Colorado Shooting
Lasabar
Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
I'm sure we've all heard/read/seen about the shooting in Colorado and my heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to those people. I cannot even think about what that is like to be in a room full of people all panicking at the same time and having to react to that. It's truly a travesty that so many people were injured or killed.
For those of you that are firearm people and me getting into the hobby I have a question. Have you ever broken a law or taken a weapon (Concealed or not) where it was prohibited for you'd rather be safe and have a ticket than be threatened?
I know that if you take a gun where it is prohibited the repercussions are limitless and they could fine you, jail you, and your rights to your own weapons would be at stake, but here's an example I'm thinking about.
At my job there is no firearms allowed in the building, open or concealed, and the companies rules also state that you cannot have a weapon on property (i.e. even in the parking lot)
But after this shooting, I'm wondering if I couldn't keep a gun in my car and that I'd rather have "somewhat" of a close weapon than no weapon at all, and if I truly needed the weapon I know if I used it I could potentially be fired, but I'd rather have no job and my life than follow the rules and be harmed. (I also understand that a gun in my car is potentially useless and for it to truly be effective it would have to be on my person, but I would not take that chance when there is no threat even though I'd like to)
Keep in mind of the author of this thread, I will not engage in any political stuff or arguments, I will most likely be drunk soon, but just wondered if anyone else has had these thoughts that my life is more important than some laws...
For those of you that are firearm people and me getting into the hobby I have a question. Have you ever broken a law or taken a weapon (Concealed or not) where it was prohibited for you'd rather be safe and have a ticket than be threatened?
I know that if you take a gun where it is prohibited the repercussions are limitless and they could fine you, jail you, and your rights to your own weapons would be at stake, but here's an example I'm thinking about.
At my job there is no firearms allowed in the building, open or concealed, and the companies rules also state that you cannot have a weapon on property (i.e. even in the parking lot)
But after this shooting, I'm wondering if I couldn't keep a gun in my car and that I'd rather have "somewhat" of a close weapon than no weapon at all, and if I truly needed the weapon I know if I used it I could potentially be fired, but I'd rather have no job and my life than follow the rules and be harmed. (I also understand that a gun in my car is potentially useless and for it to truly be effective it would have to be on my person, but I would not take that chance when there is no threat even though I'd like to)
Keep in mind of the author of this thread, I will not engage in any political stuff or arguments, I will most likely be drunk soon, but just wondered if anyone else has had these thoughts that my life is more important than some laws...
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I know a few people who are gun nuts (not the crazy types) and they have conceal permits however they know how to use their weapon. I ran into a guy at a pizza place a few months ago, he was a biker religious dude that even said as much on his leathers and he was packing a glock on his belt fully exposed. I read it as CONCEALED permit not "hey look at my gun" permit. I talked to him about it, tried to ask him why he was wearing it out in the open and he said it was his right and all that. I simply said, "dude, there are children here and family's, it's a bit inappropriate." He was all about he would protect people if someone came in shooting. I found it rather silly as most of the time it ends up people like him shoot another patron or get shot by the cops. Either way he was a whack job.
I would rather guns not be accessible by people like him however it ain't going to happen. Guns are guns and ultimately if it wasn't guns it would be something else that kills us. I sure hope that this doesn't lead to having the TSA at theaters now. I mean They are already going to be around malls and stuff soon.
At my work, it would more likely be robbery and we decided that it would be more dangerous to confront the robber with a weapon than to just let them take what they want and then let the police do their thing. Of course we are not in control of what scenerio might possibly happen so like I said it's all about what you are comfortable with. If the perceived danger increases in my area that might change my decision also.
That's where I'm at anyhow. Maybe our experts in the police that are members here would have a better perspective.
I think I could take a life if my life were on the line. I also know the scenarios in which my firearm is not by me do me no good even if it's closer as in the car.
I also had the reaction to 12 dead and 70 injured that if Colorado had a CCW and someone was carrying the situation might be lessened.
The question is, is it?
To me it wasnt. I worked in a place that i would have more than likely spent a lot of time in jail for if i had been caught, but to me...the people that i worked with and their lives were more important to me than the legal problems i could have potentially had.
Or that you can't carry a concealed weapon into the back country? If that is the case, why can't you carry on a hip holster?
I can't imagine going into the woods without a weapon. Least not around here.
One thing to consider. Even some law enforcement and some military have difficulties knowing for certain where there target is in the midst of a heated gunfight. I've seen first hand where a gunfight erupted and while the parties were less than 50 ft apart, at least 12 shots were fired and not one hit anything.
So if you carry a weapon, are you certain that you will have the mindset to not let adrenaline escalate your senses and cause you to miscalculate?
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
A guy tried to jump through my passenger window.. As another car was pulling out of a parking stall in front of me (in a safeway parking lot). So i leaned over and started to pull my Glock21. . Luckily when he realized what was going on he scurried away as I drew. Scariest single event of my life.
