Proof positive that unregulated capitalism is predatory and without morals.
Anecdotes aren't very good proofs. They can only disprove an absolute. These companies suck, no doubt, but to say all of capitalism is to blame is a bit of stretch.
Something that frustrates me about calls to regulate is they always seem reactionary and overblow the issue. One company does something immoral, and suddenly all companies are bending over backwards to re-jigger their processes. It would be like banning all cars because a few people drive recklessly. This is why punitive civil damages exist, to punish those that go beyond what is moral, whether their are laws against it or not.
The issue is, Capitalism works great, in an ideal world. But if we have an ideal world, Communism, Socialism, and heck, Facism are going to work too. So why do we stick with Capitalism? Because it reacts best to non ideal situations. It is flexible, and nimble. The thing with Capitalism that gives it trouble, is the fact it runs as a two way street. Companies make goods that are demanded while trying to get the most money they can, consumers consume goods that best fit their needs. In an ideal world, things like brand loyalty and fear of change wouldn't exist. Customers would all do their research and find what best fills their needs. When companies pull crap consumers don't like, those consumers would leave and destroy that companies ability to make money. In a perfect world, Capitalism regulates itself.
But, as we have said, we don't live in a perfect world. The example that jumps to mind is healthcare. In my area there are 2 main hospitals. I know from experience that an MRI visit to one costs ~$600 and the same services at the other costs ~$3000. In a perfect world, no one would buy the MRIs at $3000 because of competiton. Most people don't care, their insurance is going to pay for it. Most of the rest don't care because they just want to get better, not price shop their tests.
I will never argue that some regulation isn't needed. It is, and it helps define boundries that protect consumers as a whole from price fixing and other such activities that is hard for the system to self regulate. Same with safety regs. People are generally far less risk averse with their own health than they should be. But, the issue with any regulation is it favors the establishment. Those companies that already have the resources, capital, and logistics are far more capable to adjusting to regulations that those that are just starting up. By stifling new tech, it perpetuates the companies that were causing the issues in the first place.
So, what is my solution? Consumer education. Specifically, make high school, and heck, middle school, level economics classes designed to teach the concepts of being an educated consumer. It is very rare that I find the need to use my ability to solve polynomials in my daily life... but I make financial decisions everyday. These are the things that need to be added, things like logic, decision making, and financial literacy. Teach kids that APR and APY aren't the same thing, what opportunity cost is, and how to evalutate offers for greatest value. Also, teach them how to react to bad service, give them the tools to complain effectively, and instill in them the confidence to negotiate for better prices and services.
I guess my main point is, educate before you regulate. Give people the tools to make the system closer to ideal, then regulate if and where there are still needs. There is a big difference between protecting people from companies, and forcing companies to protect consumers from themselves.
Proof positive that unregulated capitalism is predatory and without morals.
Anecdotes aren't very good proofs. They can only disprove an absolute. These companies suck, no doubt, but to say all of capitalism is to blame is a bit of stretch.
Something that frustrates me about calls to regulate is they always seem reactionary and overblow the issue. One company does something immoral, and suddenly all companies are bending over backwards to re-jigger their processes. It would be like banning all cars because a few people drive recklessly. This is why punitive civil damages exist, to punish those that go beyond what is moral, whether their are laws against it or not.
The issue is, Capitalism works great, in an ideal world. But if we have an ideal world, Communism, Socialism, and heck, Facism are going to work too. So why do we stick with Capitalism? Because it reacts best to non ideal situations. It is flexible, and nimble. The thing with Capitalism that gives it trouble, is the fact it runs as a two way street. Companies make goods that are demanded while trying to get the most money they can, consumers consume goods that best fit their needs. In an ideal world, things like brand loyalty and fear of change wouldn't exist. Customers would all do their research and find what best fills their needs. When companies pull crap consumers don't like, those consumers would leave and destroy that companies ability to make money. In a perfect world, Capitalism regulates itself.
But, as we have said, we don't live in a perfect world. The example that jumps to mind is healthcare. In my area there are 2 main hospitals. I know from experience that an MRI visit to one costs ~$600 and the same services at the other costs ~$3000. In a perfect world, no one would buy the MRIs at $3000 because of competiton. Most people don't care, their insurance is going to pay for it. Most of the rest don't care because they just want to get better, not price shop their tests.
