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Palate warmups?

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,917 ✭
in Cigar 101
Lately, I've been running into some taste issues. Most times the cigars don't have much taste to me, whether I pair with water or coffee or beer. I definitely don't have a developed palate concerning cigars but I'm wondering if there are suggestions or guidelines for warming up your palate pre light? Kind of like stretching your taste buds prior to smoking. One thing I noticed, in my random attempts to figure it out, is I paired a cigar with non-sweetened ice tea (no sugar either). I really didn't get much from the pairing until I held some of the tea in my mouth and then took a drag on the cigar and then blew the smoke out. Then the flavor change was noticeable.

Also, will you get the same flavor profile from a small drag vs. a big drag? I'm starting to second guess everthing now and overthink it, which leads to me obsessing over the cigar vs. just enjoying the experience.

Comments

  • jliujliu Posts: 7,735 ✭✭✭✭
    hmmm. Are you staying hydrated? I realized that when I'm not, all cigars taste ashy and charcoal-ish to me.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    james40:
    Lately, I've been running into some taste issues. Most times the cigars don't have much taste to me, whether I pair with water or coffee or beer.
    if you are smoking for taste alone i dont suggest beer. water is ok. coffee should be good. it is acidic in nature and cigar smoke in alkaline. the contrast makes for good workout for the taste buts. they work best when they dont "get used to" a flavor.
    james40:
    I definitely don't have a developed palate concerning cigars but I'm wondering if there are suggestions or guidelines for warming up your palate pre light? Kind of like stretching your taste buds prior to smoking.
    i usually heat an orange about an hour before i smoke. my mouth by smoke time does not taste of orange but there is still some residual acidity. given the above info, this works well for me.
    james40:
    One thing I noticed, in my random attempts to figure it out, is I paired a cigar with non-sweetened ice tea (no sugar either). I really didn't get much from the pairing until I held some of the tea in my mouth and then took a drag on the cigar and then blew the smoke out. Then the flavor change was noticeable.
    fresh brewed or powdered?

    james40:
    Also, will you get the same flavor profile from a small drag vs. a big drag? I'm starting to second guess everthing now and overthink it, which leads to me obsessing over the cigar vs. just enjoying the experience.
    yes.
    and no.

    the longer you draw the hotter it will become. also the stronger you draw the hotter it will become. also the more frequent you draw the hotter it will become. aim for easier, longer, less frequent draws. should get you to where you want to be.


    if you do not have a method for smoking, i suggest you pick one up.
    a very common smoking method is the "1,2,3 method"
    this involves taking a puff every minute or so. each "puff" is actually 3 puffs. the first two being very short and the last one being the long easy pull to fill the mouth. as in 1 short, 2 short, 3 long puff.
    I use a modification of this 50% of the time.
    -1,2,3. this is where i do one short puff out through the cigar, then one short puff in then a long easy draw to fill the mouth with smoke. the other 50% of the time is just one long easy draw.

    blowing the smoke out is another thought here on smoking method. some out through the mouth, and some out through the nose. depending on strength of the cigar somewhere between 30% and 60% of the smoke of every puff is out through the nose. this opens up facets of flavor that you cannot get without it.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    jliu:
    hmmm. Are you staying hydrated? I realized that when I'm not, all cigars taste ashy and charcoal-ish to me.
    ah yes... the thing i forgot about. throughout your life stay hydrated. a wet palate tasted better than a dry one.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,917 ✭
    kuzi16:
    james40:
    Lately, I've been running into some taste issues. Most times the cigars don't have much taste to me, whether I pair with water or coffee or beer.
    if you are smoking for taste alone i dont suggest beer. water is ok. coffee should be good. it is acidic in nature and cigar smoke in alkaline. the contrast makes for good workout for the taste buts. they work best when they dont "get used to" a flavor. I do know that beer can and will overpower most cigars or just conflct too much. 40% of the time water, 50% coffee, 10% beer.
    james40:
    I definitely don't have a developed palate concerning cigars but I'm wondering if there are suggestions or guidelines for warming up your palate pre light? Kind of like stretching your taste buds prior to smoking.
    i usually heat an orange about an hour before i smoke. my mouth by smoke time does not taste of orange but there is still some residual acidity. given the above info, this works well for me. I will try this, thanks.
    james40:
    One thing I noticed, in my random attempts to figure it out, is I paired a cigar with non-sweetened ice tea (no sugar either). I really didn't get much from the pairing until I held some of the tea in my mouth and then took a drag on the cigar and then blew the smoke out. Then the flavor change was noticeable.
    fresh brewed or powdered? Fresh brewed. I don't use sugar in either the tea or coffee. There is a slice of lemon though if that makes a difference.

