Why limited releases?

scarlin

So I was looking at zeebra's pickup of Ratzillas and I thought to myself, why do cigar companies do super limited releases? What is the business aspect behind it.. I am a business guy and can't figure it out. Why not do limited releases and then based on the reviews pump more and more out and milk a blend for all its worth and then when sales drop start discontinuing the line. I look at some of the Unico series by DE and just wonder why some are such good cigars and so limited. Note: This does not apply to annual limited releases or memorial releases (ie Don Carlos). If I knew FFPs were gonna be available for a while I would definitely pick a lot up down the line, rather they are limited and I can't find em.

Anyway, end of my thoughts. What are yours?

phobicsquirrel

eh, I think they are retarded. I hate having to chase them and it's a real pain as I really don't have any shops around me that get any of the limited stuff. So I either have to have a fellow botl get me the cigars or I have to get lucky with a online vendor. I can appreciate that some of the limited stuff is because of the one time crop or due to rare wrappers or tobacco. Most of the Tats I like are the limited stuff which I missed out on because I either couldn't find any or didn't have the coin the day they came out and they go so fast. I've been trying to get a nice stash of the Rex's and Pork Tenderloin for some time now with not much luck.

catfishbluezz

So they can charge more for a product.... Create hype, create limited supply, and the demand is there to pay beyond the actual value. It's BS....and other then the ISOM LE's that used aged tobacco, I don't see the need nor do I buy the hype.

Sporus

I put some thought into this when I bought a box of OSOK's. It was, what, a 1000 boxes of each size? retailing for an average of $10 a stick? That's 300k, retail. Not sure exactly what that means for Booth's bottom line, but after development, marketing (and marketing and marketing) and distribution my conservative guess is a pre-tax 50k. I hope he made more, its a great stick. However, he was certainly able to cash out quickly and paying for the tobacco and rollers is probably much cheaper than we all imagine.

my thinking is this:

The limited releases create demand and buzz surrounding your brand. It makes money and sells your brand.

Steve2010

While I'm not a fan of "manufactured scarcity", if a blender only has **** amount of a certain tobacco, I'd rather see them put out a LE blend, than let it sit somewhere NOT being used.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I really dislike when a blender continues a line when it should have died out. Case in point: Rocky Patel Vintage 90/92.
As popular as this lineup was a while back, it's hard to believe that they are using tobacco from the same crop. I'm probably wrong, but I personally believe that they're using different (more recent/modern) tobacco, but using the same name to sell cigars.

But then again, what do I know?

catfishbluezz

Agree with that Steve, as the osok is one I love. I just hate not being able to get say super shots from viaje

Steve2010

Keep an eye out for the Room 101 Daruma. Those look awesome.

bigfnsteve

Steve2010:

Keep an eye out for the Room 101 Daruma. Those look awesome.

Room 101 is doing some interesting stuff. OSOK 2 and some unreleased Camacho stuff that is my understanding pretty well aged. Being a murderer of OSOK sticks I`m really looking forward to some of, the new stuff. I just hope its not cost prohibitive.

Scrambler

Steve2010:

. Case in point: Rocky Patel Vintage 90/92.
As popular as this lineup was a while back, it's hard to believe that they are using tobacco from the same crop. I'm probably wrong, but I personally believe that they're using different (more recent/modern) tobacco, but using the same name to sell cigars.

I believe they're pretty open with the fact that the wrapper on the 90 is 12 years old and the wrapper on the 92 is 10 years old, regardless of which year it was made in. The first year, 1990 and 1992 tobaccos were used, this year tobacco from 2000 and 2002 are being used.

kuzi16

Steve2010:

While I'm not a fan of "manufactured scarcity", if a blender only has **** amount of a certain tobacco, I'd rather see them put out a LE blend, than let it sit somewhere NOT being used.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I really dislike when a blender continues a line when it should have died out. Case in point: Rocky Patel Vintage 90/92.
As popular as this lineup was a while back, it's hard to believe that they are using tobacco from the same crop. I'm probably wrong, but I personally believe that they're using different (more recent/modern) tobacco, but using the same name to sell cigars.

