Kuzi - Re: San Cristobal

bbass2

In the other thread about maduro you mentioned that the San Cristobal is a corojo wrapper. Thanks for the correction btw. What do they do to the wrapper to make it so dark? Just age? I was curious because it seems like most wrappers that dark are processed as a maduro or oscuro and labeled as such.

kuzi16

that is a really great question that points out one of the little eccentricities of the cigar business.
in the cigar business there are no standards.


the San Cristobal is not listed as a maduro. it is listed as a Nicaraguan corojo.
all this really tells me is that it is a Corojo leaf and it was grown in Nicaragua. big freakin deal. what about the fermentation?
any strain of tobacco, weather it be corojo, criollo, etc, can be heavily fermented and made into a maduro. not only that, but there are varying degrees of shade when it comes to maduro. I have seen many cigars that are lighter than the San Cristobal that are called a maduro. I have also seen many cigars that are darker than that that are not considered a maduro. where is the cutoff?

there is no "pin-pointable" cutoff when it comes to color. the real cut off is how it is handled. if it is fermented to make it dark then its a maduro. if it isnt, then its not.

so what did they do to make the wrapper so dark?
since it wasnt considered a maduro by the makers, we can guess that there was no real extra fermentation. my guess is that it is an upper priming leaf that was sun grown. both of these factors could make a leaf darker without "extra" fermentation. of course there is no proof of this theory. I would have to ask DPG himself (or someone that processes that specific tobacco) to find out for sure.

bbass2

Cool, thanks for the explanation.

PAtoNH

Kuzi, since you're in "explanation mode", can you give me a primer on the differences of types of maduros? I dig El Rey del Mundo Oscuro cigars… how does an Oscuro differ from other maduros? Another favorite is La Perla Habana which has a Brazilian Arapiraca maduro wrapper… a great everyday smoke for maduro lovers IMO. In your experience, does the fermentation process mask or enhance the individual qualities of the wrapper… that is, are maduros "more alike" as a class, regardless of wrapper type as compared to non-fermented wrappers? Thanks! - Mike

Ken_Light

Maybe you should start an "Ask Professor Kuzi" thread...I know I'd read it.

kuzi16

PAtoNH:

Kuzi, since you're in "explanation mode", can you give me a primer on the differences of types of maduros?

are you looking for this by country or for different levels of fermentation. they both have much to do with the flavors. but what it all comes down to is that the more you ferment the tobacco the softer and sweeter it will become until the point where it can no longer be used because it is to fragile.

PAtoNH:

how does an Oscuro differ from other maduros?

An oscuro is not the same thing as a maduro at all. but often they look the same.

an oscuro leaf is actually a leaf that is left on the plant an extra 50% longer. (medio tiempo). This allows the leaf to get as many nutrients out of the stalk and sun as it can. often it begins to cure on the plant. these leaves tend to get extra fermentation to calm them down and bring out those sugars. however, i have seen oscuro wrappers that are not black like the name "oscuro" would imply.
an example of this is the Nestor Miranda Collection Special selection Oscuro. that id absolutely a rich brown not a dark brown or black but it is still an oscuro leaf.

PAtoNH:

In your experience, does the fermentation process mask or enhance the individual qualities of the wrapper… that is, are maduros "more alike" as a class, regardless of wrapper type as compared to non-fermented wrappers?

yes and no.

they are all pushed in a direction. sweeter, and milder. this doesnt mean they all are sweet and mild. take a maduro and wrap it around a ton of ligero and you will end up something more like the Cain. its a stronger cigar. and that cigar is nothing like the Davidoff Maduro in any way. Maduro is just more fermentation. there will be just as much difference in a Nicaraguan maduro vs a honduran maduro as there would be the same leaves just very gently fermented.

PAtoNH

Thank you Kuzi, I appreciate the answers and the thought behind them. I've smoked for many years without much interest or knowledge of the process beyond what I like or don't. When I became interested in cigars in the 1990s during Lew Rothman's heyday I bought by mail order… by sight, price and description from a catalog. While I'd occasionally make it downtown to the original Holt's to shop, most of what I learned was picked up from friends and sharing and trading from their latest buys. The cigar boom drove prices high and quality suffered as manufacturers worked hard to keep up with demand. Nowadays I'm discovering new brands all the time and my old favorites (the non-Cuban-Cuban labels like El Rey del Mudo, R&J, Partagas etc.) sit side by side with my new AJ favorites (Pinolero & San Lotano Habano). I've tried more new cigars since joining this forum than I'd tried in a decade… so thanks to everyone here on the forum the adventure becomes more interesting all the time. Oh, and I think a thread called "Ask Professor Kuzi" would be a winner.