100% true, same with this original post. Misinformation is a dangerous thing. The article is all over the place. The guy has no idea how to write effectively and he's the editor. The beautiful part about all this? The more folks ask about it, the more they realize we are objective, open and honest, while HW isn't. It's brought us more members... In the end, it defaces their name, not ours, which was the opposite of his intention. We don't score cigars.....
IDK dustin --- you seem like a pretty shifty character to me ;-)
Awhile back there were a few main reviewers on our forum...Kuzi, Robbras, Catfish, & maybe enfidel. They all did outstanding reviews. My mouth would be watering to try the latest & greatest stick they reviewed. They may not have the same flavor profiles as I, but all did a good job reviewing sticks. I will never see 50% of what is reviewed in my B&M, and the only way to have a chance to smoke any of the HTF boutique blends is online. That is a fact of life due to business/marketing models. Will a person(reviewer) look more favorably on a company that "treats him right" and gives them free sticks......yes, it is human nature. Do some companys give away more cigars and have a bigger marketing presence in certain segments...yes. Should we fault them for marketing their product correctly?
As a customer, I would ask that a reviewer disclose if the stick was gifted to them for marketing purposes. That way everything is in the open and would avoid controversy.
I didnt think this would cause this much of a stir.
some interesting thoughts here guys. just read the entire thread. here is a few things i have to respond to ...
catfishbluezz:
So the of the 13 blogs he is referring to in this article, only 4 are from CFed. The rest are friends that have their own blogs or websites and are members. If Kuzi was a member of CFed, his bias would also be in question, according to the format of how folks were chosen for this.
that is true. my review blog is on the list they produced as well. interestingly enough, i did have an HoE cigar on my top 5 reviews of 2013.
jgibv:
Lastly --- if all else is equal, is a "free cigar" inherently better than a cigar you "pay for"?
this, i feel, is the real issue. when i started my blog i made an effort to eliminate this view that i may be swayed to like a cigar more because a company butters me up. in my blog page about my blog i have this quote (and its been there from the get go):
"I am not looking for free stuff from cigar companies. I am not looking to get into the business. I am not looking to get paid for my reviews. All of that stuff taints the process. I am looking to constantly increase my personal understanding of cigars and share what I find with anyone that is willing to listen."
that being said, i am still a reviewer. a few companies have come to me (HoE included) and said that they have read my reviews and that they would like for me to review their cigar. every time i have told them that i would be happy to review their cigar as long as it is on my time and it is paid for with my own money. When Gary Griffith sent me cigar anyway i flat out told him that i was not going to review any of those cigars. what made me respect him there as his response to that. he basically said "sweet, im just glad you like cigars"
made me feel good about adding a big "NO REVIEW" sticker to the backs of those sticks.
jgibv:
Re-reading everything, I'm not quite sure I understand the point HW's trying to make in the original post .... like is he trying to start some $hit with you guys on CFed???
Is he trying to call you guys biased towards the H.O.E. products?
Because if so, I think y'all need to have a talk with the HW guys and their premeprimepreme love for DE products -- 92 for a papas fritas, LMFAO ok??
I don't even know....
I dont believe he is trying to start ***. i fee that HW is trying to point out that some statistics may point that way and he is unsure on if it is or not.
catfishbluezz:
In the end, it defaces their name, not ours, which was the opposite of his intention. We don't score cigars.....
im not sure it does. i mean he did say " I do not think that any of the 13 lists placed House of Emilio products higher because of their relationships with these companies" and that is something that you pointed out yourself.
Sasquatch:
As a customer, I would ask that a reviewer disclose if the stick was gifted to them for marketing purposes. That way everything is in the open and would avoid controversy.
i agree with this. i dont disclose on a review by review basis because i state that in other places on my blog. if you read a review by me, it is because i obtained the cigar the way any person with zero connection to the industry would.
What if we got only physically blind people to review? Problem solved?
