On the front lines of Pro Choice

beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
These are the crazies of the bunch.
Before all is said and done, it will probably OK to abort your fetus up until they are 5 years old.

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  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    All these foolish people who do not Believe!
    The World overflows with rampant stupidity!
    A life is started at conception, argue if you must, but a life it is!

    Melissa Harris-Perry thinks she has the answer to the ages old question of just when life begins. Her answer: life begins whenever parents "decide" it does.

    I was brought forth back unto these forums for this one time to decree this woman a FOOL!
    As I have stated many time before Satan sends forth false Profits to corrupt our minds and this THING fits the description to the letter!
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    :)
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 4,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RBeckom:
    All these foolish people who do not Believe!
    The World overflows with rampant stupidity!
    A life is started at conception, argue if you must, but a life it is!

    Melissa Harris-Perry thinks she has the answer to the ages old question of just when life begins. Her answer: life begins whenever parents "decide" it does.

    I was brought forth back unto these forums for this one time to decree this woman a FOOL!
    As I have stated many time before Satan sends forth false Profits to corrupt our minds and this THING fits the description to the letter!
    Once I believed differently, but, to my way of thinking science and religion are in agreement. Life begins when the chromosomes pair up. Of course it "can't survive", he/she won't be able to do that for several years after leaving the womb. From the religious point of view, God told Job: "I knew you before you were in your mother's womb." The spirit, being timeless, was first. Seems simple.

    Oh, I'm all about pro-choice, though. However, once she's decided to engage in an act that carries with it the possibility of conception, her choice has ended. Now, there is responsiblilty for your choice. Goes for Dad, too.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    Amos Umwhat:
    RBeckom:
    All these foolish people who do not Believe!
    The World overflows with rampant stupidity!
    A life is started at conception, argue if you must, but a life it is!

    Melissa Harris-Perry thinks she has the answer to the ages old question of just when life begins. Her answer: life begins whenever parents "decide" it does.

    I was brought forth back unto these forums for this one time to decree this woman a FOOL!
    As I have stated many time before Satan sends forth false Profits to corrupt our minds and this THING fits the description to the letter!
    Once I believed differently, but, to my way of thinking science and religion are in agreement. Life begins when the chromosomes pair up. Of course it "can't survive", he/she won't be able to do that for several years after leaving the womb. From the religious point of view, God told Job: "I knew you before you were in your mother's womb." The spirit, being timeless, was first. Seems simple.

    Oh, I'm all about pro-choice, though. However, once she's decided to engage in an act that carries with it the possibility of conception, her choice has ended. Now, there is responsiblilty for your choice. Goes for Dad, too.



    Amen!
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    harris perry is an idiot, I'll agree with that. I'm not even going to bother with arguing over abortion, cuz really it's not my choice. What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching and way more important than the govt want's to ban assault weapons. Really who cares when at what stage life begins? I mean until it actually breaths for itself it's really not alive. Either way, just saying that "oh they shouldn't have had sex" is not going to fix anything. The whole point of making abortions not illegal is because of the health of woman all across America. I mean if it was banned they wouldn't stop. You would have more deaths and more costs because woman would get them.

    Women in Texas are going to Mexico to get birth control and soon probably abortions. Making things illegal doesn't work. I mean take it to cigars, why is it we can't buy Cubans? Oh because some stupid govt officials had issues with them. Well hello, CHINA isn't our friend either. All it is is one side using it to attack the other and it's all political BS. Hell the GOP have spent almost their entire time in congress (since taking it over) trying to either gut the ACA or pass abortion stuff. With some minor let's save the rich or attack these countries but no money to help our domestic issues.
  • jthanatosjthanatos Posts: 1,570 ✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    I mean until it actually breaths for itself it's really not alive.
    I hope I never end up choking on something near you. :P

    Should we do the heimlich?

    No, he's dead to me.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 4,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching and way more important than the govt want's to ban assault weapons... Making things illegal doesn't work. ... With some minor let's save the rich or attack these countries but no money to help our domestic issues.
    On these points we agree.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  
  • perkinkeperkinke Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭
    It's the hypocrisy of many of the pro-choice politicians (and some of the people I know) who claim to be interested in the welfare of a fetus, yet then when it's born they're all about stripping away funding that may help that child, from ripping away the safety net to increasing the costs of student loans to destroying the SNAP and TANF funding. Add to that the demonizing of women who dare to have that child out of wedlock and, for me, you have an extreme lack of credibility and compassion. You want to step up the post-birth caring portion such as HeadStart and relief nurseries then I will consider listening again, until then...not a chance.

