Towns get MRAPs

Rain

Robert Shellmyer was relieved to see last week at his hometown’s 175th anniversary celebration that the local police department’s new prized possession was not driving alongside the tractors and floats in the parade. That’s because a 45,000-pound, explosion-resistant vehicle from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan might spoil the mood. Shellmyer, a 78-year-old city councilman for the small town of Washington, Iowa, was the sole local politician to vote against the department of 12 police officers getting the free MRAP — short for mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicle — from the Defense Department three months ago. Washington is one of hundreds of towns and cities to get a recycled MRAP from the Pentagon over the past year and a half. “Here’s the thing,” Shellmyer says. “Washington, Iowa, has 8,000 people. We have an MRAP now. We have a SWAT team. We have [police] dogs, and we have a SWAT team transportation vehicle that’s not armored.” The city councilman began to think: “Goodness, this is overkill.” But as a new report by the ACLU demonstrates, Washington’s use of military tactics and equipment has become the norm. Most of America’s police departments now have special paramilitary units — called SWAT teams — to respond to emergency situations, conduct drug raids and even, in some cases, patrol the streets. In the past few years, more of these SWAT teams are getting armored vehicles provided by the federal government to expand their capabilities. Law enforcement leaders say the increased military equipment and tactics are necessary to respond to violent emergency events such as school shootings. Critics counter that the militarization of police causes needless violence. The ACLU report found that 46 civilians were injured in 818 SWAT raids over two years in 11 states. Children were present in the home in 14 percent of the raids the group studied. In 60 percent of the raids, police had a search warrant for a drug offense. Only 7 percent of the SWAT deployments the ACLU studied were for hostage or active shooter scenarios. The MRAPs, designed to protect U.S. soldiers from roadside bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan, are now providing more firepower to these raids thanks to the Defense Department’s 1033 program, which began in the late 1980s to recycle old military equipment to local police. (That includes tens of thousands of machine guns, as well as more quotidian items such as office furniture and computers.) The Department of Homeland Security, meanwhile, provides millions of dollars in grants to local police to buy lighter armored vehicles, like BearCats, to combat terrorism or drug running. (Keene, New Hampshire, received a DHS grant on the strength of an application that listed its annual pumpkin festival as one of several potential terrorist targets.) Unlike when they apply for DHS grants, police departments do not have to make the case that they are facing a terror threat to receive an MRAP under the Defense Department program. The Pentagon has given away 600 MRAPs since it began unloading the vehicles last year. The demand for the hulking machines is growing. “There’s been a real steady increase in police stations taking advantage of this,” said Mark Wright, a Defense Department spokesman. “It’s a heck of a good deal. ... ‘Here’s the MRAP free of charge. You’ve got to pay for maintenance and gas, but other than that we’ll take care of the rest.’” Police departments can cruise for MRAPs and other free military equipment online. A government website that advertises the available equipment shows armored vehicles covered in American flags and branded “POLICE.” Police departments are asked to specify if they want an armored vehicle that is tracked, like a tank, or one that is on wheels. The supply of extra MRAPs is likely to only increase — the government spent $50 billion to produce 27,000 of them in 2007. “Now that the Iraq and Afghanistan war has wound down, the military has a tremendous amount of surplus,” said Pete Kraska, a criminology professor at Eastern Kentucky University who has studied SWAT teams for 25 years. But Kraska doesn’t think it’s a good thing for local police to inherit those leftovers. Though military-style tactics are necessary to respond to extreme situations — such as an active shooter — SWAT teams are predominantly being used to raid private homes in search of drugs. The decommissioned Defense Department gear is likely just to encourage more of those raids carried out by police wearing battle fatigues, another item the 1033 program doles out. Because the Pentagon just started handing out the MRAPs in 2013, it’s unclear how they’re being used. Some SWAT teams use them just for transportation to a raid, but at least one department has used the vehicle to bust through a door. The ACLU wasn’t able to determine how often the vehicles were used by SWAT teams, according to the report’s author Kara Dansky. Many of the armored vehicles end up in hamlets like Washington, which might seem surprising, except that SWAT teams have grown exponentially in small towns over the past 20 years. Kraska found that 80 percent of small towns had SWAT teams by 2005, up from just 20 percent in 1980. More than 90 percent of city departments have the special units. Police say the vehicles are necessary to protect officers in a violent world. William Brister, a captain in the Rapides Parish Sheriff’s Office in Louisiana, said his department decided it needed an armored vehicle after a shootout in 2003 left two officers dead and four more wounded. The Rapides SWAT team was delivering a search warrant to a gunman’s house after he was suspected of shooting at a police car the week earlier. Hundreds of shots were fired over two hours, and one resident told the local paper at the time that it sounded like “a war zone.” The MRAP could also come in handy for rescue missions after flooding or a hurricane, he said. The armored vehicle ended up costing the Rapides department $15,000 through various state and transportation fees, which Brister calls “a good chunk of change,” but he believes it’s worth it. That’s not counting gas for the 75-gallon tank, though, or training, which the Pentagon doesn’t provide. “A guy from MRAP University” came and trained eight of the officers in how to operate the heavy vehicle, Brister said. For now, the hulking MRAP is just sitting in the yard near a police building. In Washington, meanwhile, Shellmyer gets ribbed by the locals for the vehicle and the local media attention it’s garnered. “I go down to a little filling station, and there’s always two or three boys sipping coffee and they say, ‘Well Shellmyer do you feel safer now that we have a tank?’” The city councilman just shrugs it off. “We’re just trying to put the blanket over the top of it and hopefully people will forget we have it.”http://news.yahoo.com/as-wars-wind-down--small-town-cops-inherit-armored-vehicles-233505138.html

