NYPD - not their duty to protect and serve

jgibv

Wow.....
Be careful next time you're in NYC, looks like the NYPD no longer has a duty to protect citizens.....

"[Joe Lozito] says he put his life on the line to stop a killer — and claims cops sat back and watched.
But city lawyers are arguing that the police had no legal duty to protect Joseph Lozito, the Long Island dad stabbed seven times trying to subdue madman Maksim Gelman — a courtroom maneuver the subway hero calls “disgraceful.”
A judge is currently deciding whether Lozito, who sued the city last year for failing to prevent the attack, will get his day in court."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKVSNjlSp0

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/to_serve_but_not_protect_Qr3ume5gEhMhtg8LvHgzAI
http://gothamist.com/2013/01/27/city_argues_nypd_had_no_special_dut.php
http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/01/if-you-are-getting-stabbed-the-police-don/

The_Kid

jgibv:

Wow.....
Be careful next time you're in NYC, looks like the NYPD no longer has a duty to protect citizens.....

"[Joe Lozito] says he put his life on the line to stop a killer — and claims cops sat back and watched.
But city lawyers are arguing that the police had no legal duty to protect Joseph Lozito, the Long Island dad stabbed seven times trying to subdue madman Maksim Gelman — a courtroom maneuver the subway hero calls “disgraceful.”
A judge is currently deciding whether Lozito, who sued the city last year for failing to prevent the attack, will get his day in court."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKVSNjlSp0

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/to_serve_but_not_protect_Qr3ume5gEhMhtg8LvHgzAI
http://gothamist.com/2013/01/27/city_argues_nypd_had_no_special_dut.php
http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2013/01/if-you-are-getting-stabbed-the-police-don/

The NYCPD is to busy racial profiling and performing illegal search and siezures to be worried about something as trivial as a stabbing.. I hope he wins big and that the cops who stood by and did nothing are fired.

jthanatos

Unfortunately, there is precedent to claim no duty to protect. Reading the stories make the officer on the train sound rather scummy, but then again heroes and outrage at the establishment sells papers, and I can't find anything from third party witnesses. Hopefully more will be made known.

JDH

jthanatos:

Unfortunately, there is precedent to claim no duty to protect. Reading the stories make the officer on the train sound rather scummy, but then again heroes and outrage at the establishment sells papers, and I can't find anything from third party witnesses. Hopefully more will be made known.

Right. It's usually best to reserve judgement until the facts are in.

jgibv

jthanatos:

Unfortunately, there is precedent to claim no duty to protect. Reading the stories make the officer on the train sound rather scummy, but then again heroes and outrage at the establishment sells papers, and I can't find anything from third party witnesses. Hopefully more will be made known.

WTF!! Was not aware of that but certainly doesn't sit we'll with me. I guess from a legal standpoint I kind of get, but still it just doesn't *feel* right,

And yes if Joe's story is true I would hope the cops are reprimanded....,if the cops were on the other side of the door, that's just not right of them to not help..

jthanatos

jgibv:

jthanatos:

Unfortunately, there is precedent to claim no duty to protect. Reading the stories make the officer on the train sound rather scummy, but then again heroes and outrage at the establishment sells papers, and I can't find anything from third party witnesses. Hopefully more will be made known.

WTF!! Was not aware of that but certainly doesn't sit we'll with me. I guess from a legal standpoint I kind of get, but still it just doesn't *feel* right,

And yes if Joe's story is true I would hope the cops are reprimanded....,if the cops were on the other side of the door, that's just not right of them to not help..

I agree it doesn't feel right at all, but on the other hand it may have been a needed firebreak against our seemingly litigious culture. Could you imagine the doors opened to suit if the police were required to protect every citizen? Or at least how much court time would be wasted testing if the police did enough this time or that time? Bah it's just silly the whole way around.

jgkamin

I know Joe, he is a great guy and obviously a hero. Imagine taking your daily commute to work and not knowing the backstory of a deranged murderer on the loose and running into him in such a manner. Minding your own business and having this nut in front of you with a knife and telling you that you're going to die, all the while 2 armed cops stand 2 feet away.

jgibv

jthanatos:

jgibv:

jthanatos:

Unfortunately, there is precedent to claim no duty to protect. Reading the stories make the officer on the train sound rather scummy, but then again heroes and outrage at the establishment sells papers, and I can't find anything from third party witnesses. Hopefully more will be made known.

WTF!! Was not aware of that but certainly doesn't sit we'll with me. I guess from a legal standpoint I kind of get, but still it just doesn't *feel* right,

And yes if Joe's story is true I would hope the cops are reprimanded....,if the cops were on the other side of the door, that's just not right of them to not help..

I agree it doesn't feel right at all, but on the other hand it may have been a needed firebreak against our seemingly litigious culture. Could you imagine the doors opened to suit if the police were required to protect every citizen? Or at least how much court time would be wasted testing if the police did enough this time or that time? Bah it's just silly the whole way around.

Yeah I suppose so --- and there's enough people out there who would try some $hit like that...for example their home gets robbed then they try to sue the police for not protecting them.
It's sad/stupid/silly but yep, I could 100% see that happening.