    I did love the requirement proposed in Virginia as a counter to their misogynistic proposals that any man wanting **** will have to undergo a colonoscopy first, that it failed by a single vote SHOULD have shamed some of those into rethinking their votes regarding women's bodies, but it didn't.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    phobicsquirrel:
    . What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching
    C'mon squirrel. Lumping people together again? I guess I could say that most people on the pro choice opinion usually side with unions and LGBT, global warming, higher taxes, gun confiscation, mandatory heal care, illegal aliens, open borders, IRS cops, sea turtles, and the myriad of other special interest groups under the umbrella of the Democratic Party. But there are a lot of turtle lovers that don't give a hoot about owls or unions.

    Throw out the crazies on the right and I'll probably laugh along with you. But, this 2-way, left-right politics has pretty much divided this whole country. And it doesn't make for thoughtful debate.
  • kaspera79kaspera79 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭
    RBeckom:
    All these foolish people who do not Believe!
    The World overflows with rampant stupidity!
    A life is started at conception, argue if you must, but a life it is!

    Melissa Harris-Perry thinks she has the answer to the ages old question of just when life begins. Her answer: life begins whenever parents "decide" it does.

    I was brought forth back unto these forums for this one time to decree this woman a FOOL!
    As I have stated many time before Satan sends forth false Profits to corrupt our minds and this THING fits the description to the letter!
    Good afternoon Rodney. It's nice to know you are still keeping an eye on us. Enjoy your weekend friend.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    beatnic:
    phobicsquirrel:
    . What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching
    C'mon squirrel. Lumping people together again? I guess I could say that most people on the pro choice opinion usually side with unions and LGBT, global warming, higher taxes, gun confiscation, mandatory heal care, illegal aliens, open borders, IRS cops, sea turtles, and the myriad of other special interest groups under the umbrella of the Democratic Party. But there are a lot of turtle lovers that don't give a hoot about owls or unions.

    Throw out the crazies on the right and I'll probably laugh along with you. But, this 2-way, left-right politics has pretty much divided this whole country. And it doesn't make for thoughtful debate.
    Exactly! It's all down to that right there. However what you said above is mostly true. "most" people who are for the so called "pro choice" (I really never liked that word) do lean towards the things you mentioned, though I guess you could lump turtles into some animal group, maybe peta I dunno. Sorry to tell you but a lot of large issues do have "lumps" of people who lean towards them. I personally like to take issue by issue and then you'll be amazed at how many people from all walks of faith or party agree or disagree based on that one issue. I do however like to see how many issues that most american's can agree on which are "populist" are on the left of the spectrum. But the essence of a "small" govt I do agree with to a point. And sadly a lot of people say they are for a small one but in reality they are not. Again, sadly people in govt have turned govt against the people and have really soured the masses to it. Though it's been this way for some time but I do feel things are coming to a head.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    phobicsquirrel:
    beatnic:
    phobicsquirrel:
    . What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching
    C'mon squirrel. Lumping people together again? I guess I could say that most people on the pro choice opinion usually side with unions and LGBT, global warming, higher taxes, gun confiscation, mandatory heal care, illegal aliens, open borders, IRS cops, sea turtles, and the myriad of other special interest groups under the umbrella of the Democratic Party. But there are a lot of turtle lovers that don't give a hoot about owls or unions.