I will never argue that some regulation isn't needed. It is, and it helps define boundries that protect consumers as a whole from price fixing and other such activities that is hard for the system to self regulate. Same with safety regs. People are generally far less risk averse with their own health than they should be. But, the issue with any regulation is it favors the establishment. Those companies that already have the resources, capital, and logistics are far more capable to adjusting to regulations that those that are just starting up. By stifling new tech, it perpetuates the companies that were causing the issues in the first place.
So, what is my solution? Consumer education. Specifically, make high school, and heck, middle school, level economics classes designed to teach the concepts of being an educated consumer. It is very rare that I find the need to use my ability to solve polynomials in my daily life... but I make financial decisions everyday. These are the things that need to be added, things like logic, decision making, and financial literacy. Teach kids that APR and APY aren't the same thing, what opportunity cost is, and how to evalutate offers for greatest value. Also, teach them how to react to bad service, give them the tools to complain effectively, and instill in them the confidence to negotiate for better prices and services.
I guess my main point is, educate before you regulate. Give people the tools to make the system closer to ideal, then regulate if and where there are still needs. There is a big difference between protecting people from companies, and forcing companies to protect consumers from themselves.
300 very low wage workers incinerated for profit. There was a similar fire in NY City (I think) in 1911. The Shirtwaist factory fire. It changed everything. People demanded, and got, a wave of labor legislation that reformed the way business were allowed to operate in this country. The 8 hour day, a minimum wage, an end to child labor, worker safety legislation, etc., because unregulated capitalism is predatory.
The entire premise of globalism is unregulated capitalism -allowing businesses access to labor markets without labor regulations. Nearly all of the goods that are sold in this country from China are made under conditions that most US citizens would consider slavery - wages under $2 per day, workers living in factory dormitories (bunked 3 and 4 high) taking all meals on site, not being allowed to leave the factory, or to have visitors. Vietnam and India aren't much better.
Consumers don't want education, they want cheap goods. They don't care how or why the goods are cheap, they just want them cheap. So what if a slave made it. So what if some worker died so you can wear jeans that are sandblasted with silica so they look "cool". Who needs a minimum wage?
What consumers don't realize is that, unless these businesses are regulated, they, or their children and grandchildren will be competing for wages and living standards with the poorest of the poor, in countries that have never been concerned with having a decent standard of living for the vast majority of the people. That is the direction unregulated capitalism is taking US, and I do not want to go there.
What consumers don't realize is that, unless these businesses are regulated, they, or their children and grandchildren will be competing for wages and living standards with the poorest of the poor, in countries that have never been concerned with having a decent standard of living for the vast majority of the people. That is the direction unregulated capitalism is taking US, and I do not want to go there.
Just to cherry pick a quote... if consumers don't realize it, why not educate them? As I said, I am not against some regulation. Moderation is the key. I just don't trust the ability of a government to properly regulate anything in the face of an electorate poorly equipped to evaluate the options, and businesses and interest groups very well equipped to influence those making the regulations.
The Best Buy one didn't include the worst offense. They created their own internal (intranet) site that mimicked the public facing website. This was so when you walked in to price match or compare prices, they would pull up the fake website on their computers and fool you.
What consumers don't realize is that, unless these businesses are regulated, they, or their children and grandchildren will be competing for wages and living standards with the poorest of the poor, in countries that have never been concerned with having a decent standard of living for the vast majority of the people. That is the direction unregulated capitalism is taking US, and I do not want to go there.
Just to cherry pick a quote... if consumers don't realize it, why not educate them? As I said, I am not against some regulation. Moderation is the key. I just don't trust the ability of a government to properly regulate anything in the face of an electorate poorly equipped to evaluate the options, and businesses and interest groups very well equipped to influence those making the regulations.
This is exactly what scares the hell out of me. Our Congress used to be dominated by moderates in both parties - pragmatic men and women, who, when push came to shove, would compromise in the best interests of the country. Those days are gone. Business and wealthy individuals are driving the Bus now. When the "media" attempts to educate the public, there's a howl that would deafen and elephant from the right about the "liberal media" "shackling business". WalMart is a predator that is determined to drive the American median wage into the ground, and there isn't anyone in their way. Middle class wages have been stagnant for 30 years, largely due to this wave of de-regulation and trickle-down supply-side economics. The rising tide did not lift all boats, it swamped nearly 2/3's of 'em while lifting 10% to heights not seen before. The banking sector is the best example I can give - and still people just don't get it, because much of the media is still singing the praises and virtues of this Global, De-Regulated Market-Driven trickle-down economy, because the "Media" is just a bunch of corporations, and it's in their economic interests to sing those praises. It scares the hell out of me.
