How bad are storage temperature fluctuations?

Bob_Luken

How bad is it for coolidors to be in an environment where the temps can slowly fluctuate from high 60s to low 50s?

Yesterday I needed to move my coolers and I put them in a basement storage area under the house. I would like to keep the coolers there. It is an unheated space but there are insulated heating ducts routed through the space that radiate at least some heat. I've got thermometers set up to monitor almost everything. Overnight it got down into the mid 20s outside. Inside the space it got down to 52.8*. The interior of the one monitored cooler dropped to 57* down from it's starting temp of 62*. So, I'm guessing the temps in this basement space will be fluctuating from high 60s to low 50s throughout the winter. So far these sticks have been kept indoors in a downstairs room at temps between. 65* and 70*. Should I bring them back inside asap? Or is this not gonna hurt them?

jgibv

A quote from Dr. Kuzi from this thread: http://cigar.com/cs/forums/thread/353590.aspx

kuzi16:

50 isnt even that bad for cigars.

however, you can fix this by doing two things:

1) pus a fan ni there to circulate the air. this will even out the temp a bit.
install your own thermostat. one that will keep the top at 70 and the bottem at 55-60 (id still keep the fan in there)

Similar thread here: http://cigar.com/cs/forums/thread/16863.aspx
And more discussion here: http://cigar.com/cs/forums/thread/27409.aspx
& here: http://cigar.com/cs/forums/thread/515597.aspx


Do not worry so much my friend ... continue smoking your cigars and as long as they are smoking to your liking then everything is good and fine.
If they start burning weird or tasting funny on a consistent basis then there's probably trouble afoot, and that trouble is most likely caused by humidity or temperature issues. And these problems can almost always be fixed, and the cigars can slowly be restored....

Unless you leave the cigars out in the open, unhumidified for months on end --- not much you can do to can fix that.

Bob_Luken

Thanks for those links John. I read each one. Seems like I need to keep an eye on my RH. My concern is still the fluctuations in temps between daytime and night. But I'm hoping that the well insulated coolers should even it out some and slow down the temp swings. I'm gonna monitor the temp swings and check the RH after a few days and see how it goes.

jgibv

Bob Luken:

Thanks for those links John. I read each one. Seems like I need to keep an eye on my RH. My concern is still the fluctuations in temps between daytime and night. But I'm hoping that the well insulated coolers should even it out some and slow down the temp swings. I'm gonna monitor the temp swings and check the RH after a few days and see how it goes.

Glad the links helped --- yes RH is more important than temp.

I keep mine in the basement, it gets chilly in the winter and the humis/cooler dip into the lower 60s. But it's always a gradual change. Cooler (and humi for that matter) seems to do a good job at insulating.

I've noticed at the lower temps I do have to recharge the beads/gel/etc more often, think 1/3 weeks instead of 1/6-8 weeks --- but as long as the RH is in the mid-60s, I'm happy because the cigars still smoke fine for me.

Smart idea to keep a close eye on them for the first week or two ..... if you get to a point where they're not smoking how you like them then definitely bring them back inside. And if you just can't keep the RH up (due to the low temp) you could try to add more humidity devices (beads, boveda, etc) but I wouldn't recommend that route because it most likely will not be a good long-term solution.
Good luck

Martel

I think you're fine in that range.

bigharpoon

I think you're fine in that range, too. Cigars absorb humidity slowly so they don't fluctuate nearly as quickly as your hygro changes. Those temps are fine and I'm guessing your cigars are somewhere on the average between your swings which also is fine. My coolers jump around too since I live such a rustic lifestyle and don't have much environment control in my house. Cigars are tough, they'll be fine as long as the rh doesn't stay too high for too long.

Cigary

It's the RH that you want to worry about...excess fluctuations in this category can be life and death to cigars. Outside temps are only a worry when the the extremes go from 70 at the most and then within a day or so they hit in the 40's...that's not good either. You want to keep your extremes lessened..no more of a variance of 15 degrees up or down otherwise the wrappers tends to shrink and bloat and the more times the variance happens the more of a danger it is.

Bob_Luken

So far the temps I've recorded inside the cooler have swung no more than 5 degrees and the RH has changed no more than 4 points. I'm feeling pretty good about keeping them there throughout the winter.

Cigary

Yep....those aren't really negative numbers...pretty normal from what I see.

Echambers

One of the biggest things to worry about (which seems not to be the case in your situation) is the combination of dramatic changes in humidity and temperature. High humidity and low temperatures can swell the sticks and cause them to tear. That, generally speaking, is not good :-).

