Guns/Ammo
alienmisprint
Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭
I don't know why, but it seems like the majority of cigar smokers are into firearms as well. I figured this would be a pretty good place to pose some questions.
Right now, I have a Ruger Security Six .357 with a 4" barrel, a Springfield XD full size .40, a Remington 870 tactical with a 2 round extension and Shurshot stock on it, and an old Remington 870 hunting shotgun (my dad's old shotgun). I am probably going to end up getting a short-barrel .357 or .38 for the wife, and either a short barrel .357/.38 for myself or another .40. I want to get either a 30/30 lever action or a compound bow as well.
I want to get together a stock of "if-***-hits-the-fan" ammo. I know there is not going to be a zombie apocalypse or another civil war or whatever, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and have a stock of ammo for just in case. This ammo would not be touched, just kept on-hand at all times. Any time I want to go to the range, I would grab new boxes for that. I also will keep a separate stock of defense ammo (about 30 rounds of #4 buckshot for the shotguns, about 60 rounds ofLiberty Defense 60grain for the .40, etc)
Anyways, here are the questions:
1) How much ammo would you say is a decent amount for each firearm? One of my main reasons for keeping with the .357/.38 and/or .40 is to minimize the types of ammunition I need to stock. Keep in mind, if an issue ever did arise where my family needed to be able to go on the road or leave our home for whatever reason, transporting the ammo would be an issue, so "as much as you have room for" probably isn't the right answer.
2) What type of ammo would you stock? For the shotgun, I was thinking a split of 00 buckshot and #4 shot would be good, as that would allow me to hunt just about anything and also be effective at defense. For the pistol ammo, I am a fan of Hornady and Federal, but if *** goes down, would you really care if its a slow expanding hollowpoint vs a flat-nose Remington round? So long as the ammo is decent quality that won't misfire on you, is that good, or would you really want the better quality stuff?
3) Closely related to number 2, would you do a split of .357 mag or just stock .38 +P? Either is fine for taking down people, but you can hunt and shoot through cover with a .357. The down side is that in an actual firefight, the .357 is a little slower due to the recovery time from each shot, whereas you can pop off .38 +P accurately about as quickly as you can pull the trigger in my Security Six. I'll pretty much always have a couple of boxes of .357 on-hand, but I mean as far as the if-***-hits-the-fan stock.
4) Would you go with a 30/30 or a bow? I used to shoot on the archery team in high school, and even though it has been quite a while since I have shot a bow, I'm pretty sure I could knock the rust off and be decently effective with one with a little practice. The main factor for me here is the reusable ammo. A few dozen shafts and heads with a bow will last considerably longer than a couple hundred rounds of 30/30 ammo, especially taking into consideration target practice. The 30/30 would be more effective, but considering the pistols and shotguns, would the bow be a more practical choice? Of course, it is also easier to transport and carry the 30/30, so maybe it would be a better option?
Just looking for different opinions here. Cost is a factor as well, trying to keep all the ammo (plus a few other things like speedloaders, cleaning kit, extra mags, etc) under $1200 or so.
Right now, I have a Ruger Security Six .357 with a 4" barrel, a Springfield XD full size .40, a Remington 870 tactical with a 2 round extension and Shurshot stock on it, and an old Remington 870 hunting shotgun (my dad's old shotgun). I am probably going to end up getting a short-barrel .357 or .38 for the wife, and either a short barrel .357/.38 for myself or another .40. I want to get either a 30/30 lever action or a compound bow as well.
I want to get together a stock of "if-***-hits-the-fan" ammo. I know there is not going to be a zombie apocalypse or another civil war or whatever, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and have a stock of ammo for just in case. This ammo would not be touched, just kept on-hand at all times. Any time I want to go to the range, I would grab new boxes for that. I also will keep a separate stock of defense ammo (about 30 rounds of #4 buckshot for the shotguns, about 60 rounds ofLiberty Defense 60grain for the .40, etc)
Anyways, here are the questions:
1) How much ammo would you say is a decent amount for each firearm? One of my main reasons for keeping with the .357/.38 and/or .40 is to minimize the types of ammunition I need to stock. Keep in mind, if an issue ever did arise where my family needed to be able to go on the road or leave our home for whatever reason, transporting the ammo would be an issue, so "as much as you have room for" probably isn't the right answer.