If you believe in the whole heightened-other-four-senses bit, it might be great. Or it might be a completely unrelatable pallet. Either way, I'm sure I just took that comment wayyyy too seriously.
[silly interjection] Yeah... but it helps to see the burn of the ash, and the volume of smoke, etc. Much better, IMO, to use deaf people for the most impartial reviews. [/silly interjection]
"When I have found intense pain relieved, a weary brain soothed, and calm, refreshing sleep obtained by a cigar, I have felt grateful to God, and have blessed His name." - Charles Haddon Spurgeon
I didnt think this would cause this much of a stir.
Then why'd you post it?
kuzi16:
im not sure it does
You see, when people in the industry post misinformation, it makes them look like politicians, or that they have some sort of agenda... Just like the article, your OP is full of misinformation. When people whom are supposed to be respected individuals in any industry post things in a public format suggesting controversy, they are expected to do their due diligence. When they do not, it discounts their credibility.
This is my last post in this thread. As always, if anyone wants information about CFed, you can always PM me here, or email me at dustin@cigarfederation.com. We have no problem being transparent.
I didnt think this would cause this much of a stir.
some interesting thoughts here guys. just read the entire thread. here is a few things i have to respond to ...
catfishbluezz:
So the of the 13 blogs he is referring to in this article, only 4 are from CFed. The rest are friends that have their own blogs or websites and are members. If Kuzi was a member of CFed, his bias would also be in question, according to the format of how folks were chosen for this.
that is true. my review blog is on the list they produced as well. interestingly enough, i did have an HoE cigar on my top 5 reviews of 2013.
jgibv:
Lastly --- if all else is equal, is a "free cigar" inherently better than a cigar you "pay for"?
this, i feel, is the real issue. when i started my blog i made an effort to eliminate this view that i may be swayed to like a cigar more because a company butters me up. in my blog page about my blog i have this quote (and its been there from the get go):
"I am not looking for free stuff from cigar companies. I am not looking to get into the business. I am not looking to get paid for my reviews. All of that stuff taints the process. I am looking to constantly increase my personal understanding of cigars and share what I find with anyone that is willing to listen."
that being said, i am still a reviewer. a few companies have come to me (HoE included) and said that they have read my reviews and that they would like for me to review their cigar. every time i have told them that i would be happy to review their cigar as long as it is on my time and it is paid for with my own money. When Gary Griffith sent me cigar anyway i flat out told him that i was not going to review any of those cigars. what made me respect him there as his response to that. he basically said "sweet, im just glad you like cigars"
made me feel good about adding a big "NO REVIEW" sticker to the backs of those sticks.
jgibv:
Re-reading everything, I'm not quite sure I understand the point HW's trying to make in the original post .... like is he trying to start some $hit with you guys on CFed???
Is he trying to call you guys biased towards the H.O.E. products?
Because if so, I think y'all need to have a talk with the HW guys and their premeprimepreme love for DE products -- 92 for a papas fritas, LMFAO ok??
I don't even know....
I dont believe he is trying to start ***. i fee that HW is trying to point out that some statistics may point that way and he is unsure on if it is or not.
catfishbluezz:
In the end, it defaces their name, not ours, which was the opposite of his intention. We don't score cigars.....
im not sure it does. i mean he did say " I do not think that any of the 13 lists placed House of Emilio products higher because of their relationships with these companies" and that is something that you pointed out yourself.
Sasquatch:
As a customer, I would ask that a reviewer disclose if the stick was gifted to them for marketing purposes. That way everything is in the open and would avoid controversy.
i agree with this. i dont disclose on a review by review basis because i state that in other places on my blog. if you read a review by me, it is because i obtained the cigar the way any person with zero connection to the industry would.
As usual informative and spot on. Kuzi i enjoy your reviews and info you share for the reasons you stated. You my friend are straight forward..to the point...no nonsense kind of guy which is very refreshing in a time when marketing dollars ultimately secure a desired result.
I didnt think this would cause this much of a stir.
Then why'd you post it?
kuzi16:
im not sure it does
You see, when people in the industry post misinformation, it makes them look like politicians, or that they have some sort of agenda... Just like the article, your OP is full of misinformation. When people whom are supposed to be respected individuals in any industry post things in a public format suggesting controversy, they are expected to do their due diligence. When they do not, it discounts their credibility.
This is my last post in this thread. As always, if anyone wants information about CFed, you can always PM me here, or email me at dustin@cigarfederation.com. We have no problem being transparent.
then why did i post it.... I guess that's fair. I didn't think it would as intense as it is. But... I shoulda known. I'm not sure what misinformation you are talking about. I was looking for opinions. And you gave yours. Being that you are in the cigar federation I respect what you have to say about it. I know you from here and I trust your opinion. Like I said I like HoE. I was just surprised they made as big of a deal as they did on halfwheel.
what are your thoughts? is there a bias? or just an up and coming company?
i know a few of you are members of the Cigar Federation.
i am not.
i dont want the thought of bias in my reviews. if you are in the cigar federation, how do you feel about the worry of bias?
I stayed away from this thread for a while to think on what exactly it was about and how it went from a question to "defending one's honor".
I'm kind of tied up tonight, so this is off the cuff, so take it for what it's worth. Nothing.
But since the original question were "what are your thought?", "is there a bias?" and "or just an up and coming company?"
I'm only replying to that and nothing else.
And you can read what you want into it, it's still nothing else.
Since Kuzi asked what are your thoughts....
My thoughts are that up until I started being active in ccom again, I had never heard of Cigar Federation and rarely read a review other than Rip's, Kuzi's or ones posted here.
And even after I heard of them, I still rarely read a reviews other than those posted here.
And lists are just that. Lists.
It's kind of like those lists on youtube of the top 10 greatest guitar rifts.
There probably 50 different lists. Made by different people and each opinion is different.
But you can bet if one of them had been given a guitar by Jimmy Paige, he'd be at the top of their list.
Is there a bias? It's human nature. You get something for free from a company, you immediately feel some sense of gratitude or being obligated to them. Whether purposely or subconsciously.
Well, unless you have no morals, then I suppose possibly there wouldn't be any bias.
Is it just an up and coming company?
Since I'd never heard of them until this and never smoked any of their cigars, I'd have to say yes, they are up and coming and using social networking, like reviews and all that to gain exposure. Can't fault them for that.
If you are purchasing the cigars, reviewing them and going on your own results, then there may still be a bit of bias to it, but you have no obligation to anyone. So I would [personally] hold more credence in reviews that don't seem to be affiliated with someone, than those who do.
Again, this reply is solely to address the questions asked by Kuzi and nothing else.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
If you are purchasing the cigars, reviewing them and going on your own results, then there may still be a bit of bias to it, but you have no obligation to anyone. So I would [personally] hold more credence in reviews that don't seem to be affiliated with someone, than those who do.
Again, this reply is solely to address the questions asked by Kuzi and nothing else.
and this is where the rubber meets the road...at least for me. I have sent many cigars to brothers here and asked for their opinions and I think those reviews carry more weight then from the bigger sites. I have read many reviews online where stick were rated 92 or higher and when I tried them all I could think of was "so this is what happens when a **** takes a dump". I also would never toss sending sticks to a brother or sister and asking for their thoughts in the same boat as what is being talked about here.
Lastly --- if all else is equal, is a "free cigar" inherently better than a cigar you "pay for"?
this, i feel, is the real issue. when i started my blog i made an effort to eliminate this view that i may be swayed to like a cigar more because a company butters me up. in my blog page about my blog i have this quote (and its been there from the get go):
"I am not looking for free stuff from cigar companies. I am not looking to get into the business. I am not looking to get paid for my reviews. All of that stuff taints the process. I am looking to constantly increase my personal understanding of cigars and share what I find with anyone that is willing to listen."
that being said, i am still a reviewer. a few companies have come to me (HoE included) and said that they have read my reviews and that they would like for me to review their cigar. every time i have told them that i would be happy to review their cigar as long as it is on my time and it is paid for with my own money. When Gary Griffith sent me cigar anyway i flat out told him that i was not going to review any of those cigars. what made me respect him there as his response to that. he basically said "sweet, im just glad you like cigars"
made me feel good about adding a big "NO REVIEW" sticker to the backs of those sticks.
I like that.
There's just something about buying the cigar with your own $$ like us "regular Joes" - and reviewing it on your own time that feels more authentic to me.
Also, I think the manner in which it's posted has a big effect on the review's credibility.
There's something about reading a post on a forum that seems more genuine than finding a review elsewhere (especially if the site has lots of external ads, site sponsors, etc.) It also helps that I feel like I "know" the folks who post reviews here and can trust their opinions more than a random review I found on Google.
kuzi16:
jgibv:
Re-reading everything, I'm not quite sure I understand the point HW's trying to make in the original post .... like is he trying to start some $hit with you guys on CFed???
Is he trying to call you guys biased towards the H.O.E. products?
Because if so, I think y'all need to have a talk with the HW guys and their premeprimepreme love for DE products -- 92 for a papas fritas, LMFAO ok??
I don't even know....
I dont believe he is trying to start ***. i fee that HW is trying to point out that some statistics may point that way and he is unsure on if it is or not.
I suppose so. Just seems like an odd thing to do. I guess he'd catch flack either way.
kuzi16:
Sasquatch:
As a customer, I would ask that a reviewer disclose if the stick was gifted to them for marketing purposes. That way everything is in the open and would avoid controversy.
i agree with this. i dont disclose on a review by review basis because i state that in other places on my blog. if you read a review by me, it is because i obtained the cigar the way any person with zero connection to the industry would.
I'm glad you do this --- and I love reviewers that disclose the source of their cigar. Whether it was bought with their own money, given to them by a friend, or sent to them by a manufacturer - I appreciate the reviews that are honest from the start.
Although I am always slightly skeptical of reviews that involve "free" cigars, because to me a free cigar always tastes better than a cigar I purchased; and I always fear that the reviewer will be influenced the same way.
Sorry, folks, by and large research says that free cigars don't taste better. If anything, cigars you paid way too much for taste better. Give a person a plate of food and the more you charge, the better they'll report it tastes. You very much get what you pay for, at least in your own mind.
Sorry, folks, by and large research says that free cigars don't taste better. If anything, cigars you paid way too much for taste better. Give a person a plate of food and the more you charge, the better they'll report it tastes. You very much get what you pay for, at least in your own mind.
Perception is an interessting thing. Obligation, cost, service and relationship ALL play a huge part in it. Bias can be several things. What is bias to you may not be the same thing I consider bias. But your perception of it will be as real as mine.
As I said, I personally hold more credence in folks who at least make the effort to prevent bias.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
One of the b&m's near me is owned by hoe's I always argue with them since when opening they had some really rare stuff and now...it is what it is! Do I not like the cigars... No I think they are ok would I pay that price?!?! Yes for a couple. But I'd rather have the rare and high priced then the average and pushing sales
Comments
I mean....
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
* I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *
Will a person(reviewer) look more favorably on a company that "treats him right" and gives them free sticks......yes, it is human nature. Do some companys give away more cigars and have a bigger marketing presence in certain segments...yes. Should we fault them for marketing their product correctly?