    james40:
    Also, will you get the same flavor profile from a small drag vs. a big drag? I'm starting to second guess everthing now and overthink it, which leads to me obsessing over the cigar vs. just enjoying the experience.
    yes.
    and no.

    the longer you draw the hotter it will become. also the stronger you draw the hotter it will become. also the more frequent you draw the hotter it will become. aim for easier, longer, less frequent draws. should get you to where you want to be.


    if you do not have a method for smoking, i suggest you pick one up.
    a very common smoking method is the "1,2,3 method"
    this involves taking a puff every minute or so. each "puff" is actually 3 puffs. the first two being very short and the last one being the long easy pull to fill the mouth. as in 1 short, 2 short, 3 long puff.
    I use a modification of this 50% of the time.
    -1,2,3. this is where i do one short puff out through the cigar, then one short puff in then a long easy draw to fill the mouth with smoke. the other 50% of the time is just one long easy draw.

    blowing the smoke out is another thought here on smoking method. some out through the mouth, and some out through the nose. depending on strength of the cigar somewhere between 30% and 60% of the smoke of every puff is out through the nose. this opens up facets of flavor that you cannot get without it.
    I do have one but have modified it since, however, I think I've been drawing too hard. I do retrohale as well but don't do it every draw but do it every cigar. I'd say about 35% of the draws on each cigar I retrohale. Also, I do keep hydrated, thanks. I noticed that food has a more pronounced taste after a cigar. So I think my taste buds are there and working but I'm doing something wrong....thanks for the suggestions, some things to try for sure.
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hot dawg. I want to buy the book: The Collected Wisdom of Kuzi. Is it out yet?

    I am going to be all over that 1 2 3 method this very night.

    Hot dawg.

    Meanwhile, weak fresh squeezed lemonade works best for me. Weak. Same effect as the orange.

    Damn. I need a smoke, now.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    webmost:
    Hot dawg. I want to buy the book: The Collected Wisdom of Kuzi. Is it out yet?

    I am going to be all over that 1 2 3 method this very night.

    Hot dawg.

    Meanwhile, weak fresh squeezed lemonade works best for me. Weak. Same effect as the orange.

    Damn. I need a smoke, now.

    also try how i do it with the -1,2,3 for half of the puffs and the ooooooooooonnnnnnneeeeeee the other half of the time. also push the time between puffs to 1.5 minutes apart. thats very close to how i smoke.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know, but when I clicked on this thread, I was expecting to see some hot gal in leg warmers doing exercises. image
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,917 ✭
    0patience:
    I don't know, but when I clicked on this thread, I was expecting to see some hot gal in leg warmers doing exercises. image
    so your girlfriend rolls a Honda, doing workout tapes by Fonda.
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    webmost:
    Hot dawg. I want to buy the book: The Collected Wisdom of Kuzi. Is it out yet?

    I am going to be all over that 1 2 3 method this very night.

    Hot dawg.

    Meanwhile, weak fresh squeezed lemonade works best for me. Weak. Same effect as the orange.

    Damn. I need a smoke, now.

    also try how i do it with the -1,2,3 for half of the puffs and the ooooooooooonnnnnnneeeeeee the other half of the time. also push the time between puffs to 1.5 minutes apart. thats very close to how i smoke.
    Now, see, the reason I love kuzi is, he takes the time to tell us ignorant newbs what everyone else probably already knows. That's invaluable..

