South Korea

Rhamlin

Things aren't looking very good.God I pray this doesn't escalate.

Rail_Jockey

i think this is going to get bad real bad.....this is littleman syndrom to the 10th power. i say if or when things go south, and we have to get involved we need to get things overwith as quickly as possible. I too pray this little nut job understands the reprecussions of his actions. i don't want to see another war.

xmacro

A 28-yr old sheltered/pampered/spoiled dictator with nuclear weapons? What could go wrong?

Amos_Umwhat

Over 60 billion U.S. $ spent in Iraq, on "recovery", over 90 billion $pent in Afhanistan, on "recovery". I think 'lil Kim just wants his share. The Mouse that Roars.

kuzi16

Amos Umwhat:

'lil Kim

HA HA HA HA HA HA ...


that right there is funny.


we should ignore them and if by any chance we are sending them any money or goods, we should stop. that is all. they are nothing. once they attempt something seriously or attack us, we should level every government building, bunker, military base, or N. korean war ship at sea all within a 24 hour period. shortly after that we should contact them about terms of surrender.

Vulchor

kuzi16:

Amos Umwhat:

'lil Kim

HA HA HA HA HA HA ...


that right there is funny.


we should ignore them and if by any chance we are sending them any money or goods, we should stop. that is all. they are nothing. once they attempt something seriously or attack us, we should level every government building, bunker, military base, or N. korean war ship at sea all within a 24 hour period. shortly after that we should contact them about terms of surrender.

I'll be damned Kuz......we are in 100% agreement. I almost said we need to leave the whole thing alone...period. But doing it this way will just save more drama in the future.

raisindot

I wouldn't worry about this at all. Typical North Korean saber-rattling when the new kid takes power from dad. NK knows that to try anything would be suicide--even their former allies the Chinese are sick of them.

In terms of nuke threats I'd be far more worried about our "ally" Pakistan. Here's a large, chaotic country with nukes, a huge hatred of the U.S., a safe haven for terrorists and a military and bureaucracy chock full of Al-Queda sympathizers. The only 'upside' is that they're far more likely to nuke India than the U.S.

beatnic

It might be cool to live on the Island of South Korea.

jsnake

Anyone serving there now is probably prepping. I remember we did drills for this and they would shut down all telephone communication and things got real serious fast. South Korea is prepared. Tank traps line all waterways, bridges, and highways north of Seoul. All bridges north are laced with explosives. Artillery and tank battlements are pre dug. Fighting trenches, cement bunkers, helipads, everything is set for war. All you need to add is soldiers and gear. Very scary up there.

Rhamlin

I read something once. I don't remember if it was the north or the south but supposedly there are underground tunnels across the border big enough for tanks trucks troops etc.

fla-gypsy

The Chinese will shut him down, a war in Korea would be bad for business and they are the leading capitalists in the world right now. They have developed quite a taste for cash.

wwhwang

Honestly, I don't believe North Korea will actually invade. They don't have the manpower, the provisions, the weaponry, the communications system, nor the means to keep their military supplied and orderly. If it weren't for UN civilian relief supplies (food, clothing, medical supplies) that the North Koreans use to feed their military (surprise, surprise), their military would have very little means of functioning.

Kim Jong Eun learned well from his father and grandfather. Whine and make noise and the neighbors will appease you. This is what happened when Kim Jong Il had Japanese and Russian citizens kidnapped and when Kim Jong il threatened publicly to resume his nuclear research several times (which he did anyway after getting supplies). After a few weeks of heated words, food, oil, and supplies were sent to North Korea. That and even though China has a treaty that obligates them to protect North Korea, they're getting tired of dealing with them.

jsnake

Rhamlin:

I read something once. I don't remember if it was the north or the south but supposedly there are underground tunnels across the border big enough for tanks trucks troops etc.

The north dug tunnels everywhere. Some are wide enough to put 3 tanks across. I actually got to go inside two of them and look through the door and barriers on the 38th Parallel. I have also crossed into North Korea at Panmunjom. I have some really cool pictures but we are talking old school. No digital or I would share.

Rail_Jockey

jsnake:

Rhamlin:

I read something once. I don't remember if it was the north or the south but supposedly there are underground tunnels across the border big enough for tanks trucks troops etc.

The north dug tunnels everywhere. Some are wide enough to put 3 tanks across. I actually got to go inside two of them and look through the door and barriers on the 38th Parallel. I have also crossed into North Korea at Panmunjom. I have some really cool pictures but we are talking old school. No digital or I would share.

Take pictures of your pictures with your phone and post them

clearlysuspect

jsnake:

Rhamlin:

I read something once. I don't remember if it was the north or the south but supposedly there are underground tunnels across the border big enough for tanks trucks troops etc.

The north dug tunnels everywhere. Some are wide enough to put 3 tanks across. I actually got to go inside two of them and look through the door and barriers on the 38th Parallel. I have also crossed into North Korea at Panmunjom. I have some really cool pictures but we are talking old school. No digital or I would share.

Scanner... phone....etc.... you can't just say something cool like that and not share! Come on! We want to see. ;-)

jj20030

no problems now !

jgibv

Interesting analysis on the NK situation from a user on another website.
Note that the hyperlinks and citations from the original post were not transferred here, sorry.
The OP, including the hyperlinks, can be found here.

Today is Tuesday in Japan. Tomorrow is Tuesday in the US.

Today (Monday) it was announced that tomorrow (Tuesday) the Commander of the US Pacific Command is going to testify before the Senate Arm's Committee that North Korea presents a, "clear and direct threat" to the United States of America, and the region.

Today in Japan (Tuesday), or the same day as the hearing but a day after the announcement, Japan themselves announce that they are going to shoot down a missile even if it it's a test.

This would have been a violation of the Potsdam Declaration unless the US approved it and specifically identified North Korea as a hostile threat to Japan, thus allowing their military to engage for non-defensive purposes --> which firing on a test launch may qualify as.

If war were to break out the US Commander will assume control of both the Japanese defense forces, and the South Korean military as per the Korean Armistice Agreement of 1953 and other UN resolutions/Treaties. Japan is incapable of making this decision independent of the US giving permission/agreeing/being of the same mind.

Now, last week the US announced that it was going to cancel a missile test off the coast of California.4 This was done because the US didn't want North Korea to misinterpret the test as being aggressive and having it lead to war. If you understand the history of the Korean War you'll understand why the North Koreans believe the US is the aggressor.

Now, 2 days later, or this week General James Thurman (Commander of US/Korean forces) canceled a trip to Washington because of the tensions8 and now a day later the Japanese make the announcement that they will fire on a North Korean missile even if it's a test simultaneously with Admiral Samuel Locklear giving testimony before the Senate which formally allows Japan to fire. The article referenced here, the main article in this thread which states that North Korea has notified foreign embassies of their intent to test a missile on Wednesday (tomorrow) was also from the same day (Tuesday). Although I have no idea who said what to who first, the order that they came in across the international news outlets for me was (1) Admiral Locklear announcement, (2) Japan announcement, (3) North Korea announcement... meaning that North Korea may have been aware of Japan & Locklear's statements before they made their own. If they were not aware then they cannot get out of this without looking weak. The hand has been over played.

This is a way for the US to exert it's dominance. This is a way for the US to tell North Korea to do whatever the *** it wants, but to understand that they are going to be fighting everyone. US Pacific Fleet. ROK forces. Japan. China isn't going to help[citation needed]
They're **** now. There is no way out. This is how and where it's going to start or they're not going to bite. If they even think about firing a missile we're going to try and shoot it down. *** your test. The test in California just got moved to Japan. It's not a test. This just got real. No one is interested in barking anymore. You guys seriously need to understand this ***.

This is where it gets dangerous and this should NOT be minimized. North Korea is a failed state that cannot feed its own people. It will implode and self destruct without some sort of intervention. Historically, Kim Jung Un's father was able to do this every few years to get food. The new South Korean President promised to help with food but gave no specific terms. You can read about this and other comments she's made more recently here, here, here, here, and here. This is the beginning of the end for North Korea. Something is going to happen now. Even with intervention North Korea will never be the same. Kim Jung Un may or may not maintain power (or his life).

So their back is against a wall right now. This isn't funny. How they respond to Japan shooting down a missile could lead to all out war. If they don't go to war, the country is likely to implode without massive international intervention because of how bad the conditions are there, and if Kim Jung Un tries to abandon the nuclear program and oust the military? He'll likely be killed. There was already an attempt on his life last year.

The Swiss offered their assistance to mediate this and have said to have already been in contact with the North Koreans.

"For North Korea, symbols are very important," she told the SonntagsZeitung newspaper in an interview. "What the North Koreans still want is recognition and security guarantees from the United States."

Essentially what you're seeing here is an impossible situation that is gradually approaching a precipice. Washington has said no negotiations whatsoever until you completely abandon their nuclear program or you will starve to death. But if they up and abandon their military... then it may also mean death, at least the North Koreans may very well believe so. This is essentially the only way they can get to negotiate directly with anyone. They must do this for their survival. You are witnessing complete desperation. They cannot go on like this any longer.

North Korea began experiencing sanctions starting in 1993, a year before Kim Sung Il died. A nice chronology of events from 1945 through the present can be found here. So you go back to the 40s and read your way up. Then Kim Jung Il takes power and his situation was at least a lot better than Kim Jung Un's situation right now. I'm not defending them, or taking their side, but from their perspective this entire situation is completely different. What's really amusing is that this chronology literally has a single entry for the 1970s, and a single entry for the 1980s. I don't feel like extensively citing this but basically what happened during this time is Mao died, China changed, and the USSR collapsed. North Korea just kind of watched it all from the sidelines and was more or less helpless to change themselves. China never officially changed. North Korea just couldn't flip a switch and become a liberal pot friendly country like the Netherlands. They had to tow the party line in order to get what they had grown increasingly dependent on (Kim Sung Il's greatest fear) and this served to not only drive them further away from the rest of the world but also drove them further away from China because as China (and the USSR) changed and became more progressive North Korea became more of a burden while at the same time US-Chinese relations have continued to improve making the need for a "buffer state" even less important. The DMZ is already the most militarized border in the world. With the rise of ICBM's do you really think China cares about the Yalu river like they did in the 1950s?

The greatest irony of this entire tragedy is that of all the countries in the world that I am familiar with... the one that is most similar to the United States... is North Korea. North Korea is the Detroit of the world. No one else would have the pure balls to stand up to the worlds two largest super powers and put a middle finger in the air. Kim Jung Un is 30 years old and he is not in control of that country. He is just a few years older than you, the reader. He is most likely going to die a violent death because he was born into a **** family. The only other possibility is that this is all scripted theater we are watching. Kim Jung Un is about to "win" the Korean war and then will boldly open up the country and grow to be an old man like Fidel Castro. I hope this is the case. Hopefully we can maybe lift the sanctions before he dies... because that *** with Cuba is getting ridiculous and quite frankly North Korea isn't going to last for another 50 years of embargoes and sanctions. And if hipsters start mixing soju and cola and calling it ???? just because it's served with a slice of lime then I'm going to seriously flip my ***.

phobicsquirrel

jj20030:

no problems now !

lol, that made my day.