But then again, what do I know?

agreed on all accounts. if there are only small quantities of a wrapper leaf, thousands of 90+ ratings wont mean a damn thing as far as continuing the line goes.

simple supply and demand from there create a larger profit. fewer of them, demand is high. price goes up.

so, the next logical question is:
why dont they grow more of that leaf?

and thats a good question.
look at the OpusX. that is a limited release. it is expensive. so why dont they grow more leaf?

simple answer: they cant.

the size of the farm, the terrain, the weather, the processing, the fermentation, and the sorting out blemishes all keep the supply of that wrapper leaf down.


it isnt all a conspiracy to charge more for cigars or piss people off by making them search.
there are a few companies that do it for hype alone, but i dont deal with hype. i deal with flavor.
i also tend not to deal with those companies.
in regards to rocky patel:

Scrambler:

I believe they're pretty open with the fact that the wrapper on the 90 is 12 years old and the wrapper on the 92 is 10 years old, regardless of which year it was made in. The first year, 1990 and 1992 tobaccos were used, this year tobacco from 2000 and 2002 are being used.

then they should take off the word "Vintage" so there is no longer this sentiment. it is not "vintage 1990" they can call it the "1990 series" and "1992 series"

i dont think it will lose the brand recognition, but it will lose the "lie" that it is "Vintage" leaf from 1990 or 1992

of course this is all just details to RP. he probably worrying about blending another hundred blends that all taste the same.

oops. did i type that? my bad. too late. hit post.

jgibv

catfishbluezz:

Agree with that Steve, as the osok is one I love. I just hate not being able to get say super shots from viaje

Haven't had an OSOK yet, but I 100% agree about the super shots. Those are/were damn tasty little smokes. I haven't seen them at the local B&M in quite a while - (if I find some though, I'll let you know Dustin.)

Steve2010

Scrambler:

Steve2010:

. Case in point: Rocky Patel Vintage 90/92.
As popular as this lineup was a while back, it's hard to believe that they are using tobacco from the same crop. I'm probably wrong, but I personally believe that they're using different (more recent/modern) tobacco, but using the same name to sell cigars.

I believe they're pretty open with the fact that the wrapper on the 90 is 12 years old and the wrapper on the 92 is 10 years old, regardless of which year it was made in. The first year, 1990 and 1992 tobaccos were used, this year tobacco from 2000 and 2002 are being used.

Perdomo used up the entire 1991 crop, which is why they ended the ESV 91 line. They switched the blend up a bit using tobacco from 2002, hence the ESV 2002. Same product recognition, but without the lies.

jswaykos

To quote the topic creator: "If I knew FFPs were gonna be available for a while I would definitely pick a lot up down the line, rather they are limited and I can't find em." So if they were more available, you WOULDN'T buy them, bit since they're scarce, you (and many, many others, myself certainly included) buy when you can find them. I think there are two ways to go about getting sales. Flood the market, collect money, and create "new" blends to pump out. Gurkha, RP, etc. The other way - keep things limited, which DOES create demand/interest, and sell your inventory QUICKLY, but perhaps more in spurts. Liga Privada, some Fuente, Tatuaje, etc. Some places definitely take it too far. If EVERY release is limited, are any of them ACTUALLY limited? To me, this is the manufactured scarcity Steve referenced (Pete Johnson is certainly an offender, IMO). So... yeah. Limited releases sell QUICK. Mass produced stuff sells consistently. Two paths, same result. I admit that I like the collectability aspect of cigars, too. Love smoking something 'rare' or hard to find, and I DO get enjoyment out of 'the chase'. And there's also a time and a place in my life for the cheaper, regularly available yard 'gars/golf course smokes, too.

scarlin

jswaykos:

To quote the topic creator: "If I knew FFPs were gonna be available for a while I would definitely pick a lot up down the line, rather they are limited and I can't find em." So if they were more available, you WOULDN'T buy them, bit since they're scarce, you (and many, many others, myself certainly included) buy when you can find them. I think there are two ways to go about getting sales. Flood the market, collect money, and create "new" blends to pump out. Gurkha, RP, etc. The other way - keep things limited, which DOES create demand/interest, and sell your inventory QUICKLY, but perhaps more in spurts. Liga Privada, some Fuente, Tatuaje, etc. Some places definitely take it too far. If EVERY release is limited, are any of them ACTUALLY limited? To me, this is the manufactured scarcity Steve referenced (Pete Johnson is certainly an offender, IMO). So... yeah. Limited releases sell QUICK. Mass produced stuff sells consistently. Two paths, same result. I admit that I like the collectability aspect of cigars, too. Love smoking something 'rare' or hard to find, and I DO get enjoyment out of 'the chase'. And there's also a time and a place in my life for the cheaper, regularly available yard 'gars/golf course smokes, too.

By that quote I meant I would spend more money on them over a longer period of time rather than spend a lot at one time and break my wallet. Die hard fans of said cigar will drop a lot of money at once, while most people will slowly but surely drop money as not to keep your money supply low. In short: Non limited=more of my money.

Rob1110

It's simple: Place a big LIMITED EDITION tag on something and a high price tag and you'll have idiots like me and Squirrel chasing after it like a tree full of acorns. We'll empty our wallets because IF we really like it, we need to stash some away for a rainy day. Because when it's gone, it's gone. All marketing.

phobicsquirrel

Rob1110:

It's simple: Place a big LIMITED EDITION tag on something and a high price tag and you'll have idiots like me and Squirrel chasing after it like a tree full of acorns. We'll empty our wallets because IF we really like it, we need to stash some away for a rainy day. Because when it's gone, it's gone. All marketing.

lol, yeah very true. If I knew now about how much I'd like Rex's I would drop the cash down for several boxes however that shipped has sailed so now I will jump more quickly as you can always trade them away or sale them. It'a ll BS in my opinion.

Scrambler

kuzi16:

then they should take off the word "Vintage" so there is no longer this sentiment. it is not "vintage 1990" they can call it the "1990 series" and "1992 series"

i dont think it will lose the brand recognition, but it will lose the "lie" that it is "Vintage" leaf from 1990 or 1992

of course this is all just details to RP. he probably worrying about blending another hundred blends that all taste the same.

oops. did i type that? my bad. too late. hit post.

Since many people here have this same issue, obviously it's misleading, but I guess I never thought of it that way. I never paid any attention to the word "vintage" or associated it the way I would a wine (I just call it a RP 92, the word vintage doesn't even register). The published description has never been misleading to me, but I can see how the name alone could be.

I like your explanation of naturally-limited leaf and supply/demand. Cigars are made from a natural product that is heavily influenced by various elements. It's not an unlimited resource.

*Petey*

This is a great thread, with some really good conversation about the limeted stuff. some really good opinions in here.

So the industry seems to follow certain trends/fads every 5 or so years and I get the sense that the industry is just starting to trend away form the super thick rg and the strong for strength sake trend into the limited edition for marketing sake. Even though I'm not a LE guy, I'm kinda happy about the trend away from GIANT cigars. My guess is that they are doing the LE thing becuase they are sellign like hot cakes, but I'm sure in a handful of years just like every other cigar trend out there it'll fade away into something else thats new, where half of hte folks out there think its the best thing ever, and thats all they'll smoke, and the other half thinks its ridiculous. It just is what it is.

Specifically on the limited thing I don't get the drive to get new stuff just becuase their limited, and ignore most of it without any desire to get any, but then you stumble across those few gems out there in the LE world and you want to get more, but their gone before you even knew about em, and I just get frustrated. I just wish they'd run some LEs out there as trial runs, and if they work, then make more. I mean even Pete, who probably is at least 50% responsible for this, is re releasing some of his more popular ones (El Triunfador, Tat Blacks are regular line now, etc). I relaly appreciate that and hope that this is the trend that continues.

Side note, Kuzi's rant on RP cigars all tasting the same is still cracking me up, so un Kuzi like, and yet so on point.