    I did the 1 2 3 last night on an EP Carrillo New Wave. That sucker mother method rocks. One minute keeps the stick cool, two quick hits keeps the stick burning, then one long hit gets your flavorful volume. See, everyone else probably knew this but me. Of course, I wasn't watching a timer, so one time might have been 45 secs, next time two minutes. I have no idea, cause my hands were busy preparing broadleaf for wrappers. I like to smoke fooling round in the garage. I'll try alternating with the one super long between the 1 2 3s.

    I owe the whole cigar experience to two guys: Paul, the geek at the B&M who shows me what to smoke, and Kuzi, who tells me how. Dude, you ever need your ass kissed, I'm your man (... uh, only in a long distance write nonsense on a forum jabbering praise kinda way, yunnerstand, so don't whip em down round yer ankles quite yet)

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    webmost:
    I owe the whole cigar experience to two guys: Paul, the geek at the B&M who shows me what to smoke, and Kuzi, who tells me how. Dude, you ever need your ass kissed, I'm your man (... uh, only in a long distance write nonsense on a forum jabbering praise kinda way, yunnerstand, so don't whip em down round yer ankles quite yet)

    ya see... i totally know what you are talking about. i have my cigar "mentors" as well. i speak nothing but praise for those guys as well. Matt, who used to work at the local B&M (and is now he reason why i dont go there because the manager fired him) is the guy who helped me develop my palate, and our very own Alex Svenson who has helped me with blending theory and tobacco processing knowledge.

    since you are pointing at me im gunna pass the buck to those guys. if it wasnt for them i would know nothing.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • bbass2bbass2 Posts: 1,059 ✭✭
    I kept having burn problems until I tried this. I'm a pretty slow smoker and just taking one draw each time wasn't enough to keep it burning straight. Thanks guys!
  • JZerbyJZerby Posts: 122
    james40:
    Lately, I've been running into some taste issues. Most times the cigars don't have much taste to me, whether I pair with water or coffee or beer. I definitely don't have a developed palate concerning cigars but I'm wondering if there are suggestions or guidelines for warming up your palate pre light? Kind of like stretching your taste buds prior to smoking. One thing I noticed, in my random attempts to figure it out, is I paired a cigar with non-sweetened ice tea (no sugar either). I really didn't get much from the pairing until I held some of the tea in my mouth and then took a drag on the cigar and then blew the smoke out. Then the flavor change was noticeable.

    Also, will you get the same flavor profile from a small drag vs. a big drag? I'm starting to second guess everthing now and overthink it, which leads to me obsessing over the cigar vs. just enjoying the experience.
    I've found that if I try different kinds of draws when I start a cigar that I can find one that works for it, and it ends up being different for different cigars. I've found I need larger draws for milder smokes and smaller ones for more full-bodied to get the flavors I'm seeking. And it's different for different sizes and different cigars. I usually find it after three or 4 draws and then it's just a matter of making sure I don't draw too often. Warming up beforehand, though, I just sip whatever I'm drinking (usually rum and coke or Kamora and coffee) and then wait a few seconds and light it up!
  • *Petey**Petey* Posts: 375 ✭
    james40:
    I'm starting to second guess everthing now and overthink it, which leads to me obsessing over the cigar vs. just enjoying the experience.
    Just throwing out my two cents here. couple of thoughts which may not help you at all, but based on all the above statement, I have a thought.

    Not trying to disagree with the kuzi method, becuase it works for him and thats what this hobby is about, trying new things and seeing if they work for you and then making your own normal. BUT, Since you feel like your overthinking it, won't a palate warm up and then a -123, method with 35% retrohale and 1.5 minutes between puffs, enhance the overthinking that your already doing? Again, anything is worht a shot, but keep this in mind.

    Have you been smoking a lot of the same type of stuff? I ran into a taste issue a while back and Then I looked through my bands from the last couple of monthsa nd I realized that my last 10 cigars or so we're all AJ blends, and that was what made everything taste the same. So I took a break for a month, and then made it a point to smoke anything but AJ, and I found my love for cigars again. Also I remembered why I'm a blind DPG follower, and why AVO's are great, that fuente's are a unique smoke and that I relaly enjoy a good padron.

    Anyway, for me, cigars are meant for relaxing, so if Kuzi's taste suggestions don't work for you, give this a shot but remember, DON"T TAKE NOTES, or anything else, while your trying to undue the overthinking. just go hang out with just you and the cigar and your thoughts and relax.