Rain

In my mind, these things are associated with Iraq/Afghanistan...not Suburbia, USA. I rarely got to drive, but I did get to gun.So...if I saw on of these rolling down the street of my neighborhood, it would be a real "Da fuq?" moment. I'm not saying that the police don't need these, and it is better then just leaving them in Afghanistan...but...meh. Just seems like overkill.

jgibv

Rain:

....I'm not saying that the police don't need these,.....

I'll say it.
They don't.


OSU, you know, the COLLEGE, got one of these last fall....
http://thelantern.com/2013/09/ohio-state-university-police-bring-in-military-vehicle/


Please, someone, anyone ... explain to me, why a University's police dept. in the good ol' USA needs one of these war machines....

Maybe if OSU had a branch campus in Baghdad, ok I see the need....
But in midwest USA, Columbus (Cowtown) OH, really seems like a waste of $$$, show of force, and big potential for "excessive force/abuse of power"

Rain

Just picked mine up...came with sunglasses and a rifle.

jgibv

Rain:

Just picked mine up...came with sunglasses and a rifle.

sexy

Rain

"William Brister, a captain in the Rapides Parish Sheriff’s Office in Louisiana, said his department decided it needed an armored vehicle after a shootout in 2003 left two officers dead and four more wounded. The Rapides SWAT team was delivering a search warrant to a gunman’s house after he was suspected of shooting at a police car the week earlier. Hundreds of shots were fired over two hours, and one resident told the local paper at the time that it sounded like “a war zone.”"I mean...I don't get it. You have to get out of the truck to arrest people. The vehicles provide protection from explosives and gunfire while traveling. I would imagine that most calls in the USA don't involve being shot at and blown up while in route. I also love the line that a SWAT team used one to break a door down...more like a whole wall, I'm sure.