2) What type of ammo would you stock? For the shotgun, I was thinking a split of 00 buckshot and #4 shot would be good, as that would allow me to hunt just about anything and also be effective at defense. For the pistol ammo, I am a fan of Hornady and Federal, but if *** goes down, would you really care if its a slow expanding hollowpoint vs a flat-nose Remington round? So long as the ammo is decent quality that won't misfire on you, is that good, or would you really want the better quality stuff?
3) Closely related to number 2, would you do a split of .357 mag or just stock .38 +P? Either is fine for taking down people, but you can hunt and shoot through cover with a .357. The down side is that in an actual firefight, the .357 is a little slower due to the recovery time from each shot, whereas you can pop off .38 +P accurately about as quickly as you can pull the trigger in my Security Six. I'll pretty much always have a couple of boxes of .357 on-hand, but I mean as far as the if-***-hits-the-fan stock.
4) Would you go with a 30/30 or a bow? I used to shoot on the archery team in high school, and even though it has been quite a while since I have shot a bow, I'm pretty sure I could knock the rust off and be decently effective with one with a little practice. The main factor for me here is the reusable ammo. A few dozen shafts and heads with a bow will last considerably longer than a couple hundred rounds of 30/30 ammo, especially taking into consideration target practice. The 30/30 would be more effective, but considering the pistols and shotguns, would the bow be a more practical choice? Of course, it is also easier to transport and carry the 30/30, so maybe it would be a better option?
Just looking for different opinions here. Cost is a factor as well, trying to keep all the ammo (plus a few other things like speedloaders, cleaning kit, extra mags, etc) under $1200 or so.
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Comments
The main reason I was saying a 30/30 or a bow is the cost. I already have firearms enough for "if *** hits the fan", but I would like a rifle as well for longer range stuff than the shotgun or pistol can accurately hit. The 30/30 has always been my favorite all-around rifle, its just good for about anything. I don't get the range with the bow, but the reusable ammo seems very appealing. I probably will end up going with both though, lol. Honestly man, I didn't even realize Mossberg made a 30/30. I just googled it, and yeah man, that's a pretty sweet piece. Do you know if it ejects from the top like the Winchesters? I always hated that about them, I was looking at going with a Marlin. I don't mind wood stocks too bad, but I do prefer synthetics. It looks like you would almost have to wear gloves with the SPX, though, seems like that front bottom rail would tear your hand up if you didn't. 30/30 don't have too much kick, but its definitely more than a 5.56.
And dude, thank you for turning me on to slickguns.com! They have the Liberty Civil Defense .40 ammo I was going to order for $30 for a box of 100. I was looking at it on Midway at $22 per box of 20. Hell yeah! I was planning on grabbing about 3 boxes (20 count) of it and stocking up on cheap Remington flat-nose rounds, but at that price, I can stock it cheaper than the Remington; that's awesome man.
And yeah, I absolutely love the Shurshot. I kept the factory fore-end, but the stock is amazing. I wanted to get a pistol grip but still wanted a sturdy shoulder rest, and it really is the best of both worlds.
Ever think of reloading? Simple reloaders are available from most any pawn shop, craigslist. I can reload 100 rounds of 45 Hornady XPS loads for 30ish$ 100 rounds of 12 gauge 00 for 55ish$ 100 rounds of 223 Hornady Z-max for 20ish$ and 100 rounds of 30-06 Nosler custom comp for 35ish$. If you have been checking prices, you know how much cheaper that can be.
How many do you need?????? How many cigars does one need? I feel.....the more the better. I have 1000 rounds of 45, 500 rounds of 00 and slugs, working on 1000 rounds of 223, and 500 rounds of 30-06 with enough components to pretty close double that.
Note...... I am not crazy nor a fanatic, I just like to shoot. On any given weekend I will go through 500 rounds at the range, just so I can spend the next week reloading.......Its therapeutic for me. A hobby.
I like to simplify my guns and the rounds I keep. I have 2- 12 gauge shot guns I hunt with, and a 12 gauge full race home defense 870 (built it myself). I have 2- 45 pistols, one for home defense, and one for CC that I also carry in my truck. I have a 223 bolt action that I shoot praire dogs and Zombies at very long range. And I have a 30-06 that I can shoot dang neer anything else at super long range.
Oh yeah, a 22 rifle and pistol, both target grade and a few thousand rounds.
I like the 30/30 idea, but have you thought of buying a 357 lever action instead? Sweet litte gun that will reach out to 100/150 yards. Again, you just saved buying different ammo. Another idea instead of a 30/30 is a 223. I have a bolt action Mossberg that takes AR clips. If the *** hits the fan, 223 ammo will be the easiest to find and reload.