    Anyway see if this works.
  • jliujliu Posts: 7,735 ✭✭✭✭
    *Petey*:
    james40:
    I'm starting to second guess everthing now and overthink it, which leads to me obsessing over the cigar vs. just enjoying the experience.
    Just throwing out my two cents here. couple of thoughts which may not help you at all, but based on all the above statement, I have a thought.

    Not trying to disagree with the kuzi method, becuase it works for him and thats what this hobby is about, trying new things and seeing if they work for you and then making your own normal. BUT, Since you feel like your overthinking it, won't a palate warm up and then a -123, method with 35% retrohale and 1.5 minutes between puffs, enhance the overthinking that your already doing? Again, anything is worht a shot, but keep this in mind.

    Have you been smoking a lot of the same type of stuff? I ran into a taste issue a while back and Then I looked through my bands from the last couple of monthsa nd I realized that my last 10 cigars or so we're all AJ blends, and that was what made everything taste the same. So I took a break for a month, and then made it a point to smoke anything but AJ, and I found my love for cigars again. Also I remembered why I'm a blind DPG follower, and why AVO's are great, that fuente's are a unique smoke and that I relaly enjoy a good padron.

    Anyway, for me, cigars are meant for relaxing, so if Kuzi's taste suggestions don't work for you, give this a shot but remember, DON"T TAKE NOTES, or anything else, while your trying to undue the overthinking. just go hang out with just you and the cigar and your thoughts and relax.

    Anyway see if this works.
    totally agree with Boyd here. And to truly gauge if you've relaxed with your smoke, if you wanna take a poopie at the end of the smoke, then you've done a great job. Just my two cents
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,917 ✭
    Great suggestions by everyone. Thank you. I did have a cigar last night and I had to stop myself from drawing way too hard. I actually retrohaled less and enjoyed the cigar more. I have been mixing it up pretty well but I don't save too many bands my memory could be playing tricks on me. As for pooping, I'm like Sheldon Cooper, just earlier. Between 7:00-7:25am everyday, whether I have coffee or not.
  • jliujliu Posts: 7,735 ✭✭✭✭
    james40:
    Great suggestions by everyone. Thank you. I did have a cigar last night and I had to stop myself from drawing way too hard. I actually retrohaled less and enjoyed the cigar more. I have been mixing it up pretty well but I don't save too many bands my memory could be playing tricks on me. As for pooping, I'm like Sheldon Cooper, just earlier. Between 7:00-7:25am everyday, whether I have coffee or not.
    right on James me too. high five *slap*
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    *Petey*:


    Not trying to disagree with the kuzi method, becuase it works for him and thats what this hobby is about, trying new things and seeing if they work for you and then making your own normal. BUT, Since you feel like your overthinking it, won't a palate warm up and then a -123, method with 35% retrohale and 1.5 minutes between puffs, enhance the overthinking that your already doing? Again, anything is worht a shot, but keep this in mind....
    ...Anyway, for me, cigars are meant for relaxing, so if Kuzi's taste suggestions don't work for you, give this a shot but remember, DON"T TAKE NOTES, or anything else, while your trying to undue the overthinking. just go hang out with just you and the cigar and your thoughts and relax.

    Anyway see if this works.
    what you are talking about here is one of two things.


    1) finding the right level of caring. caring less is not a bad thing. it can be good. when you think too much and work to hard it can suck all the fun out of it. happens with many things on life.

    or

    2) having that zen moment. it just happens. there is no thought behind it. there is just understanding. you can taste the country, the soil, the fermentation. you understand the cigar on a level that is beyond words.

    that comes in time and doesnt happen often. when it does, you will be look at cigars differently from then on.
    *Petey*:


    Have you been smoking a lot of the same type of stuff? I ran into a taste issue a while back and Then I looked through my bands from the last couple of monthsa nd I realized that my last 10 cigars or so we're all AJ blends, and that was what made everything taste the same. So I took a break for a month, and then made it a point to smoke anything but AJ, and I found my love for cigars again. Also I remembered why I'm a blind DPG follower, and why AVO's are great, that fuente's are a unique smoke and that I relaly enjoy a good padron.

    yes.
    i dont know if there is any way i could agree more.
    while in nicaragua, we spent the entire day smoking heavy nicaraguan blends that we picked up all day. 4-5 smokes a day. when night fell we found ourselves on the roof of the hotel relaxing. i made sure to bring dominicans. Avo, LFD Fuente.
    they were a good change of pace.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's my one-two punch for most anything in life from playing sports to fixing motorcycles:

    First, learn to do it right, then
    Learn to relax.

