it? Do some tobaccos do better rolled tighter vs more loosly? Is rolling it ighter the blenders way of forcing us to slow down?

im sure it has much to do with personal preference of the blender depending on what tobacco is used.

if some tobacco blends better and tastes better if it burns a bit hotter then they will roll a cigar that is loser and burns a bit faster. the opposite with tobacco that tastes better when smoked slowly. again, this is all opinion.

*Petey*

kuzi16:

*Petey*:

This makes sense Kuzi, thanks. a few follow on questions.

Is there a preferable "firmness" that rollers go for? Just wondering, I mean I gather that too tight = pluged and too loose = wind tunnel, but why the variation between the PE and the AAA you mentioned above? personal preference of the blender? or is there more to it? Do some tobaccos do better rolled tighter vs more loosly? Is rolling it ighter the blenders way of forcing us to slow down?

im sure it has much to do with personal preference of the blender depending on what tobacco is used.

if some tobacco blends better and tastes better if it burns a bit hotter then they will roll a cigar that is loser and burns a bit faster. the opposite with tobacco that tastes better when smoked slowly. again, this is all opinion.

That probably makes a lot of sense and I bet they wing it once they get a rough idea of what the blend's "ingredients" are. Like you said they probably some some samples and say, this one was hot, lets roll it tighter to force those to slow down, etc, etc.

I'm also guessing, now that I think about it, that they could also hedge against any combustion issues as well. Say with the some of the ligero filled blends out there today, maybe they try the blend in a traditional robusto size first but with that much ligero in it they realize that a real tight roll, although it tastes great because its burning cool, it needs a bit looser draw to help it burn evenly. Then maybe they bump it from a 50 rg to a 52 rg with the exact same recipe. I wonder. If you ever make it back to nicaragua, and if you think of it I'd be curiuous to hear what some of those folks say.

I don't know why but the firmness or the weight of a cigar has always had me wondering, but for some reason I never asked. some folks attribute it to quality, but thats not really the case. Similar to ash color and strength. Its more a reflection of whats in it, rather than a direct relationship of more firm = better.

This was helpful. Thanks man.

kuzi16

*Petey*:

kuzi16:

*Petey*:

This makes sense Kuzi, thanks. a few follow on questions.

Is there a preferable "firmness" that rollers go for? Just wondering, I mean I gather that too tight = pluged and too loose = wind tunnel, but why the variation between the PE and the AAA you mentioned above? personal preference of the blender? or is there more to it? Do some tobaccos do better rolled tighter vs more loosly? Is rolling it ighter the blenders way of forcing us to slow down?

im sure it has much to do with personal preference of the blender depending on what tobacco is used.

if some tobacco blends better and tastes better if it burns a bit hotter then they will roll a cigar that is loser and burns a bit faster. the opposite with tobacco that tastes better when smoked slowly. again, this is all opinion.

That probably makes a lot of sense and I bet they wing it once they get a rough idea of what the blend's "ingredients" are. Like you said they probably some some samples and say, this one was hot, lets roll it tighter to force those to slow down, etc, etc.

I'm also guessing, now that I think about it, that they could also hedge against any combustion issues as well. Say with the some of the ligero filled blends out there today, maybe they try the blend in a traditional robusto size first but with that much ligero in it they realize that a real tight roll, although it tastes great because its burning cool, it needs a bit looser draw to help it burn evenly. Then maybe they bump it from a 50 rg to a 52 rg with the exact same recipe. I wonder. If you ever make it back to nicaragua, and if you think of it I'd be curiuous to hear what some of those folks say.

I don't know why but the firmness or the weight of a cigar has always had me wondering, but for some reason I never asked. some folks attribute it to quality, but thats not really the case. Similar to ash color and strength. Its more a reflection of whats in it, rather than a direct relationship of more firm = better.

This was helpful. Thanks man.

the ligero laden 5 Vegas AAA is heavy as all get out, its firm to the touch and the draw has a decent resistance on the draw. it burns slow. the Camacho 1962 is not as heavy in any way. it has less ligero and is clearly rolled looser. i find it burns very quickly. (as does the PE). I dont think the difference is Ligero. i think the difference is in actual combustibility stemming from nutrients in the soil, fermentation, and age. but most importantly i still think this goes back to the blenders preference and aiming for a specific series of events.