Ken_Light

Ah, there's the end-game. I've been trying to figure it out forever, now it's obvious. 13 years of warring, mostly stretched out needlessly to justify epic spending on far more firepower than should have been necessary, but why? What's the point? Drain the populous of it's money and then step in to give them back that which they've given up, creating dependence? Yes, sure, but is that enough? It seems so unsatisfying. Now it's obvious, it was to bring it all back home, of course, to effectively militarize the police into a gestapo. Meantime flood the media with fearmongers so the rabble think these arms and this extra protection is good while simultaneously giving up their arms with which they might defend themselves, "for their own safety" of course. Well played, I must say.

jgibv

Rain:

"William Brister, a captain in the Rapides Parish Sheriff’s Office in Louisiana, said his department decided it needed an armored vehicle after a shootout in 2003 left two officers dead and four more wounded. The Rapides SWAT team was delivering a search warrant to a gunman’s house after he was suspected of shooting at a police car the week earlier. Hundreds of shots were fired over two hours, and one resident told the local paper at the time that it sounded like “a war zone.”"I mean...I don't get it. You have to get out of the truck to arrest people. The vehicles provide protection from explosives and gunfire while traveling. I would imagine that most calls in the USA don't involve being shot at and blown up while in route. I also love the line that a SWAT team used one to break a door down...more like a whole wall, I'm sure.

Something tells me if the police dept rolls up in one of these, arresting people is probably not what they're looking to do.


I certainly understand the swat team doesn't want to roll up to a bad situation without some protection....
But wouldn't an armored box van or something be sufficient, and a little more practical than one of these beasts.....
A van wouldn't have the same "intimidation" factor as one of these though, that's for sure.

And I agree, when was the last time you heard of a cop having to avoid explosives and heavy gunfire en route ...... never.

Rain

Plus the back ramp takes like 15 seconds to lower..."You stay there while we get out! You're in trouble!"You want intimidation? Air Assault out of a helicopter Not only looks way cooler, but..it's a helicopter.

webmost

We will get this off our chests. Our chests will have no effect. We are out-numbered ten to one by so many worshippers of the State looking for a Hero to save them from imagined Chaos. Tyranny will continue to throttle us down. Future generations will look back in dismay from their dark ages, and say: "They did it. That generation. They are the cowards who gave up the American way of life."

jgibv

Rain:

.....You want intimidation? Air Assault out of a helicopter Not only looks way cooler, but..it's a helicopter.

I can just see it now....
Future Headline:

---- US DoD repurposing more equipment to Local Police Depts ----
200 Apache attack helicopters and 100 harrier jets will be available to Police Depts under this new DoD program....

dr_frankenstein56

stuff like this is what will bring the IED to roads in america. There aint a pressure cooker in 'Murica that wouldnt splatter an RG31 to the wind. I say let em try and see what happens.

Aj

jd50ae

I don't understand how any one could object to the police getting all the protection they can get their hands on. And not just the police, EMTs and firemen being shot at when answering a call is chilling. Too many cops being shot or killed just for doing their jobs.

I know of at least 3 different situations in N Va. (before I moved) where the mere presence of a military style vehicle brought an end to potentially explosive situations and no one was injured. Yes, it is a daxm shame they are (IMHO) needed, but don't blame that on the cops. Blame the lawyers and xxxxxxx politicians.

jd50ae

Rain:

Just picked mine up...came with sunglasses and a rifle.

Now, if we had Rain I wouldn't worry about a thing. But he is only one and can't be everywhere...if only he could fly.

Rain

I'm on my way...but it only gets like 3MPG and tops out at like 30mph. So, yeah, it'll take me a while.

dr_frankenstein56

jd50ae:

I don't understand how any one could object to the police getting all the protection they can get their hands on. And not just the police, EMTs and firemen being shot at when answering a call is chilling. Too many cops being shot or killed just for doing their jobs.

I know of at least 3 different situations in N Va. (before I moved) where the mere presence of a military style vehicle brought an end to potentially explosive situations and no one was injured. Yes, it is a daxm shame they are (IMHO) needed, but don't blame that on the cops. Blame the lawyers and xxxxxxx politicians.

See I have the opposite opinion. I think that larger vehicles and tactics like this will just push those who oppose "Authority" to larger and more violent methods of defense or attack. Cause if the cops feel like they need more fire power... I need more fire power too. This is just going to be a result for more collateral damage. It is my opinion, the police should be no more well armed then you or I. If they get a tank, well i just need to build an anti-tank piece.

Aj

jgibv

dr_frankenstein56:

jd50ae:

I don't understand how any one could object to the police getting all the protection they can get their hands on. And not just the police, EMTs and firemen being shot at when answering a call is chilling. Too many cops being shot or killed just for doing their jobs.

I know of at least 3 different situations in N Va. (before I moved) where the mere presence of a military style vehicle brought an end to potentially explosive situations and no one was injured. Yes, it is a daxm shame they are (IMHO) needed, but don't blame that on the cops. Blame the lawyers and xxxxxxx politicians.

See I have the opposite opinion. I think that larger vehicles and tactics like this will just push those who oppose "Authority" to larger and more violent methods of defense or attack. Cause if the cops feel like they need more fire power... I need more fire power too. This is just going to be a result for more collateral damage. It is my opinion, the police should be no more well armed then you or I. If they get a tank, well i just need to build an anti-tank piece.

Aj

I agree with you 100%, AJ.


JD, you probably won't like this report since it's from the left-leaning, lying, liberal-biased ACLU ;-)
But they just released a 98 page report on this exact topic titled War Comes Home: The Excessive Militarization of American Policing
(EDIT: forgot URL) https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/jus14-warcomeshome-report-web-rel1.pdf

Long read, but worth your time IMO....at least give it a quick "once-over".

“Using these federal funds, state and local law enforcement agencies have amassed military arsenals purportedly to wage the failed War on Drugs…
But these arsenals are by no means free of cost for communities.
Instead, the use of hyper aggressive tools and tactics results in tragedy for civilians and police officers, escalates the risk of needless violence, destroys property, and undermines individual liberties.”

jd50ae

dr_frankenstein56:

jd50ae:

I don't understand how any one could object to the police getting all the protection they can get their hands on. And not just the police, EMTs and firemen being shot at when answering a call is chilling. Too many cops being shot or killed just for doing their jobs.

I know of at least 3 different situations in N Va. (before I moved) where the mere presence of a military style vehicle brought an end to potentially explosive situations and no one was injured. Yes, it is a daxm shame they are (IMHO) needed, but don't blame that on the cops. Blame the lawyers and xxxxxxx politicians.

See I have the opposite opinion. I think that larger vehicles and tactics like this will just push those who oppose "Authority" to larger and more violent methods of defense or attack. Cause if the cops feel like they need more fire power... I need more fire power too. This is just going to be a result for more collateral damage. It is my opinion, the police should be no more well armed then you or I. If they get a tank, well i just need to build an anti-tank piece.

Aj

To me, your argument sounds like a war between you, non-criminal element, and the cops turned into a force against all citizen elements because of our government. And as long as things keep going as they are, it causes me concern too. A civil war?

I am addressing the criminal element that already has bombs and armor piercing ammo for their AK47s.

jgibv

JD, I know you were replying to AJ but I'd like to jump in on this too....

jd50ae:

And as long as things keep going as they are, it causes me concern too. A civil war?

Yes, perhaps...

But maybe they are gearing up for a war with Mexico/the cartels instead.
I'd say that is more likely to happen first.

jd50ae:

I am addressing the criminal element that already has bombs and armor piercing ammo for their AK47s.

What criminal element is that?

Yes street gangs will have guns, but armor piercing bullets, body armor, etc....???

I suppose the cartels south of the border probably have some higher powered weapons and equipment though.

The most recent event that fits your description IMO was the high-profile "North Hollywood shootout" in 1997 where the two robbers were much better armed than the police.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

dr_frankenstein56

jd50ae:

dr_frankenstein56:

jd50ae:

I don't understand how any one could object to the police getting all the protection they can get their hands on. And not just the police, EMTs and firemen being shot at when answering a call is chilling. Too many cops being shot or killed just for doing their jobs.