    Bad habits persist when I confuse the order in which these two steps occur.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,917 ✭
    Just want to thank everyone as my last two cigars have been great. I warmed up with some lemonade about 30 minutes prior. I paired a GH Vintage 2002 with some water and it was really good and I enjoyed the finish. I then paired a MoW PA Maduro with coffee and had trouble not burning my fingers.

    I didn't realize how far away from the 1,2,3 technique I had veered until you brought it up and then I focused on doing it. It also helped a couple of other issues I had. I didn't mention them because I thought this might fix those as well. I noticed I retrohale less frequently now because I'm picking up on the flavors more and more consistently.

    Thanks again.
  • *Petey**Petey* Posts: 375 ✭
    kuzi16:
    *Petey*:


    Not trying to disagree with the kuzi method, becuase it works for him and thats what this hobby is about, trying new things and seeing if they work for you and then making your own normal. BUT, Since you feel like your overthinking it, won't a palate warm up and then a -123, method with 35% retrohale and 1.5 minutes between puffs, enhance the overthinking that your already doing? Again, anything is worht a shot, but keep this in mind....
    ...Anyway, for me, cigars are meant for relaxing, so if Kuzi's taste suggestions don't work for you, give this a shot but remember, DON"T TAKE NOTES, or anything else, while your trying to undue the overthinking. just go hang out with just you and the cigar and your thoughts and relax.

    Anyway see if this works.
    what you are talking about here is one of two things.


    1) finding the right level of caring. caring less is not a bad thing. it can be good. when you think too much and work to hard it can suck all the fun out of it. happens with many things on life.


    allright, back in town. Sorry for the late response here.

    Yeah Kuzi you nailed it here with this one. Finding your level of caring is the perfect way to put what I was trying to say. More caring is good for some but bad for others. Same for less caring.

    I'm a slave to my routines and schedules with my work and my family life so I make cigars my escape from all that. So for me I get so much more out of the hobby when I push everything out of my mind for that hour or hour and a half, or whatever it is. So that the reason I brought up the fact that less can be more as well. I go off taste as my driver of my smoking method. If it tastes bitter I slow down, if it goes out I speed up, if I want to retrohale I will, if I don't then I wont, and this all works out for me. So I just wanted to offer up that if what you suggested didn't work out then maybe he should try the exact opposite in the quest we all have to find our preferred smoking method.
    kuzi16:
    *Petey*:


    Have you been smoking a lot of the same type of stuff? I ran into a taste issue a while back and Then I looked through my bands from the last couple of monthsa nd I realized that my last 10 cigars or so we're all AJ blends, and that was what made everything taste the same. So I took a break for a month, and then made it a point to smoke anything but AJ, and I found my love for cigars again. Also I remembered why I'm a blind DPG follower, and why AVO's are great, that fuente's are a unique smoke and that I relaly enjoy a good padron.

    yes.
    i dont know if there is any way i could agree more.
    while in nicaragua, we spent the entire day smoking heavy nicaraguan blends that we picked up all day. 4-5 smokes a day. when night fell we found ourselves on the roof of the hotel relaxing. i made sure to bring dominicans. Avo, LFD Fuente.
    they were a good change of pace.
    haha, right on, man. And yeah, I think with all the deals on AJ blends a lot of folks on this forum can easily fall into a humidor that is FULL of one blender, and he's VERY good, but the similarities in them all can some sometimes overshadow the differneces if you smoke too many of one thing, and then your palate can get all out of whack. At least that happened for me. Variety is something I shoot for in this hobby, even though I know WAY more about my palate and what I like and dislike, then when I first joined almost 2 years ago.
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