As a customer, I would ask that a reviewer disclose if the stick was gifted to them for marketing purposes. That way everything is in the open and would avoid controversy.
this, i feel, is the real issue. when i started my blog i made an effort to eliminate this view that i may be swayed to like a cigar more because a company butters me up. in my blog page about my blog i have this quote (and its been there from the get go):
"I am not looking for free stuff from cigar companies. I am not looking to get into the business. I am not looking to get paid for my reviews. All of that stuff taints the process. I am looking to constantly increase my personal understanding of cigars and share what I find with anyone that is willing to listen."
that being said, i am still a reviewer. a few companies have come to me (HoE included) and said that they have read my reviews and that they would like for me to review their cigar. every time i have told them that i would be happy to review their cigar as long as it is on my time and it is paid for with my own money. When Gary Griffith sent me cigar anyway i flat out told him that i was not going to review any of those cigars.
what made me respect him there as his response to that. he basically said "sweet, im just glad you like cigars"
made me feel good about adding a big "NO REVIEW" sticker to the backs of those sticks. I dont believe he is trying to start ***. i fee that HW is trying to point out that some statistics may point that way and he is unsure on if it is or not.
im not sure it does. i mean he did say " I do not think that any of the 13 lists placed House of Emilio products higher because of their relationships with these companies" and that is something that you pointed out yourself. i agree with this. i dont disclose on a review by review basis because i state that in other places on my blog. if you read a review by me, it is because i obtained the cigar the way any person with zero connection to the industry would.
+1
This is my last post in this thread. As always, if anyone wants information about CFed, you can always PM me here, or email me at dustin@cigarfederation.com. We have no problem being transparent.
CutleryBarn
I'm not sure what misinformation you are talking about. I was looking for opinions. And you gave yours. Being that you are in the cigar federation I respect what you have to say about it. I know you from here and I trust your opinion. Like I said I like HoE. I was just surprised they made as big of a deal as they did on halfwheel.
I'm kind of tied up tonight, so this is off the cuff, so take it for what it's worth. Nothing.
But since the original question were "what are your thought?", "is there a bias?" and "or just an up and coming company?"
I'm only replying to that and nothing else.
And you can read what you want into it, it's still nothing else.
Since Kuzi asked what are your thoughts....
My thoughts are that up until I started being active in ccom again, I had never heard of Cigar Federation and rarely read a review other than Rip's, Kuzi's or ones posted here.
And even after I heard of them, I still rarely read a reviews other than those posted here.
And lists are just that. Lists.
It's kind of like those lists on youtube of the top 10 greatest guitar rifts.
There probably 50 different lists. Made by different people and each opinion is different.
But you can bet if one of them had been given a guitar by Jimmy Paige, he'd be at the top of their list.
Is there a bias? It's human nature. You get something for free from a company, you immediately feel some sense of gratitude or being obligated to them. Whether purposely or subconsciously.
Well, unless you have no morals, then I suppose possibly there wouldn't be any bias.
Is it just an up and coming company?
Since I'd never heard of them until this and never smoked any of their cigars, I'd have to say yes, they are up and coming and using social networking, like reviews and all that to gain exposure. Can't fault them for that.
If you are purchasing the cigars, reviewing them and going on your own results, then there may still be a bit of bias to it, but you have no obligation to anyone. So I would [personally] hold more credence in reviews that don't seem to be affiliated with someone, than those who do.
Again, this reply is solely to address the questions asked by Kuzi and nothing else.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
CutleryBarn
There's just something about buying the cigar with your own $$ like us "regular Joes" - and reviewing it on your own time that feels more authentic to me.
Also, I think the manner in which it's posted has a big effect on the review's credibility.
There's something about reading a post on a forum that seems more genuine than finding a review elsewhere (especially if the site has lots of external ads, site sponsors, etc.) It also helps that I feel like I "know" the folks who post reviews here and can trust their opinions more than a random review I found on Google.
I suppose so. Just seems like an odd thing to do. I guess he'd catch flack either way. I'm glad you do this --- and I love reviewers that disclose the source of their cigar. Whether it was bought with their own money, given to them by a friend, or sent to them by a manufacturer - I appreciate the reviews that are honest from the start.
Although I am always slightly skeptical of reviews that involve "free" cigars, because to me a free cigar always tastes better than a cigar I purchased; and I always fear that the reviewer will be influenced the same way.
* I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *
As I said, I personally hold more credence in folks who at least make the effort to prevent bias.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.