But if the cops are alerted to a crime and are in very close proximity to it but fail to act ... like they (allegedly) were in this situation ... and they did nothing to help then, at least IMO, there should be some repercussions.

But I don't know that would play out in the courts ....

JDH

jgibv:

jthanatos:

jgibv:

jthanatos:

Unfortunately, there is precedent to claim no duty to protect. Reading the stories make the officer on the train sound rather scummy, but then again heroes and outrage at the establishment sells papers, and I can't find anything from third party witnesses. Hopefully more will be made known.

WTF!! Was not aware of that but certainly doesn't sit we'll with me. I guess from a legal standpoint I kind of get, but still it just doesn't *feel* right,

And yes if Joe's story is true I would hope the cops are reprimanded....,if the cops were on the other side of the door, that's just not right of them to not help..

I agree it doesn't feel right at all, but on the other hand it may have been a needed firebreak against our seemingly litigious culture. Could you imagine the doors opened to suit if the police were required to protect every citizen? Or at least how much court time would be wasted testing if the police did enough this time or that time? Bah it's just silly the whole way around.

Yeah I suppose so --- and there's enough people out there who would try some $hit like that...for example their home gets robbed then they try to sue the police for not protecting them.
It's sad/stupid/silly but yep, I could 100% see that happening.

But if the cops are alerted to a crime and are in very close proximity to it but fail to act ... like they (allegedly) were in this situation ... and they did nothing to help then, at least IMO, there should be some repercussions.

But I don't know that would play out in the courts ....

Allegedly. That's the key. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. One thing I've learned is that J.Q. Public will say anything, true or not. Cops aren't always right, but neither is the public. I'd want to know all the facts before condemning anyone.

jgkamin

And let's not forget there was an APB out for this guy, every badge in NY and surrounding areas were looking for him for him as he was on a killing spree. That they had him right under their nose and stayed back behind the door watching him viciously attack J.Q. Public is just unbelievable.

jthanatos

JGKAMIN:

And let's not forget there was an APB out for this guy, every badge in NY and surrounding areas were looking for him for him as he was on a killing spree. That they had him right under their nose and stayed back behind the door watching him viciously attack J.Q. Public is just unbelievable.

And if that is the case, these officers should be heavily punished either legally, internally, or both. However, I just find it odd A) it took almost a year for him to complain about the police, B)I can't find any statements about lack of police action by other witnesses, whether it was the guy who went to warn the transit cops, or the person that tended to Lozito's wounds, and C)what he says now doesn't line up with his previous interviews, such as the one here.

That being said, you say his a good guy, and I am inclined to believe you. I also agree it is really stupid the cops on the train didn't recognize a guy with an APB out on him, but hey, sometimes people make mistakes. For all I know, the police may have responded as soon as they noticed the attack, but for Mr. Lozito, that would seem like forever... time doesn't fly when you are getting stabbed in the face. I just think there is much more to come out before this is decided.

jgkamin

So how else would you explain a couple of officers watching him being viciously attacked and not coming to his aid? Thety knew who and what he was, but they calimed to have believced he had a gun, which is no alibi for watching him wield a knife on an innocent bystander for so long and only came out once he had him subded. You see the wounds to this guy, do you see anything on the officer? How can you explain that if he was doing his job? Oh thats right, even the NYPD and their attorneys say that it wasn't their duty at the time. "city attorneys now are trying to have the case thrown out in court, saying Lozito had no reason to expect the officers would step in. "When you have a rapidly unfolding crime being committed, the police, their responsibility is effectively to act reasonably and nothing more," said Andrew Celli, Tort law expert." A) Litigation takes time, and obviously part of the complaint came from waiting to see how testimoney and things played out. I can't find any eyewitnesses praising the police for their efforts and giving a blow-by-blow account. C) His story is the same.

JDH

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/remorseless-maksim-gelman-200-years-prison-killing-4-brooklyn-article-1.1008195

According to the NY Daily News:

"...Cops were hot on Gelman’s trail when he stabbed straphanger Joseph Lozito, 41, a day later on a Manhattan subway train.

Lozito, a martial arts expert, took Gelman down with a leg sweep before cops pounced on him.

Gelman pleaded guilty to attacking Lozito on Wednesday during a brief hearing in Manhattan. He faces 25 years in prison for that crime.

“Being drawn and quartered would be a more appropriate punishment,” Lozito told The Daily News.

oyaniv@nydailynews.com

phobicsquirrel

Police in general are out of control. From the crap the police pulled during the OWS protests nothing surprises me.

jgibv

JGKAMIN:

I know Joe, he is a great guy and obviously a hero. Imagine taking your daily commute to work and not knowing the backstory of a deranged murderer on the loose and running into him in such a manner. Minding your own business and having this nut in front of you with a knife and telling you that you're going to die, all the while 2 armed cops stand 2 feet away.

Very cool that you know him. Could not imagine being in his situation, and can't believe he was able to fight off that crazed maniac, subdue him and live to tell about it.....Joe is certainly a hero.
And it seems like he's recovering well, yes?

I'd be indescribably mad/upset/angry etc. at the cops who were nearby, but failed to act in this situation. Unimaginable.

webmost

Amazing in that it's not amazing.