Bob_Luken

Update: We've had a pretty cold couple of days now (40* days and 25* nights, last night was 30*) and temps inside the coolidors are down. The last time I opened the lids to check RH was two days ago and the RH was good at 67% and 68% but the temps have fallen from 62* to 50* over the course of four days. That's a larger swing than I had previously recorded. I'm not expecting the coolidor temps to get any colder because they seem to have leveled off now at about 49.8* and seem to be steady during the last couple of days. My concern now is the 12* swing in temp. Any thoughts on whether I should keep them where they are or give up this idea and bring them back in the main part of the house?

jlmarta

The principal reason to be concerned about the temperature is that tobacco beetles are unable to move around looking for a mate when the temp is below 70 degrees. Above that they're a potential threat to your sticks. If a person is paranoid on this topic they can freeze each new shipment of cigars as they arrive and thereby eliminate the problem. In most cases cigars in bulk are stored in an environment unfriendly to the little buggers but once in a while some infested ones slip through. Keeping your temp at 70 or lower hedges the odds in your favor..... FYI

90+_Irishman

jlmarta:

The principal reason to be concerned about the temperature is that tobacco beetles are unable to move around looking for a mate when the temp is below 70 degrees. Above that they're a potential threat to your sticks. If a person is paranoid on this topic they can freeze each new shipment of cigars as they arrive and thereby eliminate the problem. In most cases cigars in bulk are stored in an environment unfriendly to the little buggers but once in a while some infested ones slip through. Keeping your temp at 70 or lower hedges the odds in your favor..... FYI

Perfect response and awesome info Marty, spot on buddy!

Bob_Luken

90+ Irishman:

jlmarta:

The principal reason to be concerned about the temperature is that tobacco beetles are unable to move around looking for a mate when the temp is below 70 degrees. Above that they're a potential threat to your sticks. If a person is paranoid on this topic they can freeze each new shipment of cigars as they arrive and thereby eliminate the problem. In most cases cigars in bulk are stored in an environment unfriendly to the little buggers but once in a while some infested ones slip through. Keeping your temp at 70 or lower hedges the odds in your favor..... FYI

Perfect response and awesome info Marty, spot on buddy!

Pers Onal

Bob Luken:

Update: Any thoughts on whether I should keep them where they are or give up this idea and bring them back in the main part of the house?

Well, one thing you have to take into consideration is that Relative Humidity is the moisture content relative to the temperature. For discussion only, not a meaningful or researched number, let's assume that cigars stabilized at 65 degrees/65 RH have the same moisture content as cigars stabilized at 70 degrees/60RH - which is probably a reasonable guess although this is only a WAG, with no data of any sort behind it. We use the term RH a good bit, but IMO what we are more concerned with is true moisture content of our cigars. Just so you know that 62Degree/67 RH is a lot different moisture content than 50degree/67 RH. I have also seen where some posters say only RH matters, not temp. you decide. Lately, I have been wondering if in fact temperature swings may cause more problems than we are aware. So, while they might be fine where they are - if it were me, I would bring them back inside for more stable temps. That may also be easier for you to check on them now and then.

jgibv

Bob Luken:

Update: We've had a pretty cold couple of days now (40* days and 25* nights, last night was 30*) and temps inside the coolidors are down. The last time I opened the lids to check RH was two days ago and the RH was good at 67% and 68% but the temps have fallen from 62* to 50* over the course of four days. That's a larger swing than I had previously recorded. I'm not expecting the coolidor temps to get any colder because they seem to have leveled off now at about 49.8* and seem to be steady during the last couple of days. My concern now is the 12* swing in temp. Any thoughts on whether I should keep them where they are or give up this idea and bring them back in the main part of the house?

How are they smoking???

Bob_Luken

jgibv:

Bob Luken:

Update: We've had a pretty cold couple of days now (40* days and 25* nights, last night was 30*) and temps inside the coolidors are down. The last time I opened the lids to check RH was two days ago and the RH was good at 67% and 68% but the temps have fallen from 62* to 50* over the course of four days. That's a larger swing than I had previously recorded. I'm not expecting the coolidor temps to get any colder because they seem to have leveled off now at about 49.8* and seem to be steady during the last couple of days. My concern now is the 12* swing in temp. Any thoughts on whether I should keep them where they are or give up this idea and bring them back in the main part of the house?

How are they smoking???

Thanks for asking. It's been several days of cold temps. The coolidors are keeping temps around 50*. I have only smoked one from those basement coolidors since I put them out there but it was pretty good. I smoked it just last night. It was a Ramon Bueso Genesis. It wasn't quite as good as I remembered the last Genesis tasting but it was still pretty good and I often feel like I'm getting slightly different results from the same cigar anyway, so I guess things are OK.

jgibv

Bob Luken:

jgibv:

Bob Luken:

Update: We've had a pretty cold couple of days now (40* days and 25* nights, last night was 30*) and temps inside the coolidors are down. The last time I opened the lids to check RH was two days ago and the RH was good at 67% and 68% but the temps have fallen from 62* to 50* over the course of four days. That's a larger swing than I had previously recorded. I'm not expecting the coolidor temps to get any colder because they seem to have leveled off now at about 49.8* and seem to be steady during the last couple of days. My concern now is the 12* swing in temp. Any thoughts on whether I should keep them where they are or give up this idea and bring them back in the main part of the house?

How are they smoking???

Thanks for asking. It's been several days of cold temps. The coolidors are keeping temps around 50*. I have only smoked one from those basement coolidors since I put them out there but it was pretty good. I smoked it just last night. It was a Ramon Bueso Genesis. It wasn't quite as good as I remembered the last Genesis tasting but it was still pretty good and I often feel like I'm getting slightly different results from the same cigar anyway, so I guess things are OK.

If they're still smoking good then I'd say you're good.