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Hall of Fame Vote

VulchorVulchor Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
I am no fan of the steroid era...I think its a dark spot on the game. Some guys should never get in because of it, because their entire career was based around it (looking at you McGwire and Sosa). THAT SAID, sorry Baseball Writers of America, you knew this was going on at the time...we all did. "Us fans" didnt have the voice to speak out...you did. You chose not to however because the great ratings and big fly's were padding your pockets. But now that its time to vote these guys in...the answer is no and you all are the voice of reason and fairness....bull$hit

Lets first say that Craig Biggio not getting in is simply stupid. He has the numbers, the ethic, the versatility, and the love of the game and again THE NUMBERS. He doesnt have a big name and they hate to vote in first ballot guys....moronic and unforgiveable. Mike Piazza getting the few votes he did is just as much a travesty. His defense was VERY suspect, but his hitting was amazing and he obviously caught a good enough game...just check the postseason for teams he was on. He re-revolutionzed the position and is a "clean guy" in a "dirty era"---shameful

While we're at it...sorry, Im saying yes to Bonds and Clemens. Both were HOF's before steriods were being used (we assume) and while it doesnt excuse their behavior, the steriods dont give you control of a 95mph fastball or the best hand eye coodination since Tony Gwynn or Ted Williams either. Sosa, McGwire, Shilling---Im ok with you not being in. Your either total steriod era, of VERY good players. VERY GOOD PLAYERS should NOT be in the HOF. However, a lot of this doesnt really matter anymore does it? Its all up to the writers...just like it was to expose the lies when they happened.

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    MartelMartel Posts: 3,306 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree with a lot of what you said, and while I don't think it's the same thing, you hear the Pete Rose argument against Bonds and Clements a lot. I don't think that's a fair comparison, but I understand where it's coming from. I'm not sure how I feel about Bonds and Clemens in the HOF, but I think it's the least the writers can do to say "not first ballot". The question is, will they be allowed in on later ballots.

    I'm fine with Biggio not getting in first ballot; he will get in.

    Not sure how I feel about Piazza. I would be tempted to put him in the "Very Good Player" category. Maybe at the top of that list. So, borderline HOFer.
    Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

    I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot.  I will smoke anything, though.
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    VulchorVulchor Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
    Martel:
    I agree with a lot of what you said, and while I don't think it's the same thing, you hear the Pete Rose argument against Bonds and Clements a lot. I don't think that's a fair comparison, but I understand where it's coming from. I'm not sure how I feel about Bonds and Clemens in the HOF, but I think it's the least the writers can do to say "not first ballot". The question is, will they be allowed in on later ballots.

    I'm fine with Biggio not getting in first ballot; he will get in.

    Not sure how I feel about Piazza. I would be tempted to put him in the "Very Good Player" category. Maybe at the top of that list. So, borderline HOFer.
    Biggio I agree will get in. Piazza I consider the fact the numbers with the wear and tear on the body from catching as well. Lifetime .308 hitter, 12 time all star, never struck out 100 times in a season (only once more than 90), High BA and HR totals than Jim Rice in the same number of seasons, and a couple hundred less strike outs in about 500 less at bats. Sorry to hate on Jim Rice...he's just one I dont feel should be in, lol.
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    brianetz1brianetz1 Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭
    Jayson Stark said it best.

    IS the HOF a Shrine or a Museum?

    If it is a shrine then we need to get their accomplishments out of the HOF. Get their shoes, get their bats, get their balls, get their gloves, get their photos, get everything out of there because steroids tainted that shrine. They need to retroactively go back and vacate records and then vacate wins for their teams. They need to go back and get every player out of there that did something immoral.

    If it is a Museum, then put them in. You can't have a museum that is telling the story of major league baseball and just skips over a tumultuous period in its history. It would be like a history museum jsut skipping our civil war and leaving out how this country treated african americans. Or a german history museum leaving out the holocaust and WWII.