    Throw out the crazies on the right and I'll probably laugh along with you. But, this 2-way, left-right politics has pretty much divided this whole country. And it doesn't make for thoughtful debate.
    Exactly! It's all down to that right there. However what you said above is mostly true. "most" people who are for the so called "pro choice" (I really never liked that word) do lean towards the things you mentioned, though I guess you could lump turtles into some animal group, maybe peta I dunno. Sorry to tell you but a lot of large issues do have "lumps" of people who lean towards them. I personally like to take issue by issue and then you'll be amazed at how many people from all walks of faith or party agree or disagree based on that one issue. I do however like to see how many issues that most american's can agree on which are "populist" are on the left of the spectrum. But the essence of a "small" govt I do agree with to a point. And sadly a lot of people say they are for a small one but in reality they are not. Again, sadly people in govt have turned govt against the people and have really soured the masses to it. Though it's been this way for some time but I do feel things are coming to a head.
    Well, there you go. I'm a geologist, marine biologist, and heavy into environmental issues. The CO2 based global warming fear is not one of them. That's liberal politics. I'm a spiritual Christian, but don't include me in the 7 day creationists group. I like cigars. Is that liberal or conservative.?
    Politics actually divides people.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    beatnic:
    phobicsquirrel:
    beatnic:
    phobicsquirrel:
    . What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching
    C'mon squirrel. Lumping people together again? I guess I could say that most people on the pro choice opinion usually side with unions and LGBT, global warming, higher taxes, gun confiscation, mandatory heal care, illegal aliens, open borders, IRS cops, sea turtles, and the myriad of other special interest groups under the umbrella of the Democratic Party. But there are a lot of turtle lovers that don't give a hoot about owls or unions.

    Throw out the crazies on the right and I'll probably laugh along with you. But, this 2-way, left-right politics has pretty much divided this whole country. And it doesn't make for thoughtful debate.
    Exactly! It's all down to that right there. However what you said above is mostly true. "most" people who are for the so called "pro choice" (I really never liked that word) do lean towards the things you mentioned, though I guess you could lump turtles into some animal group, maybe peta I dunno. Sorry to tell you but a lot of large issues do have "lumps" of people who lean towards them. I personally like to take issue by issue and then you'll be amazed at how many people from all walks of faith or party agree or disagree based on that one issue. I do however like to see how many issues that most american's can agree on which are "populist" are on the left of the spectrum. But the essence of a "small" govt I do agree with to a point. And sadly a lot of people say they are for a small one but in reality they are not. Again, sadly people in govt have turned govt against the people and have really soured the masses to it. Though it's been this way for some time but I do feel things are coming to a head.
    Well, there you go. I'm a geologist, marine biologist, and heavy into environmental issues. The CO2 based global warming fear is not one of them. That's liberal politics. I'm a spiritual Christian, but don't include me in the 7 day creationists group. I like cigars. Is that liberal or conservative.?
    Politics actually divides people.
    ...global warming is liberal politics? okay, maybe the denial of it is gop politics but the planet is warming due to humans. Well as you are a marine biologist then maybe you can tell me that all the emissions from fossil fuels and natural gas is okay for the water? That in no way is this huge release of all these gases and toxins not causing massive problems on our planet? Because most of the scientific community agrees that global warming is real, hell over the last decade there has been huge shifts in our weather. I never said that just because you are for one thing you have to be in all other things of that group. I said that some issues a lot if not most people support other issues in a group.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    phobicsquirrel:
    beatnic:
    phobicsquirrel:
    beatnic:
    phobicsquirrel:
    . What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching
    C'mon squirrel. Lumping people together again? I guess I could say that most people on the pro choice opinion usually side with unions and LGBT, global warming, higher taxes, gun confiscation, mandatory heal care, illegal aliens, open borders, IRS cops, sea turtles, and the myriad of other special interest groups under the umbrella of the Democratic Party. But there are a lot of turtle lovers that don't give a hoot about owls or unions.

    Throw out the crazies on the right and I'll probably laugh along with you. But, this 2-way, left-right politics has pretty much divided this whole country. And it doesn't make for thoughtful debate.
    Exactly! It's all down to that right there. However what you said above is mostly true. "most" people who are for the so called "pro choice" (I really never liked that word) do lean towards the things you mentioned, though I guess you could lump turtles into some animal group, maybe peta I dunno. Sorry to tell you but a lot of large issues do have "lumps" of people who lean towards them. I personally like to take issue by issue and then you'll be amazed at how many people from all walks of faith or party agree or disagree based on that one issue. I do however like to see how many issues that most american's can agree on which are "populist" are on the left of the spectrum. But the essence of a "small" govt I do agree with to a point. And sadly a lot of people say they are for a small one but in reality they are not. Again, sadly people in govt have turned govt against the people and have really soured the masses to it. Though it's been this way for some time but I do feel things are coming to a head.
    Well, there you go. I'm a geologist, marine biologist, and heavy into environmental issues. The CO2 based global warming fear is not one of them. That's liberal politics. I'm a spiritual Christian, but don't include me in the 7 day creationists group. I like cigars. Is that liberal or conservative.?
    Politics actually divides people.
    ...global warming is liberal politics? okay, maybe the denial of it is gop politics but the planet is warming due to humans. Well as you are a marine biologist then maybe you can tell me that all the emissions from fossil fuels and natural gas is okay for the water? That in no way is this huge release of all these gases and toxins not causing massive problems on our planet? Because most of the scientific community agrees that global warming is real, hell over the last decade there has been huge shifts in our weather. I never said that just because you are for one thing you have to be in all other things of that group. I said that some issues a lot if not most people support other issues in a group.
    CO2 based, man-made global warming is not proven science. In fact, its' not even based on science. I could argue with you all day on this subject, but it probably wouldn't change your view.
    http://www.c3headlines.com/2013/07/global-warming-decelerate-stabilize-cool-satellite-co2-ipcc.html
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel: What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching


    Murder is murder no matter when it occurs!
    If you had a wife and she became pregnant and it pleased you, yet a man struck her in the belly while robbing her and the child within her died, would not even YOU in your heart want for to seek vengeance and grieve for your child?
    Blood is not only spilt unto the ground but also in the operating room and the one's who do murder Gods Children while still in the womb are still held accountable for they're actions when they be Judged.
    As I said, the world is full of false profit's!
    Believe or not and still you WILL be Judged as are all!
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    kaspera79:
    RBeckom:
    All these foolish people who do not Believe!
    The World overflows with rampant stupidity!
    A life is started at conception, argue if you must, but a life it is!

    Melissa Harris-Perry thinks she has the answer to the ages old question of just when life begins. Her answer: life begins whenever parents "decide" it does.

    I was brought forth back unto these forums for this one time to decree this woman a FOOL!
    As I have stated many time before Satan sends forth false Profits to corrupt our minds and this THING fits the description to the letter!
    Good afternoon Rodney. It's nice to know you are still keeping an eye on us. Enjoy your weekend friend.



    Hello, and yes I do still lurk here to read and learn of human nature, both good and bad. Bad seems to be winning as the way the forums have evolved lately.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    RBeckom:
    phobicsquirrel: What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching


    Murder is murder no matter when it occurs!
    If you had a wife and she became pregnant and it pleased you, yet a man struck her in the belly while robbing her and the child within her died, would not even YOU in your heart want for to seek vengeance and grieve for your child?
    Blood is not only spilt unto the ground but also in the operating room and the one's who do murder Gods Children while still in the womb are still held accountable for they're actions when they be Judged.
    As I said, the world is full of false profit's!
    Believe or not and still you WILL be Judged as are all!
    First, again with this "small govt" thing. Like you said anti abortionists usually are on this "small govt" ride however only when it suits their needs. So allowing a woman to control her own body (either through birth control pills or abortions) is wrong thus govt needs to say YOU can't. But the govt say, keeping people from buying assault weapons is over stepping? So guns are out of the pervu of the govt to control but the govt can control a woman's body? Also the same crowed seems to either be fine with or keep voting for people who love war and thus allow hundreds of thousands of people to die as well as kill our economic structure. Also they love pollutants as they keep allowing these dangerous toxins to seep into our air, land, and water (I'll give you that the democratic party isn't exactly clean on this). They also want to push a govt ID card on anyone who wants to vote although in a lot of areas it is hard to get because of the way the dmv's are handled and or people don't have the time or means to get one.

    The difference being if my wife and I decide to terminate a pregnancy it is her choice first and mine second. Mainly because, she's deciding or her doctor advises it for what ever reason. I personally do not think a fetus is a baby, however my wife does. Now if she was attacked and the fetus would be destroyed then I would want vengeance as not only was my wife attacked but she now has had an unwanted termination of her fetus. So there is a huge difference there.

    Now I do know plenty of people who are against abortion (my wife is one of them) however saying that just because you don't like it everyone should have to follow your beliefs is non-sense. I think that anyone that can't support a child should be unable to have kids or if they do they are either given to people who want them and can support them or they be aborted. Now many do not share my view but none the less I believe in it so should I if elected try to make everyone do it my way? NO, because it is not for the greater good. Govt is usually suppose to act in the best interest of the population.

    I also get a kick out of people who want a woman to keep a pregnancy no matter what even though they want to destroy our social safety net, or they keep saying that people on food stamps, medicaid, welfare, assistance (you name it) are dragging down our system. Well if abortions were illegal then not only would there be more woman being hurt and going to the ER's, you would have a even larger portion of the country on these programs. So that means even more money being used to support them. Now it is proven than woman who are more educated have less children, than people who are not. So now you are taking away a woman's right to decide when they can have a family and when not too, which leads to many other problems. Basically the only people who should have any say in legality of abortions should be woman. Men shouldn't be in the equation.
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    RBeckom:
    phobicsquirrel: What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching


    Murder is murder no matter when it occurs!
    If you had a wife and she became pregnant and it pleased you, yet a man struck her in the belly while robbing her and the child within her died, would not even YOU in your heart want for to seek vengeance and grieve for your child?
    Blood is not only spilt unto the ground but also in the operating room and the one's who do murder Gods Children while still in the womb are still held accountable for they're actions when they be Judged.
    As I said, the world is full of false profit's!
    Believe or not and still you WILL be Judged as are all!
    First, again with this "small govt" thing. Like you said anti abortionists usually are on his "small govt" ride however only when it suits their needs. So allowing a woman to control her own body (either through birth control pills or abortions) is wrong thus govt needs to say YOU can't. But the govt say, keeping people from buying assault weapons is over stepping? So guns are out of the pervu of the govt to control but the govt can control a woman's body? Also the same crowed seems to either be fine with or keep voting for people who love war and thus allow hundreds of thousands of people to die as well as kill our economic structure. Also they love pollutants as they keep allowing these dangerous toxins to seep into our air, land, and water (I'll give you that the democratic party isn't exactly clean on this). They also want to push a govt ID card on anyone who wants to vote although in a lot of areas it is hard to get because of the way the dmv's are handled and or people don't have the time or means to get one.

    The difference being if my wife and I decide to terminate a pregnancy it is her choice first and mine second. Mainly because, she's deciding or her doctor advises it for what ever reason. I personally do not think a fetus is a baby, however my wife does. Now if she was attacked and the fetus would be destroyed then I would want vengeance as not only was my wife attacked but she now has had an unwanted termination of her fetus. So there is a huge difference there.

    Now I do know plenty of people who are against abortion (my wife is one of them) however saying that just because you don't like it everyone should have to follow your beliefs is non-sense. I think that anyone that can't support a child should be unable to have kids or if they do they are either given to people who want them and can support them or they be aborted. Now many do not share my view but none the less I believe in it so should I if elected try to make everyone do it my way? NO, because it is not for the greater good. Govt is usually suppose to act in the best interest of the population.

    I also get a kick out of people who want a woman to keep a pregnancy no matter what even though they want to destroy our social safety net, or they keep saying that people on food stamps, medicaid, welfare, assistance (you name it) are dragging down our system. Well if abortions were illegal then not only would there be more woman being hurt and going to the ER's, you would have a even larger portion of the country on these programs. So that means even more money being used to support them. Now it is proven than woman who are more educated have less children, than people who are not. So now you are taking away a woman's right to decide when they can have a family and when not too, which leads to many other problems. Basically the only people who should have any say in legality of abortions should be woman. Men shouldn't be in the equation.



    You are wrong on that for we all are responsible for what is done to any, rich or poor, wise or dumb, young or old all is to us as people has this responsibility been laid. We as a people are responsible for our all of our fellow mankind be it woman or man, there is no difference.
    I will pray for God to open your eyes that you may see the truth my friend.
    A life is begun when the sperm meets the egg and they become as one, a child in the making to be sure, but a child none the less!
    Have you ever held your hand upon the belly of a pregnant woman and felt movement therein?
    Life in all of it's glory!
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    RBeckom:
    phobicsquirrel:
    RBeckom:
    phobicsquirrel: What I will say is that most of the people on the anti abortion anti choice movement usually side with the "small" government crowd. Now really how small is govt when it is making woman keep a pregnancy? That seems like it's far reaching


    Murder is murder no matter when it occurs!
    If you had a wife and she became pregnant and it pleased you, yet a man struck her in the belly while robbing her and the child within her died, would not even YOU in your heart want for to seek vengeance and grieve for your child?
    Blood is not only spilt unto the ground but also in the operating room and the one's who do murder Gods Children while still in the womb are still held accountable for they're actions when they be Judged.
    As I said, the world is full of false profit's!
    Believe or not and still you WILL be Judged as are all!
    First, again with this "small govt" thing. Like you said anti abortionists usually are on his "small govt" ride however only when it suits their needs. So allowing a woman to control her own body (either through birth control pills or abortions) is wrong thus govt needs to say YOU can't. But the govt say, keeping people from buying assault weapons is over stepping? So guns are out of the pervu of the govt to control but the govt can control a woman's body? Also the same crowed seems to either be fine with or keep voting for people who love war and thus allow hundreds of thousands of people to die as well as kill our economic structure. Also they love pollutants as they keep allowing these dangerous toxins to seep into our air, land, and water (I'll give you that the democratic party isn't exactly clean on this). They also want to push a govt ID card on anyone who wants to vote although in a lot of areas it is hard to get because of the way the dmv's are handled and or people don't have the time or means to get one.

    The difference being if my wife and I decide to terminate a pregnancy it is her choice first and mine second. Mainly because, she's deciding or her doctor advises it for what ever reason. I personally do not think a fetus is a baby, however my wife does. Now if she was attacked and the fetus would be destroyed then I would want vengeance as not only was my wife attacked but she now has had an unwanted termination of her fetus. So there is a huge difference there.

    Now I do know plenty of people who are against abortion (my wife is one of them) however saying that just because you don't like it everyone should have to follow your beliefs is non-sense. I think that anyone that can't support a child should be unable to have kids or if they do they are either given to people who want them and can support them or they be aborted. Now many do not share my view but none the less I believe in it so should I if elected try to make everyone do it my way? NO, because it is not for the greater good. Govt is usually suppose to act in the best interest of the population.

    I also get a kick out of people who want a woman to keep a pregnancy no matter what even though they want to destroy our social safety net, or they keep saying that people on food stamps, medicaid, welfare, assistance (you name it) are dragging down our system. Well if abortions were illegal then not only would there be more woman being hurt and going to the ER's, you would have a even larger portion of the country on these programs. So that means even more money being used to support them. Now it is proven than woman who are more educated have less children, than people who are not. So now you are taking away a woman's right to decide when they can have a family and when not too, which leads to many other problems. Basically the only people who should have any say in legality of abortions should be woman. Men shouldn't be in the equation.



    You are wrong on that for we all are responsible for what is done to any, rich or poor, wise or dumb, young or old all is to us as people has this responsibility been laid. We as a people are responsible for our all of our fellow mankind be it woman or man, there is no difference.
    I will pray for God to open your eyes that you may see the truth my friend.
    A life is begun when the sperm meets the egg and they become as one, a child in the making to be sure, but a child none the less!
    Have you ever held your hand upon the belly of a pregnant woman and felt movement therein?
    Life in all of it's glory!
    Thank you for your kind words, much appreciated. I do want to put out there though that your belief is that life begins when a sperm meets the egg, however where do you get that? I mean the bible mentions life begins at first breath, so I know it wasn't from the bible. Also science has ruled that out as well so I really don't know where you get it from. Like I said before instilling one's own beliefs on millions or more or less to justify a belief and or an idea that does not benefit people is wrong. Like it or not if you are a small govt believer (as I am) then telling a person what they can't do with their body is wrong and is not small govt.
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    The Bible states that when a man lye's with a woman and she conceives a child will be brought forth from this conception.
    Prove me wrong on that and I will believe what you say.
    Until then I will believe that a life is begun at the moment of conception.
    You did not answer my question.
    Have you ever laid your hand across the belly of a pregnant woman and felt the LIFE therein?
    As for science, read about what happens from the moment of conception to the birth of a child then you will know the truth for yourself.
    Before even skin covers the flesh A brain and the spinal Colum starts to form along with the eyes that as of yet cannot see.
    Later movement then starts as the child starts to explore it's surroundings.
    It is aware and it explores, that is why we feel the child move within the belly of the pregnant woman.
    As your science is to you, my belief is to me.
    Let us part from this discussion now lest we become enemies over our beliefs.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    RBeckom:
    The Bible states that when a man lye's with a woman and she conceives a child will be brought forth from this conception.
    Prove me wrong on that and I will believe what you say.
    Until then I will believe that a life is begun at the moment of conception.
    You did not answer my question.
    Have you ever laid your hand across the belly of a pregnant woman and felt the LIFE therein?
    As for science, read about what happens from the moment of conception to the birth of a child then you will know the truth for yourself.
    Before even skin covers the flesh A brain and the spinal Colum starts to form along with the eyes that as of yet cannot see.
    Later movement then starts as the child starts to explore it's surroundings.
    It is aware and it explores, that is why we feel the child move within the belly of the pregnant woman.
    As your science is to you, my belief is to me.
    Let us part from this discussion now lest we become enemies over our beliefs.
    yeah both my cousins and some of my wife's family. I don't think just because we both are on two different paths we should become enemies over it. We just have to lines of thought on it.
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    RBeckom:
    The Bible states that when a man lye's with a woman and she conceives a child will be brought forth from this conception.
    Prove me wrong on that and I will believe what you say.
    Until then I will believe that a life is begun at the moment of conception.
    You did not answer my question.
    Have you ever laid your hand across the belly of a pregnant woman and felt the LIFE therein?
    As for science, read about what happens from the moment of conception to the birth of a child then you will know the truth for yourself.
    Before even skin covers the flesh A brain and the spinal Colum starts to form along with the eyes that as of yet cannot see.
    Later movement then starts as the child starts to explore it's surroundings.
    It is aware and it explores, that is why we feel the child move within the belly of the pregnant woman.
    As your science is to you, my belief is to me.
    Let us part from this discussion now lest we become enemies over our beliefs.
    yeah both my cousins and some of my wife's family. I don't think just because we both are on two different paths we should become enemies over it. We just have to lines of thought on it.



    Then I say it is done and we yet remain friends as God is my Witness.
  • raisindotraisindot BostonPosts: 1,308 ✭✭✭
    I'm willing to buy the argument that life begins at conception.

    But so what? That life is no more complex than that of an amoeba, and we kill billions of ameobas every day just by washing our hands.

    For a certain period of time, a fetus is no more sophisticated or intelligent than a chicken embryo. Yet, most people have no problem killing chicken embryos.

    So, I don't buy the argument that anything even remotely resembling sentient human life begins at conception. Where the chicken-like embryo suddenly develops a level of human-like intelligence or sentience beyond that of poultry is beyond my scientific knowledge. As far as I'm concerned, any abortion should be permitted for any reason up until that point, and abortions should be allowed beyond that point in cases of rape or when the mother's life is in danger.

    I thoroughly understand the points of view of those who are against abortion (even though I disagree with them), but when those voicing these opinions start bringing religion into it I stop listening. Considering that all deities in most religions condoned and often encouraged the killing of innocent people, and that most religious institutions condoned the killing of innocent people who weren't of their faith,I find religious-based anti-abortion arguments to lack credibility. If you're against abortion because you think it's the act of taking a human life, fine.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    raisindot:
    I'm willing to buy the argument that life begins at conception.

    But so what? That life is no more complex than that of an amoeba, and we kill billions of ameobas every day just by washing our hands.

    For a certain period of time, a fetus is no more sophisticated or intelligent than a chicken embryo. Yet, most people have no problem killing chicken embryos.

    So, I don't buy the argument that anything even remotely resembling sentient human life begins at conception. Where the chicken-like embryo suddenly develops a level of human-like intelligence or sentience beyond that of poultry is beyond my scientific knowledge. As far as I'm concerned, any abortion should be permitted for any reason up until that point, and abortions should be allowed beyond that point in cases of rape or when the mother's life is in danger.