The Best Buy one didn't include the worst offense. They created their own internal (intranet) site that mimicked the public facing website. This was so when you walked in to price match or compare prices, they would pull up the fake website on their computers and fool you.
The Best Buy one didn't include the worst offense. They created their own internal (intranet) site that mimicked the public facing website. This was so when you walked in to price match or compare prices, they would pull up the fake website on their computers and fool you.
The Best Buy one didn't include the worst offense. They created their own internal (intranet) site that mimicked the public facing website. This was so when you walked in to price match or compare prices, they would pull up the fake website on their computers and fool you.
This is exactly what scares the hell out of me. Our Congress used to be dominated by moderates in both parties - pragmatic men and women, who, when push came to shove, would compromise in the best interests of the country. Those days are gone. Business and wealthy individuals are driving the Bus now. When the "media" attempts to educate the public, there's a howl that would deafen and elephant from the right about the "liberal media" "shackling business". WalMart is a predator that is determined to drive the American median wage into the ground, and there isn't anyone in their way. Middle class wages have been stagnant for 30 years, largely due to this wave of de-regulation and trickle-down supply-side economics. The rising tide did not lift all boats, it swamped nearly 2/3's of 'em while lifting 10% to heights not seen before. The banking sector is the best example I can give - and still people just don't get it, because much of the media is still singing the praises and virtues of this Global, De-Regulated Market-Driven trickle-down economy, because the "Media" is just a bunch of corporations, and it's in their economic interests to sing those praises. It scares the hell out of me.
And that is the crux. Everything is such a tangled web right now that navigating it without making things worse, or tying our public sector closer to private industry is damn hard. And, forgive me, JDH, for overgeneralizing, but for the most part both those calling for regulation and deregulation want immediate, knee-jerk style reactions. We need a slow, measured approach to change, to ensure things are actually made better, not worse.
The Best Buy one didn't include the worst offense. They created their own internal (intranet) site that mimicked the public facing website. This was so when you walked in to price match or compare prices, they would pull up the fake website on their computers and fool you.
This is exactly what scares the hell out of me. Our Congress used to be dominated by moderates in both parties - pragmatic men and women, who, when push came to shove, would compromise in the best interests of the country. Those days are gone. Business and wealthy individuals are driving the Bus now. When the "media" attempts to educate the public, there's a howl that would deafen and elephant from the right about the "liberal media" "shackling business". WalMart is a predator that is determined to drive the American median wage into the ground, and there isn't anyone in their way. Middle class wages have been stagnant for 30 years, largely due to this wave of de-regulation and trickle-down supply-side economics. The rising tide did not lift all boats, it swamped nearly 2/3's of 'em while lifting 10% to heights not seen before. The banking sector is the best example I can give - and still people just don't get it, because much of the media is still singing the praises and virtues of this Global, De-Regulated Market-Driven trickle-down economy, because the "Media" is just a bunch of corporations, and it's in their economic interests to sing those praises. It scares the hell out of me.
And that is the crux. Everything is such a tangled web right now that navigating it without making things worse, or tying our public sector closer to private industry is damn hard. And, forgive me, JDH, for overgeneralizing, but for the most part both those calling for regulation and deregulation want immediate, knee-jerk style reactions. We need a slow, measured approach to change, to ensure things are actually made better, not worse.
Or put me in charge. I am pretty awesome. :P
That is true, we DO need a slow, deliberative Congressional body that can contemplate, argue WITH RESPECT, and WITHOUT ACRIMONY, and without binding IDEOLOGY that requires automatic rejection and hatred of the other "side".
We don't have that now. All the moderates have been driven out of both parties, and the ones left are owned by somebody besides the voters they're supposed to reperesent, whether it's Grover Norquist, or the Sierra Club, or Rush and Hannity, or the NRA, or the NAACP, or Wall St. or the Unions, or the Koch boys, or the NARP, or the AMA, or Big Pharma, or Big Oil, or the Media, .... or China, hell everybody has their ear but We the People.
I don't know how to but Humpty Dumpty back together again, either.
The greatest deterrent to bad businesses are educated consumers. Unfortunately we live in a nation of ignorance for the most part who do stupid things and wait for the government to come rescue (protect) them.
Rain
Posts: 8,958 ✭✭✭
Comments
Something that frustrates me about calls to regulate is they always seem reactionary and overblow the issue. One company does something immoral, and suddenly all companies are bending over backwards to re-jigger their processes. It would be like banning all cars because a few people drive recklessly. This is why punitive civil damages exist, to punish those that go beyond what is moral, whether their are laws against it or not.