    These players (including McGwire and Sosa) were some of the greatest players to play the game when they played it. If they never officially failed a steroids test, (even if they admitted to using) you put them in there but make 100% sure that their plaques state what is known about their abuse. (i.e. McGwire admitted it, Sosa's career arc and how he was on the mitchell report, Bonds perjury trial, clemens trial...etc, etc)

    Everyone needs to remember that there was no official on the books collectively bargained for banned substance policy with testing. I can't fault them for doing what they did before there was official rules and testing. Anyone who was caught on a drug test I am all for keeping them out.
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    JDHJDH Posts: 2,107
    I don't have a problem with any of the "Steroid Era" players mentioned being in the Hall of Fame, but they should have a notation indicating that their use of these substances aided their performance. If known members of the KKK, and other ethcally challenged players can be admitted into the HOF, then there's no reason not to let these guys in. But Pete Rose should be allowed in before any of the steroid users. Just my 2 cents.
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    mmccartneydcmmccartneydc Posts: 3,407 ✭✭✭
    JDH:
    I don't have a problem with any of the "Steroid Era" players mentioned being in the Hall of Fame, but they should have a notation indicating that their use of these substances aided their performance. If known members of the KKK, and other ethcally challenged players can be admitted into the HOF, then there's no reason not to let these guys in. But Pete Rose should be allowed in before any of the steroid users. Just my 2 cents.
    I don't care one thing about baseball and wouldn't care if it was never shown on TV again, however, I totally agree with the Pete Rose statement. The fact that these "fakes" are being even considered before him is sad. Oh well.......
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    fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,023 ✭✭
    Last time I checked the use of steroids by those players was not against the rules. The real story here is that MLB knew and chose to do nothing and now these players are being punished for it. I think the use of steroids by those who did/do it sucks and is cheating but I consider the HOF a sham anyway after they banned Pete for life. He epitomizes baseball and was punished for betting his team would win.
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    0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    fla-gypsy:
    Last time I checked the use of steroids by those players was not against the rules. The real story here is that MLB knew and chose to do nothing and now these players are being punished for it. I think the use of steroids by those who did/do it sucks and is cheating but I consider the HOF a sham anyway after they banned Pete for life. He epitomizes baseball and was punished for betting his team would win.
    Steroid use or Performance Enhancing Drugs have been against the rules since 2006.
    While they weren't banned from MLB before that, they were also not allowed.
    But there was nothing until 2006 that specifically banned PEDs and a host of other drugs.

    That being said, Biggio should make it in with in the next few years, but Mattingly and Morris should have made it in this year.

    The baseball writers are a bunch of babies who want everything there way.
    Votes into the hall should be by those people in the organization or retired people of the organization.
    Meaning umpires, players, managers, coaches and trainers.
    Most other industries use members of the industry and historians to vote.

    As for Pete Rose, I find it ironic that people who are convicted of having and using illegal drugs are still eligible, yet Rose remains ineligible.
    It sends a great message to kids. It's ok to take drugs, but don't get caught betting.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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    VulchorVulchor Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
    Agree totally about the writers....what a joke.
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    greg2648greg2648 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭
    I watched "Charlie Hustle" play when I was a youngster. It is a travesty that he is not in the HOF. Right now the HOF has inductees that were drug users and wifebeaters and everything in between. Damn shame......
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    catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭
    greg2648:
    I watched "Charlie Hustle" play when I was a youngster. It is a travesty that he is not in the HOF. Right now the HOF has inductees that were drug users and wifebeaters and everything in between. Damn shame......
    Yeah dude.... That always pisses me off
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    KriegKrieg Posts: 5,188 ✭✭✭
    Being an ATL fan, I'm quite disappointed that Dale Murphy didn't get in. This was his last shot I believe.

    "Long ashes my friends."

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    0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Krieg:
    Being an ATL fan, I'm quite disappointed that Dale Murphy didn't get in. This was his last shot I believe.
    Agreed.
    Again, it's all about the writers and their skewed views.
    Hopefully, the veteran's committee will correct that.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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    RainRain Posts: 8,958 ✭✭✭
    If they don't get in because of roids, then why is there not an * next to all their records and championships? Can't have it both ways. Either you ignore the 90s and act like it did not happen, or you count it like you do the 70s/80s cocaine and amphetamines usage.
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    MVW67MVW67 Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭✭
    Pete Rose should be!!
    Life is too short, live it like no tomorrow...
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    0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MVW67:
    Pete Rose should be!!
    Anyone who grew up in the 60s & 70s and had to copy the Pete Rose face first slide, would agree.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
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