More abortion bills ....

phobicsquirrel

This one is by far too far! Though I'm sure some who are all about fetus's will love it. I mean it's okay to deny a woman her own rights but guns hey buddy get off my lawn!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/16/us/north-dakota-approves-bill-to-ban-abortions-after-heartbeat-is-found.html?_r=1&

I thought we needed jobs in this country? I mean all the GOP is doing is trying to stop woman rights and keep gays from marrying one another. The huge amount of time and money being spend on woman rights issues is astounding. I think we have better things to do as a country than roll back to the good 'o days when woman were 2nd class citizens! What's next a push to get rid of civil rights and bring back segregation? ... oh wait some are.

pelirrojo

Man, you have no idea how embarassed I am right now to be from Arkansas... Usually AR is drug through the mud for various stereotypes and bad news stories, but the legislature there now is making me glad that I moved.

beatnic

What definition of conception don't you understand? If your heart is so disturbed by the news of a law protecting the rights of an unborn child, then surely this news will cheer you up.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/03/201331664754454580.html

phobicsquirrel

beatnic:

What definition of conception don't you understand? If your heart is so disturbed by the news of a law protecting the rights of an unborn child, then surely this news will cheer you up.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/03/201331664754454580.html

I just don't understand your rational? I mean you don't think govt should give everyone the chance for health care, rather just let big biz do what they will and those who can't afford it can die or go bankrupt, you don't want social services, don't want gun restrictions from the govt, don't want cap and trade or any type of environmental controls that limit or get rid of harmful pollution .... But

You are okay with govt telling a woman what they can and cannot do with their bodies, get probed and prodded, basically just vessels for some guy's *** then poop out a kid, govt sending people to other countries in war (even if it's a lie and has no merit on our own safety), it's fine for the govt to spend massive amounts of money on MIC, but let's cut our own economic goals and services. ....

So govt is okay to be big ... sometimes however at other times it is not? Some how that seems whacked to me. I mean it's not okay for govt to have a standard set up gun laws or cut the MIC but it's okay for the govt to tell my wife she has to carry a baby even if she doesn't want too? Or a young lady or who ever, a WOMAN. Now even if they are raped!!!!! I get this all the time from the "anti choice" crowd or "pro life" crowd, you are all okay with going to war, letting sick people die, and even gutting services for the poor to take care of kids, but when it comes to a fetus it's all important and sacred. Just like the typical GOP crowd in Washington, all about support the troops when it suits them, but they crap on them the rest of the time by cutting benefits, not paying for good gear, cutting VA funding, and plain sending them into war. Makes no sense!

phobicsquirrel

Oh and btw I do not like abortions, however it is not my choice, it is a woman's choice. Maybe there should be laws to kill sperm in males and only certain types of people should be able to have kids. That would fix a lot of the problems and hell, maybe even help our culture. And abortions would be a lot lower!

beatnic

phobicsquirrel:

Oh and btw I do not like abortions, however it is not my choice, it is a woman's choice. Maybe there should be laws to kill sperm in males and only certain types of people should be able to have kids. That would fix a lot of the problems and hell, maybe even help our culture. And abortions would be a lot lower!

Maybe we can teach these these women some morals, and and to make right choices, and the sanctity of life. Oops, that just may spill over into religious concepts. Can't be having that.

phobicsquirrel

Morality has nothing to do with religion. In fact religion is the cause of most violence. So in theory if there was no religion then there would be less violence. George Carlin did many skits on this very subject. More religious people are fine with taking the right from a woman but refuse to listen to science and respect a woman. Instead they like to think of a woman as a vessel. If a religious woman wants to not have an abortion then fine, that's their choice, but there is no reason to force one to have one or not to have one. So I guess I am more "moral" than the religious types. People twist religion to fit their needs. History is filled with that and death and torture is used more often than not due to it. If anything religion is a curse on humanity.

beatnic

The Church of George Carlin, where morality is a choice. Talk about twisting religion.

Vulchor

phobicsquirrel:

beatnic:

What definition of conception don't you understand? If your heart is so disturbed by the news of a law protecting the rights of an unborn child, then surely this news will cheer you up.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/03/201331664754454580.html

I just don't understand your rational? I mean you don't think govt should give everyone the chance for health care, rather just let big biz do what they will and those who can't afford it can die or go bankrupt, you don't want social services, don't want gun restrictions from the govt, don't want cap and trade or any type of environmental controls that limit or get rid of harmful pollution .... But

You are okay with govt telling a woman what they can and cannot do with their bodies, get probed and prodded, basically just vessels for some guy's *** then poop out a kid, govt sending people to other countries in war (even if it's a lie and has no merit on our own safety), it's fine for the govt to spend massive amounts of money on MIC, but let's cut our own economic goals and services. ....

So govt is okay to be big ... sometimes however at other times it is not? Some how that seems whacked to me. I mean it's not okay for govt to have a standard set up gun laws or cut the MIC but it's okay for the govt to tell my wife she has to carry a baby even if she doesn't want too? Or a young lady or who ever, a WOMAN. Now even if they are raped!!!!! I get this all the time from the "anti choice" crowd or "pro life" crowd, you are all okay with going to war, letting sick people die, and even gutting services for the poor to take care of kids, but when it comes to a fetus it's all important and sacred. Just like the typical GOP crowd in Washington, all about support the troops when it suits them, but they crap on them the rest of the time by cutting benefits, not paying for good gear, cutting VA funding, and plain sending them into war. Makes no sense!

Because that crowd are bi-polar, religous, control freak, homophobic, anti-science, anti woman, pro ME ME ME dunderheads for the most part. If not all of these things...most of them. You can substitute a lot of other "name calling" as they will categorize it, but they make themselves such easy targets.

phobicsquirrel

beatnic:

The Church of George Carlin, where morality is a choice. Talk about twisting religion.

I wouldn't say a chruch, but GC made a lot of good points about religion. As does Bill Maher. I be you think I just like to bash religion, but really I don't mean to bash or belittle anyone's faith but there is some BS in it and usually not because of the core of said faith, but when people bend it to their own desires. My wife and I fight about this stuff all the time. She is a pastor.

clearlysuspect

OH yes. The GOP. Definitely cares about your health and safety right up until you're born. Then you're on your own! First 9, months, we love and care about you! After than, guess you should have been born to someone who could feed and provide health care for you.

beatnic

You guys are all over the place. My position on abortion has nothing to do with GOP or politics, or left and right. It comes from my soul. We shouldn't be killing the least among us.

Vulchor

Ive posted this before and I will again here. If the right is so economically concerned, as we know they are-----I maintain they should approve of abortion, even encourage it. If someone is having an abortion is likely they do not want the child and/or cannot afford to raise it. Forcing them to do so will only breed resentment toward that child and further turmoil likely resulting in welfare, medicaid, food stamps, and the like. In turn, to eliminate these most undesriable "hand outs" to the "dredges of society" I dont understand why the GOP doesnt advocate having as few spawn from this segment of society as possible.

ehehat

I know I'm new to this side of the boards but I just cant keep quiet on this one. I will never understand how someone can base the value of human life on age and/or distance from the birth canal. Be honest; if you read a story about a mother pulling her hours-old baby apart at the limbs you'd be absolutely outraged...and you should be, but because that baby is still in the mother it somehow magically becomes acceptable? And the typical argument for making this practice ok is money? Now who is the heartless one? I dont get it.

beatnic

ehehat:

I know I'm new to this side of the boards but I just cant keep quiet on this one. I will never understand how someone can base the value of human life on age and/or distance from the birth canal. Be honest; if you read a story about a mother pulling her hours-old baby apart at the limbs you'd be absolutely outraged...and you should be, but because that baby is still in the mother it somehow magically becomes acceptable? And the typical argument for making this practice ok is money? Now who is the heartless one? I dont get it.

Welcome to our forum!. It is diverse. We somehow have this discussion without too much acrimony. Perhaps it is the cigars that keep us together. Be prepared! There are those that dis agree with you.
peace brother!

Martel

ehehat:

I know I'm new to this side of the boards but I just cant keep quiet on this one. I will never understand how someone can base the value of human life on age and/or distance from the birth canal. Be honest; if you read a story about a mother pulling her hours-old baby apart at the limbs you'd be absolutely outraged...and you should be, but because that baby is still in the mother it somehow magically becomes acceptable? And the typical argument for making this practice ok is money? Now who is the heartless one? I dont get it.

I rarely make posts on the political threads, either. I don't think the previous comment was about money so much as it was an attempt to sterotype the political right as hypocritical when it comes to a stance on fiscal policy except in matters such as this.

At any rate, I think this issue is to polemic for most people to discuss it rationally. Look, I believe in the sanctity of life. I know some people disagree with me on when life begins. I don't for a minute believe they are "anti-life" even though those who usually share my persuasion are "pro-life". I also don't think most "pro-lifers" are "anti-choice" in the broad brushstrokes that these debates paint them. I do think no matter what, children are suffering-those who are aborted, and those who cannot be properly cared for by parents after birth. Yes, there are larger forces at work here, more complex issues to be solved in one sense. But I will say that I agree that many "pro-life" advocates hold some inconsistent positions if they extend their advocacy beyond this single issue.

webmost

This problem has no solution because both sides are right and both sides are wrong. Yes, abortion murders, and, yes women need the right to it. No, those who object to infanticide are not retarded bible beating misogynists, and, no, you can't make it stop by passing a law..

Nearly all of us here are men. In which case we should just shut up and leave this issue to girls and their mothers. We will never have to face the stark desperate choices which they do, so it's none of our damned business.

Amos_Umwhat

beatnic:

You guys are all over the place. My position on abortion has nothing to do with GOP or politics, or left and right. It comes from my soul. We shouldn't be killing the least among us.

I have to say, it's as simple as this, for me.

I have to add, IF these unborn children are ONLY the womens "choice", why do men have to pay child support? Men have NO children, from that point of view.

Real men have children, and raise them, and work hard to feed them, clothe them, and teach them how to be real live self-sufficient adults by the age of no later than 21. If they're still on the t i t after 21 yrs, someone, or some ones, (both parents) isn't doing their job.

kuzi16

phobicsquirrel:

You are okay with govt telling a woman what they can and cannot do with their bodies...

i think the thought of the anti abortion crowd is that once a baby is conceived, it is no longer just the woman's body. there is another human being involved.

ive said many times in the past that this is a very grey area for me. i have a hard time defining when life begins.
pro-abortion people do have a good point that women have rights and should be aloud to use them. but they also seem to think that a baby is just a "sack of cells" instead of being on the road to birth. its a very selfish point of view. never thinking of the baby.

iduno. i always find this topic interesting to discuss. unfortunately i feel that too many people take it too militantly especially because the definition for when life begins has eluded medical science and religions. it has been debated and yet never agreed on. humans dont know when specifically life begins. its a very tricky subject.

Vulchor

ehehat:

I know I'm new to this side of the boards but I just cant keep quiet on this one. I will never understand how someone can base the value of human life on age and/or distance from the birth canal. Be honest; if you read a story about a mother pulling her hours-old baby apart at the limbs you'd be absolutely outraged...and you should be, but because that baby is still in the mother it somehow magically becomes acceptable? And the typical argument for making this practice ok is money? Now who is the heartless one? I dont get it.

For the record-----and I hate going on that-----I am prolife other than cases of incest, health of mother, ect. HOWEVER, as a male I dont feel comfortable supporting legislation about a woman's body and her choice. If I was to have sex, mate, procreate, whatever with a woman I would want to know she wants a child if that were to happen. I will not chastise people who support the right to choose, I simply feel they are generally misguided, but I also feel this is a non issue in politics as the Supreme Court has ruled on it so to continue to argue it seems futile and fruitless.

kuzi16

Vulchor:

I also feel this is a non issue in politics as the Supreme Court has ruled on it so to continue to argue it seems futile and fruitless.

yes. i agree here. and nothing has really changed since that ruling to make it need another judgement.

fla-gypsy

I don't like killing, period. I know there are times when it is called for (self protection, national survival, abhorrent life taking behavior). In my (insert insult here, Vulch) faith based understanding, human life is sacred. Are there complicated situations? You bet there are, is killing innocent human life the answer, no it is not. I will admit I do not have the answers to the tough questions, I can only do what I think is right in my own soul. Whether it is legal or not it can never make it right.

Vulchor

Fair enough Gypsy-----however while it may not be "right" to you in your soul or in your belief system....that does not make it inherently "wrong" and certainly not illegal by the rule of this nations law which we are all expected to abide by and which governs us. Which to me means, you can find it as distasteful as you want, but you do not have the right to base law on it.

beatnic

Vulchor:

Fair enough Gypsy-----however while it may not be "right" to you in your soul or in your belief system....that does not make it inherently "wrong" and certainly not illegal by the rule of this nations law which we are all expected to abide by and which governs us. Which to me means, you can find it as distasteful as you want, but you do not have the right to base law on it.

Laws change all the time Vulchor. Cross state lines, go to another country. Or just wait a while. Laws are made by man, a very fallible creature. A human life, on the other hand,.......... .

Vulchor

very fallible creatures as well