    I thoroughly understand the points of view of those who are against abortion (even though I disagree with them), but when those voicing these opinions start bringing religion into it I stop listening. Considering that all deities in most religions condoned and often encouraged the killing of innocent people, and that most religious institutions condoned the killing of innocent people who weren't of their faith,I find religious-based anti-abortion arguments to lack credibility. If you're against abortion because you think it's the act of taking a human life, fine.
    Nicely put, better than how I have been saying it I guess. One thing though, humans are above animals so killing a animal is fine.
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    raisindot:
    I'm willing to buy the argument that life begins at conception.

    But so what? That life is no more complex than that of an amoeba, and we kill billions of ameobas every day just by washing our hands.

    For a certain period of time, a fetus is no more sophisticated or intelligent than a chicken embryo. Yet, most people have no problem killing chicken embryos.

    So, I don't buy the argument that anything even remotely resembling sentient human life begins at conception. Where the chicken-like embryo suddenly develops a level of human-like intelligence or sentience beyond that of poultry is beyond my scientific knowledge. As far as I'm concerned, any abortion should be permitted for any reason up until that point, and abortions should be allowed beyond that point in cases of rape or when the mother's life is in danger.

    I thoroughly understand the points of view of those who are against abortion (even though I disagree with them), but when those voicing these opinions start bringing religion into it I stop listening. Considering that all deities in most religions condoned and often encouraged the killing of innocent people, and that most religious institutions condoned the killing of innocent people who weren't of their faith,I find religious-based anti-abortion arguments to lack credibility. If you're against abortion because you think it's the act of taking a human life, fine.
    Nicely put, better than how I have been saying it I guess. One thing though, humans are above animals so killing a animal is fine.


    :-)
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,771 ✭✭✭
    Less govt in business and insurance, but a throcratic dictatorship involving a women's honey pot and whenever [email protected] wanna get married-------the republican plank for 2016.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,771 ✭✭✭
    Pardon my aggression or incivility there....it is meant at no one here at all I assure you, just a long day of work today------- and as the right gets tired of "my" lefties......it goes both ways.
  • perkinkeperkinke Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭
    This is one of those conversations that always fascinates me for our inability to speak the same language, even though part of the language component is the same category but different angle. Many of the opponents speak in terms of religious morality, rejecting any other perspective. Many of the proponents speak in terms of legalisic morality and often explicitly reject the religious perspective. It makes it fascinating because really, those are the only two avenues for this discussion. Oh sure, both sides will rope science in at some point but this is not a question science can answer, it is entirely a philosophical/legal discussion. While there are some facts that science can supply, the importance or meaning of those items are open for either side to interpret or assign value to.
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    raisindot:
    I'm willing to buy the argument that life begins at conception.

    But so what? That life is no more complex than that of an amoeba, and we kill billions of ameobas every day just by washing our hands.

    For a certain period of time, a fetus is no more sophisticated or intelligent than a chicken embryo. Yet, most people have no problem killing chicken embryos.

    So, I don't buy the argument that anything even remotely resembling sentient human life begins at conception. Where the chicken-like embryo suddenly develops a level of human-like intelligence or sentience beyond that of poultry is beyond my scientific knowledge. As far as I'm concerned, any abortion should be permitted for any reason up until that point, and abortions should be allowed beyond that point in cases of rape or when the mother's life is in danger.

    I thoroughly understand the points of view of those who are against abortion (even though I disagree with them), but when those voicing these opinions start bringing religion into it I stop listening. Considering that all deities in most religions condoned and often encouraged the killing of innocent people, and that most religious institutions condoned the killing of innocent people who weren't of their faith,I find religious-based anti-abortion arguments to lack credibility. If you're against abortion because you think it's the act of taking a human life, fine.



    An Amoeba is a singular cell organism where as the human life after conception is a multistage organism.
    You may wash ONE off your hands if you are so inclined to cast your seed upon the ground.
    But I assure you, unless your a so called doctor willing to tear a small human limb from limb and head from torso, then you my friend, have NOT washed your hands of the life in which you try to speak!
  • RBeckomRBeckom Home or out and about somewhere.Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭
    A riddle for all the ages and will always be true no matter what you believe.


    What has two hands, two arms and further more two feet and two legs?
    A head with a torso and none of the parts meet one another?




    An aborted baby lying torn apart on a metal pan in the operating room of a monster!
    Watch a video of an abortion and then tell me that was not life destroyed!
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