The police were called by myself and some people who witnessed it. While waiting for the cops to show up I unchambered the weapon and dropped the mag and placed it on the hood (as advised by the dispatcher). The cops drew on me as they got out of there cars told be get on my belly and patted me down asked were the weapon was and I told them. They picked it up cleared it then proceeded to drop it. He then bent over to grab it and kicked it. Scuffing the slide. Cops ran my info and talked to the people who saw the event. The one cop mentioned something about a brandishing charge. But nothing came of it.
I can honestly say I was shaking for a couple of hours afterwards and Ill never forget that mans eyes. I was scarred. A scuffed slide and dealing with some cops who didn`t exactly make it easy on me was well worth the end result. Had I not been carrying who knows what would have happened or if he hadnt gotten out of the window in that instant. 7 years later I still carry and dont think twice about it. Ive seen what 185 grain +p golden sabres do to fruits and vegetables hopefully thats the only I thing I ever see destroyed by those things.
I think a better response would be, "well, I'm probably gonna get shot anyway, might as well try to tackle the guy from the rear/side." But that's given the benefit of knowing he was the only gunman, which the people in the theater probably couldn't know.
Not being there, it's easy to say what you would have wanted to do. Actually carrying that out in real time is a different story.
I'm concerned that now more places are going to ban firearms, including concealed carry, even though it's obvious that such a policy wouldn't have prevented this tragedy.
I tend to see a lot of signs on places such as shopping malls too. Our law specifically states that a land lord can not restrict it's tenants or guests from concealed carry. If you google concealed carry Mall of America you can see some funny stories and videos of people testing that law.
For whats its' worth, I'm an old peace-nic from the 70's and have never handled a weapon. But, I'd scratch a man's eyes out to protect your 2nd amendment rights.
For the self defense plea to work, it has to be self defense. If you went out to your car, and went back in, it seems to me like you would be spending some serious time behind bars, I couldn't do that part.
Now if you want the gun for the drive to and from work, and if you stop at the store, I say go for it. Most states have laws that say you can keep it in your personal vehicle if you have a concealed carry permit. I would definitely have one. My wife is finally getting hers.
I look at it like this. If I don't have a gun on me, it's useless....thats pretty much it.
Now, with that said, if he'd not been able to get firearms, he could have simply devised a way to introduce a large quantity of gasoline and a spark to the theater.
And then they'd outlaw gasoline, right? OF COURSE NOT!
For me, the dwindling freedoms we have left in the West hinge on the American population remaining armed to the teeth, and being willing to fight for freedom here.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
This right was guaranteed us by men who had recently gambled their lives in bloody revolt. Their idea was born of centuries of stooges in tin suits who stifled and bled the populace on the behalf of high handed monarchs. Why did Paul Revere ride at night? To alert the colonists that redcoats were coming to confiscate their weapons. Why did the French storm the Bastille? Because it was an armory. Bolivar did not make weapons; weapons made the Bolivar. Muskets. Gunpowder. Not empty speeches. Assault weapons. Not enlightened philosophes pondering ideals at the Academie Francais. The fact any armed citizen could punch a hole through a tin suit. That's what did the trick. Muskets made men free.
Some will die ensuring this freedom. Freedom does not come for free.
An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is but a subject. There is no doubt about this whatever. Now, our short sighted modern American socialist liberals disregard history at our grandchildren's peril. They delude themselves that it's all different now. They always prefer to think that the correct thought is the prettiest belief. They daydream of a benevolent government smarter and kinder and more responsible than people. Fairy tales. Government is a scheme whereby the rich and powerful perpetuate their pilth and power. Always has been. Always will be. Will always take things as far as it can until it is stopped. This is not Disneyland. Do not despise history. These are the leopard's spots. In the long sweep of history, there has never once been a good government. There have only been too few, too far apart, for too brief a time, which have at least not been bad enough to warrant the torrents of blood and chaos required to overthrow them for an uncertain result.
Get real. Your right to bear arms is no more about 12 people killed in a movie theater than your automobile is about 120 people who died that same day in auto accidents.
"...Now, our short sighted modern American socialist liberals disregard history at our grandchildren's peril. They delude themselves that it's all different now. They always prefer to think that the correct thought is the prettiest belief. They daydream of a benevolent government smarter and kinder and more responsible than people. Fairy tales. ..."
"Define your enemy and speak for him." - Joseph Goebbels
This may be the single most hateful statement I have ever heard anyone say about the Government of the United States of America. The hate behind this statement should not be reviled, but rather pitied, because it is truly pitiful and singularly ugly.
I love the United States of America, and our great good government that has declared that common men and women shall be equal before the law, and that the authority of the elected shall derive from the consent of the governed. I say the government of the United States of America is a good government, and shall remain so as long as the people of the United States remain good, and true to the ideals that allow us to live in freedom and prosperity. Those who doubt it would do well to remember these words:
"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before usthat from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotionthat we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vainthat this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedomand that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Abraham Lincoln
'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still."
Ronald Reagan
About a year ago, the nut-job in Norway committed acts of atrocity similar to that which sparked this conversation, does anyone know what Norways gun laws are like? I heard someone on the news say something along the lines of "We're not in line with the other western nations on our gun laws" , So, I'm wondering if Norwegians have a similar sort of "2nd Amendment" type of guarantee? And, how did that affect the nut-job killer there?
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain