U.S. files criminal charges against Snowden

RainRain Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭
http://news.yahoo.com/u-files-criminal-complaint-against-snowden-over-leaks-223839407.html WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The government has filed sealed criminal charges against former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, who admitted leaking secrets about classified U.S. surveillance programs, U.S. sources said on Friday. A U.S. Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a criminal complaint had been filed against Snowden, who disclosed documents detailing U.S. telephone and internet surveillance efforts. Another U.S. source, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the United States was preparing to seek Snowden's extradition from Hong Kong, where he is believed to be in hiding. Earlier, the Washington Post reported that U.S. prosecutors have filed a sealed criminal complaint charging Snowden with espionage, theft and conversion of government property. The Post also reported that the United States has asked Hong Kong to detain Snowden on a provisional arrest warrant. The criminal complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, where Snowden's former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is located, the Post reported. Documents leaked by Snowden revealed that U.S. security services had monitored data about phone calls from Verizon and Internet data from large companies such as Google and Facebook as part of counterterrorism efforts. U.S. federal prosecutors, by filing a criminal complaint, lay claim to a legal basis to make the request of the authorities in Hong Kong, the Post reported. The prosecutors now have 60 days to file an indictment and can then take steps to secure Snowden's extradition from Hong Kong for a criminal trial in the United States, the newspaper reported. Snowden would be able to challenge the U.S. request for his extradition in court in Hong Kong, the Post reported. The newspaper noted the U.S. extradition treaty with Hong Kong has an exception for political offenses, and that espionage has been viewed as a political offense. An Icelandic businessman linked to the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks said on Thursday he had readied a private plane in China to fly Snowden to Iceland if Iceland's government would grant asylum. Iceland refused on Friday to say whether it would grant asylum to Snowden.
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Comments

  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    Do you think they want him to stand up in a court of law and tell the truth. Gov's in a tricky situation. They would rather he just disappear.
  • catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,001
    Funny...a whistleblower getting treason from the "most transparent" office that was supposed to protect them... Sick and tired of all the bastards tht have let this go on for a decade. This man is a hero, only after the fact is he considered a traitor. Best for him not to step on any helicopters, seems like all the important folks are having accidents and falling off them these days...
  • pilgrimtexpilgrimtex Posts: 429
    Sad state of affairs when you have to sneak off to a country like China to blow the whistle. We need to study Germany and the rise of Hitler to understand whats going on.
    Hero or traitor; I'll reserve judgement for later. As for the NSA it needs to be shut down. We need to have a country like Switerland. It was never invaded because there was a marksman and owner of firearms in every home. We have the ability to totally destroy our adversaries. Bring our warriors home. and promise to litterally destroy any country that sends terrorists or forces against us. Follow up with a sample of our promise. Also put an end to all overseas aid.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    catfishbluezz:
    Funny...a whistleblower getting treason from the "most transparent" office that was supposed to protect them... Sick and tired of all the bastards tht have let this go on for a decade. This man is a hero, only after the fact is he considered a traitor. Best for him not to step on any helicopters, seems like all the important folks are having accidents and falling off them these days...
    Yep! Total bs! So even though what the govt is doing is ILLEGAL, let us just say it's classified and part of NS. That way it would be illegal to expose it. WTF! Where is the outrage over this? Where is the pressure on this stuff? I mean the news covered the teaparty protesting health insurance reform for weeks ... however where are these people that are all about freedom? NO WHERE! I know there are protests going on however the news is just not showing it. Freaking ridiculous. And what really pisses me off is not only do you have the gop out there blasting this guy, you have so called liberal democrats blasting him too. And all we hear is, oh this stuff has stopped terrorism. Well you know what, bring it on, if it means me losing all of my privacy I'd rather take a chance. Maybe if we stopped trying to piss off every country we'd be better off. Eh ... Man now I am fuming. This stuff just really pisses me off.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    If anyone should be charged with Treason it should be whoever is covering this up, started it, and enacted it. I don't care who it is, or how many people, ALL should be put in jail. But NOOOOOOO that won't happen. Cuz numerous senators, congress-people, cabinet people, CIA/NSA officers, DOD officers, and even ex POTUS's and VP's would be charged. Much easier to just push all them under the rug and go after people who really do want freedom to be prosecuted. It's like we don't burn woman for being witches anymore, we just moved on and started acting like the govt is immune and can do what ever they want while we just get thrown in jail or fined up the ass. I mean bring on the **** camps already. I mean that's what is coming.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    Hell even judge Dredd isn't above the LAW!
  • catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,001
    Stuff like this is why I refuse to vote for either party. It's beyond party lines, this is a constitutional issue and any politician supporting it is a POS IMO. Obviously it's been going on and both parties have known. The fact we have people running our country who accepted this is ridiculous. How manat of our senators and congressmen have known for years?!?! I'm betting on a drone strike...
  • scarlinscarlin Posts: 1,592
    image
  • pilgrimtexpilgrimtex Posts: 429
    Hey! No pic
  • webmostwebmost Dull-AwarePosts: 5,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Barak Husein has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all previous presidents COMBINED.
    ... but zero financial criminals

    _________________________________
    hype and chains

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • webmostwebmost Dull-AwarePosts: 5,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 4,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    catfishbluezz:
    Stuff like this is why I refuse to vote for either party. It's beyond party lines, this is a constitutional issue and any politician supporting it is a POS IMO. Obviously it's been going on and both parties have known. The fact we have people running our country who accepted this is ridiculous. How manat of our senators and congressmen have known for years?!?! I'm betting on a drone strike...
    Bingo!
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "There is nothing so in need of reforming as someone else's bad habits."   Mark Twain
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 4,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pilgrimtex:
    Sad state of affairs when you have to sneak off to a country like China to blow the whistle. We need to study Germany and the rise of Hitler to understand whats going on.
    Hero or traitor; I'll reserve judgement for later. As for the NSA it needs to be shut down. We need to have a country like Switerland. It was never invaded because there was a marksman and owner of firearms in every home. We have the ability to totally destroy our adversaries. Bring our warriors home. and promise to litterally destroy any country that sends terrorists or forces against us. Follow up with a sample of our promise. Also put an end to all overseas aid.
    Well said, my friend. Every able bodied able minded Swiss has his military weapons and ammo in his house! No need for "Gun Free Zones".

    I've been advocating studying Germany and the rise of Hitler for awhile, based on conversations I've had with people who served, under Hitler, in the German military and SS, but folks don't want to hear that. Even a couple folks here, who never served a day in the military, took me to task for that, but I'm convinced that the Devil rises where the power is. OK, enough, before I start ranting.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "There is nothing so in need of reforming as someone else's bad habits."   Mark Twain
  • pilgrimtexpilgrimtex Posts: 429
    men brother! Preach on!
  • raisindotraisindot BostonPosts: 1,308 ✭✭✭
    pilgrimtex:
    Sad state of affairs when you have to sneak off to a country like China to blow the whistle. We need to study Germany and the rise of Hitler to understand whats going on.
    Hero or traitor; I'll reserve judgement for later. As for the NSA it needs to be shut down. We need to have a country like Switerland. It was never invaded because there was a marksman and owner of firearms in every home. We have the ability to totally destroy our adversaries. Bring our warriors home. and promise to litterally destroy any country that sends terrorists or forces against us. Follow up with a sample of our promise. Also put an end to all overseas aid.
    With all due respect, the reason Switzerland was never invaded (particularly during WWII) wasn't because citizens owned arms (the Russian army was far more well equipped than the Swiss, and that didn't stop the Germans from invading) but because 1) Switzerland's geography didn't make it easy for any army to invade; 2) Switzerland offered no economic benefits--no oil, very little agricultural capacity, no bouty of easily accessible minerlas--that would have it worth the Germans to take over the way they did the Balkans; 3) Switzerland offered no strategic advantages making it worth keeping armies there; 4) Switzerland always had a policy of neutrality from which it never wavered, making it far more useful for Germany to keep as a 'neutral buffer' than risk invading and turning a largely German population into an enemy.

    And a heavily armed civilian population has rarely if ever deterred an invading force. It certainly didn't stop Bush from invading Afghanistan and Iraq. Didn't stop the Russians from invading Afghanistan. Didn't stop the U.S. from fighting in North Vietnam. Didn't stop Grant and Sherman from invading the south. Didn't stop the Israelis from fighting in the Gaza Strip.

    And in terms of "destroying our enemies" the only way we can do this quickly and effectively is through nuclear war. And let's remember that a number of countries who AREN'T our friends have nuclear capabilities of their own.

    We've seen over and over and over throughout our history what isolationism has done. We definitely can pull our brave and selfless soldiers out of useless wars (like Iraq and Afghanistan), but to totally disengage with the world would put us a high degree of political and economic risk that would leave us even more vulnerable to terrorist arracks.

    Now, none of this has anything to do with the Snowden story, and I agree with all who say that all of these wirerapping and privacy invasion crap is reprehensible. But it's not illegal and it's not unconstitutional, because there's NOTHING in the Constitution that proclaims the right to privacy or the right not to have your rights as citizens taken away from you at the government's whim. These rights have been trampled since the Alien & Sedition Acts of 1799, continued with Lincoln's suspension of Habeus Corpus in the Civil War, lasted for over 100 years with Jim Crow laws in the south, continued with the Palmer raids, the forced imprisonment of Japanese-Americas in WWII, the McCarthy witch hunts, Nixon's "enemies list" and Watergate, the creation of the Homeland Security Department and its unlimited powers of prying into every aspect of our lives, Guantanamo Bay, and now these continued abuse of NSA powers to tap telephone calls for unspecified purposes. All bad. But all legal since they were authorized by Congress and their legality has never been tested in court. So who's to blame? WE THE PEOPLE are, for raising nary a whimper of protest against these policies. In nearly every situation except gun ownership, the government has convinced us to give away our right to privacy in the name of security. And most Americans have bought into this Faustian deal.
  • clearlysuspectclearlysuspect Jacksonville, FloridaPosts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭
    Very well said Raisin!!!! WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for so much more than we enjoy to admit. This is the main reason why most people who hate america hate americans. Because we almost always sit back and watch our leaders trample all over everyone else and don't raise hell as long as it doesn't effect our comfort.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 4,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    clearlysuspect:
    Very well said Raisin!!!! WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for so much more than we enjoy to admit. This is the main reason why most people who hate america hate americans. Because we almost always sit back and watch our leaders trample all over everyone else and don't raise hell as long as it doesn't effect our comfort.
    Which brings us again to studying the history of Germany during the 1930's. The German govt was trampling over it's neighbors, while the average German was comfortable and largely in the dark concerning so many things that were happening due to the Fatherlands interventions outside the borders.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "There is nothing so in need of reforming as someone else's bad habits."   Mark Twain
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,799 ✭✭✭
    Amos Umwhat:
    clearlysuspect:
    Very well said Raisin!!!! WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for so much more than we enjoy to admit. This is the main reason why most people who hate america hate americans. Because we almost always sit back and watch our leaders trample all over everyone else and don't raise hell as long as it doesn't effect our comfort.
    Which brings us again to studying the history of Germany during the 1930's. The German govt was trampling over it's neighbors, while the average German was comfortable and largely in the dark concerning so many things that were happening due to the Fatherlands interventions outside the borders.
    Dumb, fat, and happy? We are the country of Honey Boo Boo, Biggest Loser, and Jersey Shore........just sayin.
  • EHaddockEHaddock Posts: 24
    All,
    What concerns me the most is the unopposed view that we must be safe. So safe that our liberties can be trampled to make it so.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.
    Mahalo, Edward
  • webmostwebmost Dull-AwarePosts: 5,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    EHaddock:
    All,
    What concerns me the most is the unopposed view that we must be safe. So safe that our liberties can be trampled to make it so.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.
    Mahalo, Edward
    O'er the ho-ome of the regulated
    And la-and of the circumspect

    Play Ball!
    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    Vulchor:
    Amos Umwhat:
    clearlysuspect:
    Very well said Raisin!!!! WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for so much more than we enjoy to admit. This is the main reason why most people who hate america hate americans. Because we almost always sit back and watch our leaders trample all over everyone else and don't raise hell as long as it doesn't effect our comfort.
    Which brings us again to studying the history of Germany during the 1930's. The German govt was trampling over it's neighbors, while the average German was comfortable and largely in the dark concerning so many things that were happening due to the Fatherlands interventions outside the borders.
    Dumb, fat, and happy? We are the country of Honey Boo Boo, Biggest Loser, and Jersey Shore........just sayin.
    so true. ....but from polls majority of people are fine with it. That "i'm not doing anything wrong" line is really pissing me off.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 4,882 ✭✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    Vulchor:
    Amos Umwhat:
    clearlysuspect:
    Very well said Raisin!!!! WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for so much more than we enjoy to admit. This is the main reason why most people who hate america hate americans. Because we almost always sit back and watch our leaders trample all over everyone else and don't raise hell as long as it doesn't effect our comfort.
    Which brings us again to studying the history of Germany during the 1930's. The German govt was trampling over it's neighbors, while the average German was comfortable and largely in the dark concerning so many things that were happening due to the Fatherlands interventions outside the borders.
    Dumb, fat, and happy? We are the country of Honey Boo Boo, Biggest Loser, and Jersey Shore........just sayin.
    so true. ....but from polls majority of people are fine with it. That "i'm not doing anything wrong" line is really pissing me off.
    Yep. And this is the point I'm trying to make talking about Germany. I know, many probably mistakenly think I'm making some Obama = Adolf statement, not at all. What concerns me is the way so many are led to believe that all the problems are "other" related. It's "them" that are causing the problems. Whatever minority group or splinter faction can be blamed, or other political party, or whatever.

    I don't think anyone here is suggesting isolationism, but the solutions to our problems are not going to be found by intervening in lost cause situations on the other side of the world, or by sending all "the illegals" back to wherever. I just want us to concentrate on US, and what can WE do to maintain a dream that was set forth over 2 centuries ago, and is still in the progress of development.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "There is nothing so in need of reforming as someone else's bad habits."   Mark Twain
  • pilgrimtexpilgrimtex Posts: 429
    Amos Umwhat:
    phobicsquirrel:
    Vulchor:
    Amos Umwhat:
    clearlysuspect:
    Very well said Raisin!!!! WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for so much more than we enjoy to admit. This is the main reason why most people who hate america hate americans. Because we almost always sit back and watch our leaders trample all over everyone else and don't raise hell as long as it doesn't effect our comfort.
    Which brings us again to studying the history of Germany during the 1930's. The German govt was trampling over it's neighbors, while the average German was comfortable and largely in the dark concerning so many things that were happening due to the Fatherlands interventions outside the borders.
    Dumb, fat, and happy? We are the country of Honey Boo Boo, Biggest Loser, and Jersey Shore........just sayin.
    so true. ....but from polls majority of people are fine with it. That "i'm not doing anything wrong" line is really pissing me off.
    Yep. And this is the point I'm trying to make talking about Germany. I know, many probably mistakenly think I'm making some Obama = Adolf statement, not at all. What concerns me is the way so many are led to believe that all the problems are "other" related. It's "them" that are causing the problems. Whatever minority group or splinter faction can be blamed, or other political party, or whatever.

    I don't think anyone here is suggesting isolationism, but the solutions to our problems are not going to be found by intervening in lost cause situations on the other side of the world, or by sending all "the illegals" back to wherever. I just want us to concentrate on US, and what can WE do to maintain a dream that was set forth over 2 centuries ago, and is still in the progress of development.

    Been away for a few days and look whats happened. OK. You probably know more about history than I do. I agree about Switzerland and the mountains. Just remembering a quote from some German Officer about Switzerland. My parents came over from Germany in 1929 to NYC. They knew all about what happened to Germany after WW1 and the treaties that were signed to keep Germany in its place. I had 5 uncles who served on the side of Germany in WW2 but were not part of the **** party. One lost an arm to an American machine gun and was a POW of the Russians.
    What I was getting to was the scope of our excuse for a gov't which tramples all over the constitution at will. Trys to disarm the people when the 2nd amendmant was there so the citizens could overthrow a Gov't like we have today. Thats the bottom line to their gun control. No we don't want to be isolationists but we don't want to be the world's police force either. We should be more along the lines of a 1% motorcycle club. Mess with just one of us and you are history. By the way; The United Nations needs to leave our soil.
  • webmostwebmost Dull-AwarePosts: 5,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sheeple will feel safer from terrorism once Snowden is squashed. All our griping only feeds Big Brother's databanks.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    pilgrimtex:
    Amos Umwhat:
    phobicsquirrel:
    Vulchor:
    Amos Umwhat:
    clearlysuspect:
    Very well said Raisin!!!! WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for so much more than we enjoy to admit. This is the main reason why most people who hate america hate americans. Because we almost always sit back and watch our leaders trample all over everyone else and don't raise hell as long as it doesn't effect our comfort.
    Which brings us again to studying the history of Germany during the 1930's. The German govt was trampling over it's neighbors, while the average German was comfortable and largely in the dark concerning so many things that were happening due to the Fatherlands interventions outside the borders.
    Dumb, fat, and happy? We are the country of Honey Boo Boo, Biggest Loser, and Jersey Shore........just sayin.
    so true. ....but from polls majority of people are fine with it. That "i'm not doing anything wrong" line is really pissing me off.
    Yep. And this is the point I'm trying to make talking about Germany. I know, many probably mistakenly think I'm making some Obama = Adolf statement, not at all. What concerns me is the way so many are led to believe that all the problems are "other" related. It's "them" that are causing the problems. Whatever minority group or splinter faction can be blamed, or other political party, or whatever.

    I don't think anyone here is suggesting isolationism, but the solutions to our problems are not going to be found by intervening in lost cause situations on the other side of the world, or by sending all "the illegals" back to wherever. I just want us to concentrate on US, and what can WE do to maintain a dream that was set forth over 2 centuries ago, and is still in the progress of development.

    Been away for a few days and look whats happened. OK. You probably know more about history than I do. I agree about Switzerland and the mountains. Just remembering a quote from some German Officer about Switzerland. My parents came over from Germany in 1929 to NYC. They knew all about what happened to Germany after WW1 and the treaties that were signed to keep Germany in its place. I had 5 uncles who served on the side of Germany in WW2 but were not part of the **** party. One lost an arm to an American machine gun and was a POW of the Russians.
    What I was getting to was the scope of our excuse for a gov't which tramples all over the constitution at will. Trys to disarm the people when the 2nd amendmant was there so the citizens could overthrow a Gov't like we have today. Thats the bottom line to their gun control. No we don't want to be isolationists but we don't want to be the world's police force either. We should be more along the lines of a 1% motorcycle club. Mess with just one of us and you are history. By the way; The United Nations needs to leave our soil.
    My grandfather fought in WW1 on the German side. Left Germany just before they invaded Poland. I never got to talk to him, very sad about that. Though my dad has a lot of stories. From what my dad has told me and also what I have read and watched, seems to be the first several steps of destroying civility is already happening in this country. Propaganda, major divisions between its people, unemployment, moving the wealth to a small percentage of people, destroying public services, increased military budgets, and pushing national security and war. We are way too far into this stuff as a country.

    I don't know what you are talking about when you say "disarm" the people?. Maybe certain states that I don't know about are trying to take guns away but on a national stage I don't see that happening. Whether people have access to mini guns or rpg's, I don't think any band of people would be able to over throw the govt. I mean that is a really silly argument I hear. The govt doesn't even need any armed foot soldiers to take out militants. Just use a satellite to take out a group.

    The govt is trampling over our constitution though, have for some time. The NSA leaks and what they have been doing isn't anything new. They have been doing this for decades, though it has ramped up severely since the bush admin and there is nothing to show that it will end any time soon. Sadly people of this country aren't taking to the streets and protesting over this. Seems to me we are more than happy to be ruled. The TSA alone should have been stopped from doing what they are/have been doing. The media is the worst on this. If anyone should be upset over what this Snowden thing is going through it should be them. I mean most news articles I have seen or watched are all about making him look like a traitor. Let's see, he exposed massive illegal acts done by our govt and not to mention "private" companies doing these things. HELLO! What's next locking up reporters, well doubt that will happen any time soon since we have basically corporate media.
  • pilgrimtexpilgrimtex Posts: 429
    Good words Phobsquirrel.
    Remember about the time the constitution was written. The arms made in the US were good quality and more accurate than the English smooth bores. Arms to them meant more then what we're allowed today. We have already had the 2nd by not being able to own automatic weapons without a special permit and heavier weapons.
    Indoctrination has been ongoing for years. College grads today for the most part are Zombies speaking the liberal mantra.
    We may not have the arms necessary as civilians but I believe in the 80/20 rule. In other words I feel the majority of the military will not raise arms against the people. This is not Germany and therefore not as regimented. I know a lot of them and here in TX with the largest army base in the US that we are first Texicans. LOL Even a Bronx native like myself.
    image
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    pilgrimtex:
    Good words Phobsquirrel.
    Remember about the time the constitution was written. The arms made in the US were good quality and more accurate than the English smooth bores. Arms to them meant more then what we're allowed today. We have already had the 2nd by not being able to own automatic weapons without a special permit and heavier weapons.
    Indoctrination has been ongoing for years. College grads today for the most part are Zombies speaking the liberal mantra.
    We may not have the arms necessary as civilians but I believe in the 80/20 rule. In other words I feel the majority of the military will not raise arms against the people. This is not Germany and therefore not as regimented. I know a lot of them and here in TX with the largest army base in the US that we are first Texicans. LOL Even a Bronx native like myself.
    image
    I don't know if I agree with you on that part. A lot of the liberal mantra is populism. Not all of it but a lot of it. I don't really like the word game, though the party structure has made us think this way and at times I find myself doing it. I align myself more with the liberals than any other POV, however I don't always agree with them. At times I agree with libertarians. I can't really think of anything I would agree with on the current GOP line along with the current democratic line. Seems to me both of them parties are owned by corporations. I do think most colleges align themselves with the corporatism that is and has swept our nation/politics which is very sad. I personally think that education should be just that, education and should be allowed to be pursued by anyone who seeks it, just not the wealthy or if one's not they get saddled with huge amounts of debt. I've been to several schools mainly due to being in the military but I would say I've seen a fair amount of both liberal/conserv idealism in the classroom. Whether it be by the teachers or by the way the school promotes itself. Either way I disagree with it. Schools should be non-partisan.

    The media is largely conservative, if that means anything anymore. All of the major media networks never if rarely show anything that shines a negative light on the corporate structure, or anyone going against authoritarianism. I remember watching the occupy protests and seeing how the media was not reporting on the actual truth of the movement and what was going on. I remember going down to portland and being apart of the many marches and while there watching a live feed on my cell from the local news and even then it was BS. What was being reported was largely skewed against OWS. Even on the raids that were going on later in the movement OWS was shown as a mob and a menace. I watched a lot of local feeds from the OWS side along with the media reports and if one was just watching the news they would being fed a bunch of bull. Same is said of the tea party groups. Largely they were funded by corporate sponsors for the purpose of keeping themselves at the table. But the news never reported on that part. The snowden case, another example of how the media is not going after the real story which is that the govt is doing something illegal. Instead it is focusing on making this one man the story and making him look like a terrorist.

    Another example is how the media, instead of focusing on what is not going on such as job creation, plasters bs trials, bickering back and forth between the dems and the gop over stupid things such as the sequestration crap months ago, or that the gop is going to shut down the govt instead of raising the debt spending. I mean why doesn't the media tell us masses why this is all happening or why not? Well because it would be news and thus people would be informed.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    if people would get out of the mindset of a party or a group idea and focus on each subject we as a country would be much more united. Breaking down a lot of wedge issues re-enforces that the liberal, conservative meme is just making use divided. Hell, the current major parties are so far from these names it's pathetic. The GOP is only conservative when it doesn't help big business or themselves. The dems are only liberal when it comes to throwing scraps to the people of their party. The rest of the time they bow to their masters. The Clinton era dems helped kill the democratic party and nothing has changed since, in fact it has gotten worse. The GOP, well Reagan really pushed it away from reason but it was going on for some time. Either way both parties are old and need to be fixed or done away with. I really do support killing parties. They are a cancer on our govt and our nation. Sooner we as a country figure this out we will be better off. Sadly though it may be too late. Seems as though no matter what party is in control no change will happen, and by change I mean for the better.
  • pilgrimtexpilgrimtex Posts: 429
    Here Here. Encore.
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