Im not a bow guy, but I would be a crossbow kinda guy if I could find one for the right price.
Ill post up a couple pictures of my babies when I get a chance. Hope this helped!
I gave reloading some thought, but I just don't think its for me. I figure that if SHTF, reloading supplies would be just about as hard to come by as ammo itself, so it doesn't seem like something that would be a safer bet for that. It is obviously more cost effective, but to me it would be more a chore than something I would enjoy doing, and since I don't really shoot much, after I got my stockpile where I wanted it, I probably wouldn't use the gear much.
As far as how much I would need, I do agree the more the better, if its a scenario of buckling down and defending my home. But if we need to go on the move for whatever reason you can't exactly lug around 5,000 rounds for each weapon. I was leaning towards about 500 rounds per piece. A full combat load is 210 rounds, I definitely want more than that. I think I can fit 500 rounds each of .40, .38+P, and 12ga in a single bag and go with it. Probably also 500 rounds of 30/30 or .223. Looking at an aviator's kit bag to keep it all in, if you know what that is.
I have the same mindset as you as far as keeping the ammo simple. I'm really more of a revolver guy, but that Springfield XD is really nice. I prefer .45, but ended up going with .40 in case the wife ever wanted/needed to shoot it. I feel like the comprise is worth it, and the .40 is still an adequate round. The Security Six is a fantastic revolver, and .357 is hands-down my favorite cartridge. I always wanted a Python, but damn man, they are expensive. With the .357, it allows me to stock .38+P ammo for it and for my wife. She will probably be getting a Saturday night special in the near future. That's also more than likely what I will get my daughters when they are old enough. For the shotgun ammo, looking at doing a 250/250 split between 00 buck and 4 shot, with around 30-60 rounds of Hevi-Shot home defense #4 buck.
I have toyed with the idea of getting an AR. Mainly due to my comfort with them, as I have been shooting M16s and M4s for over 15 years now. I know I can reliably hit targets at 200-250 meters with iron sites, and be somewhat effective a little further out than that. The main thing there is the cost. A decent AR is going to run around $800-1000. I hadn't thought about just going with a .223, that might be an option. Any recommendation on a good semi-auto maker that accepts AR mags? Just did a quick google search for a few, do you know anything about the Ruger Mini-14? Looks like it would be a decent choice, do you know if it accepts AR mags?
I am sure at some point I will end up picking up a simple Ruger .22 rifle. Its what I plan on starting my daughters off with when we feel they are ready to start learning about guns and to shoot. They really aren't a bad survival rifle either, they can take down small game and even people, in a pinch.
Its funny you mentioned the .357 lever action rifle, one of my good friend's grandfather had one and I always thought it was cool as hell. They are on the pricey side, though, and since I plan on stocking .38+P ammo for my revolver, it would still require another ammo type. Of course, I would be able to shoot that ammo out of my revolver also, so it wouldn't be a total separation. I kind of weighed it out with the .357 and the 30/30, it just seems like the 30/30 would be the way to go. It is a much more effective round, and the benefit of the .357 ammo being usable in the revolver just doesn't seem to justify the extra cost of the rifle. The .223 on the other hand, may be the way to go.
I always loved the 30-06 too, excellent rifle. But I don't know how much range I really need, and to keep things simple, I was really looking to stick with iron sites on everything. I know you can run iron sites on the '06, but then what's the point? The 30/30 or .223 will do just as good of a job at the
For the bow, I used to be on my high school's archery team, but that was over 15 years ago. Not that I was great or anything back then, but I was familiar with the bow and relatively effective with it. Even with that time gap, I am sure I could pick it up again fairly quickly. I weighed out the crossbow/bow debate, and for me it seems like a regular compound bow is the winner. I would go with a crossbow if it was just for hunting purposes, since you are generally only going to get one shot anyways. But if it comes down to defending yourself from the zombie horde or looters or whatever else, a compound bow is MUCH faster. Its also good for hunting, so I just feel that's its more versatile.
I am a Mossberg guy, love what they have done for the price you pay. They make a AR in either a fixed stock hunting or a full assault rifle. Nice thing about them, the price.
DPMS makes a nice AR in a lot of configurations, check them out. I use and buy most of my toys on gunbroker, If your not in a hurry, you can usually come up with exactly what your looking for.
Glad to hear that the XD is a keeper, I am eyeing one right now in the slim frame for a CC. I have been shooting Taurus for the last 15 years and love them, just like the look and feel of the XDS.