The issue is, Capitalism works great, in an ideal world. But if we have an ideal world, Communism, Socialism, and heck, Facism are going to work too. So why do we stick with Capitalism? Because it reacts best to non ideal situations. It is flexible, and nimble. The thing with Capitalism that gives it trouble, is the fact it runs as a two way street. Companies make goods that are demanded while trying to get the most money they can, consumers consume goods that best fit their needs. In an ideal world, things like brand loyalty and fear of change wouldn't exist. Customers would all do their research and find what best fills their needs. When companies pull crap consumers don't like, those consumers would leave and destroy that companies ability to make money. In a perfect world, Capitalism regulates itself.
But, as we have said, we don't live in a perfect world. The example that jumps to mind is healthcare. In my area there are 2 main hospitals. I know from experience that an MRI visit to one costs ~$600 and the same services at the other costs ~$3000. In a perfect world, no one would buy the MRIs at $3000 because of competiton. Most people don't care, their insurance is going to pay for it. Most of the rest don't care because they just want to get better, not price shop their tests.
I will never argue that some regulation isn't needed. It is, and it helps define boundries that protect consumers as a whole from price fixing and other such activities that is hard for the system to self regulate. Same with safety regs. People are generally far less risk averse with their own health than they should be. But, the issue with any regulation is it favors the establishment. Those companies that already have the resources, capital, and logistics are far more capable to adjusting to regulations that those that are just starting up. By stifling new tech, it perpetuates the companies that were causing the issues in the first place.
So, what is my solution? Consumer education. Specifically, make high school, and heck, middle school, level economics classes designed to teach the concepts of being an educated consumer. It is very rare that I find the need to use my ability to solve polynomials in my daily life... but I make financial decisions everyday. These are the things that need to be added, things like logic, decision making, and financial literacy. Teach kids that APR and APY aren't the same thing, what opportunity cost is, and how to evalutate offers for greatest value. Also, teach them how to react to bad service, give them the tools to complain effectively, and instill in them the confidence to negotiate for better prices and services.
I guess my main point is, educate before you regulate. Give people the tools to make the system closer to ideal, then regulate if and where there are still needs. There is a big difference between protecting people from companies, and forcing companies to protect consumers from themselves.
300 very low wage workers incinerated for profit. There was a similar fire in NY City (I think) in 1911. The Shirtwaist factory fire. It changed everything. People demanded, and got, a wave of labor legislation that reformed the way business were allowed to operate in this country. The 8 hour day, a minimum wage, an end to child labor, worker safety legislation, etc., because unregulated capitalism is predatory.
The entire premise of globalism is unregulated capitalism -allowing businesses access to labor markets without labor regulations. Nearly all of the goods that are sold in this country from China are made under conditions that most US citizens would consider slavery - wages under $2 per day, workers living in factory dormitories (bunked 3 and 4 high) taking all meals on site, not being allowed to leave the factory, or to have visitors. Vietnam and India aren't much better.
Consumers don't want education, they want cheap goods. They don't care how or why the goods are cheap, they just want them cheap. So what if a slave made it. So what if some worker died so you can wear jeans that are sandblasted with silica so they look "cool". Who needs a minimum wage?
What consumers don't realize is that, unless these businesses are regulated, they, or their children and grandchildren will be competing for wages and living standards with the poorest of the poor, in countries that have never been concerned with having a decent standard of living for the vast majority of the people. That is the direction unregulated capitalism is taking US, and I do not want to go there.
And that is the crux. Everything is such a tangled web right now that navigating it without making things worse, or tying our public sector closer to private industry is damn hard. And, forgive me, JDH, for overgeneralizing, but for the most part both those calling for regulation and deregulation want immediate, knee-jerk style reactions. We need a slow, measured approach to change, to ensure things are actually made better, not worse.
Or put me in charge. I am pretty awesome. :P
We don't have that now. All the moderates have been driven out of both parties, and the ones left are owned by somebody besides the voters they're supposed to reperesent, whether it's Grover Norquist, or the Sierra Club, or Rush and Hannity, or the NRA, or the NAACP, or Wall St. or the Unions, or the Koch boys, or the NARP, or the AMA, or Big Pharma, or Big Oil, or the Media, .... or China, hell everybody has their ear but We the People.
I don't know how to but Humpty Dumpty back together again, either.
Henry Ford
"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it. "