The pic below is my babies. The one closest is my bolt action 223 with a 14 power E1 Burris scope.......... she's a shooter. And the one behind is the 30-06 with a 20 power E1 Burris scope and a muzzle break.
It probably is worth stocking at least a few slugs for the 12 gauge, but how bad is the kick? I want to be able to fire the rounds relatively quickly, wasn't sure how bad the recovery is on a slug.
And yeah, you won't be sorry with the XD. Like I said, I am a revolver guy through and through, but the XD is one of those guns that can change your opinion on a whole class of firearms. Before I fired it, I would have picked my Security Six (or most any well-made .357 mag) over any semi for just about every scenario. Since owning the XD, its much more of a toss-up. There is a SMALL chance that I would want to get myself a compact .40 instead of a short barrel .357/.38 for CC when I get my tattoo shop up and running; if I do go that route, it will definitely be another XD. I have owned a Glock 21C and a Ruger full sized .45, the XD blows both of them out of the water. I've never fired any of Taurus's semis, but I did have a Raging Bull .454 Casull that I loved. Out of all the different guns I've owned, that is the only one I wish I had never gotten rid of.
Nice rifles, btw.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=374115991
At last count i have 11 handguns, 5 shotguns, 4 bolt action, 3 ar's(2 223 abd a 308) and a lever action. I have a wierd thing of having 2 of each caliber(except the s&w 500, thats just absurd) and for each gun i have about 1000 rounds of ammo for SHTF. I also reload, heavily. www.gunbot.net most awesome site for all things cheap ammo, it refreshes every 10 seconds and searches the web for you for cheap ammo. Aside from cigars, guns and reloading is my biggest hobby. If youre looking for a 30-30, let me know, may be parting with mine(brand new never fired too)
EDIT: just re-read your post, i would get into reloading because post sandy hook it tok me...i **** you not...7 months to get any primers and close to a year to get any powder...ammo and reloading supplies FLEW off the shelves and there were lines just to get a 2 box maximum at walmart every thursday at 8 pm. it's amzing how fast ammo can get scarce at best. Hence the reason i keep so much of it around. better to have and not need... plus you can always sell or trade it for stuff.
@Vinnie: Man, I was thinking about getting a 30/30, but I think I have leaned more towards the AR now. I could maybe be persuaded to get both, though, lol. Is it a Marlin?
As far as reloading, I hear you on the ammo scarcity. You couldn't get .40 ammo in Killeen at all for months, had to show up at Academy on Friday (when they got their shipments in) and wait in line to just be able to buy 1 box at a time. I still don't know if reloading is for me, though. Like I said, I'm not really into blowing through rounds on the weekend, so when I do want to go and shoot, I can just pick up a few boxes for the range. Once I get my stock up to where I want it, I wouldn't really have any use for the reloading equipment, plus I really don't have anywhere I could do it in the place I am renting right now. I found a smoking deal on some .40 ammo, so I will probably have about 1,000 rounds of .40 and 1,000 rounds of 5.56 as soon as I order it, looking at about 500 rounds of .38 +P for now, and around 600 rounds for the 12ga. I will probably end up bringing all the counts up to 1,000 eventually, which I think will suite my needs fine.
1. 1,000 rounds per gun
2. I just buy whatever is on sale. Practice more. Round nose, flat, hollow, dont matter if you miss.
3. I use only 38 in my Smith Revolver
4. Get an AR and 1,000 rounds
That's a 3.25" group, that's why I like reloading.........
For you AR-savvy BOTL, is there any downside to buying the upper and lower receivers separately? It seems like you can come out $100 or so cheaper doing it this way, same manufacturer and all.
+1. All of my AR's are pieced together from BCM, Stag, Bushmaster, Young Manufacturing etc... You can make a better quality customized rifle for less if not damn close to the cost of a complete rig. The more assembly you do yourself the cheaper it is and you can build a lower in about 15 minutes.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/522833/del-ton-m4-moe-carbine-kit-ar-15-556x45mm-nato-1-in-9-twist-16-barrel-upper-assembly-lower-parts-kit-magpul-moe-handguard-pistol-grip-and-collapsible-buttstock-flat-dark-earth-pre-ban
I can get a stripped Del-Ton lower assembly for about $100, then all I would need is my rear site, from what I have seen I'd be looking at $60-70 for that. So, about $740 total. Does that seem like a good deal to you guys?