I know of at least 3 different situations in N Va. (before I moved) where the mere presence of a military style vehicle brought an end to potentially explosive situations and no one was injured. Yes, it is a daxm shame they are (IMHO) needed, but don't blame that on the cops. Blame the lawyers and xxxxxxx politicians.

See I have the opposite opinion. I think that larger vehicles and tactics like this will just push those who oppose "Authority" to larger and more violent methods of defense or attack. Cause if the cops feel like they need more fire power... I need more fire power too. This is just going to be a result for more collateral damage. It is my opinion, the police should be no more well armed then you or I. If they get a tank, well i just need to build an anti-tank piece.

Aj

To me, your argument sounds like a war between you, non-criminal element, and the cops turned into a force against all citizen elements because of our government. And as long as things keep going as they are, it causes me concern too. A civil war?

I am addressing the criminal element that already has bombs and armor piercing ammo for their AK47s.

right on JD! I love your ability to see what im saying even though i speak like chit.

And your right, they do have bombs and serious firepower if they desire it, but it would almost seem to be in a minority rather then common place. Criminals generally are about there agenda, money, control, or drugs. So while events do happen where major firepower is needed as in the example given by John I dont see this happening enough to warrent needing tactical vehicles.

Now, The point where i see this as a legitimate need, would be for the Extremest, The Outlaw Milita, or the Waco types. Like you pointed out above, where certain groups may have felt slighted by there opposing force and decide to arm up. At that level, Sheriff Dummy Do Good needs to step aside and allow military intervention. In these cases, Local authorities do nuthing more then escalate the situation to the point of where it ends up on TV like we all have seen. However, (making a wild assumption) I would suppose a militant group with a half brained leader probably would understand his inability to fight back if presented aganst a force as the US Military, he might back down, I know I would. But if it was the local police rattling my cage... they better prepare for a fight on the level of there 'Equipment" But again, these are just my opinions. And im nutz. about 3 feet short of a complete lunatic.

A.j.

jd50ae

dr_frankenstein56:

jd50ae:

dr_frankenstein56:

jd50ae:

I don't understand how any one could object to the police getting all the protection they can get their hands on. And not just the police, EMTs and firemen being shot at when answering a call is chilling. Too many cops being shot or killed just for doing their jobs.

I know of at least 3 different situations in N Va. (before I moved) where the mere presence of a military style vehicle brought an end to potentially explosive situations and no one was injured. Yes, it is a daxm shame they are (IMHO) needed, but don't blame that on the cops. Blame the lawyers and xxxxxxx politicians.

See I have the opposite opinion. I think that larger vehicles and tactics like this will just push those who oppose "Authority" to larger and more violent methods of defense or attack. Cause if the cops feel like they need more fire power... I need more fire power too. This is just going to be a result for more collateral damage. It is my opinion, the police should be no more well armed then you or I. If they get a tank, well i just need to build an anti-tank piece.

Aj

To me, your argument sounds like a war between you, non-criminal element, and the cops turned into a force against all citizen elements because of our government. And as long as things keep going as they are, it causes me concern too. A civil war?

I am addressing the criminal element that already has bombs and armor piercing ammo for their AK47s.

right on JD! I love your ability to see what im saying even though i speak like chit.

And your right, they do have bombs and serious firepower if they desire it, but it would almost seem to be in a minority rather then common place. Criminals generally are about there agenda, money, control, or drugs. So while events do happen where major firepower is needed as in the example given by John I dont see this happening enough to warrent needing tactical vehicles.

Now, The point where i see this as a legitimate need, would be for the Extremest, The Outlaw Milita, or the Waco types. Like you pointed out above, where certain groups may have felt slighted by there opposing force and decide to arm up. At that level, Sheriff Dummy Do Good needs to step aside and allow military intervention. In these cases, Local authorities do nuthing more then escalate the situation to the point of where it ends up on TV like we all have seen. However, (making a wild assumption) I would suppose a militant group with a half brained leader probably would understand his inability to fight back if presented aganst a force as the US Military, he might back down, I know I would. But if it was the local police rattling my cage... they better prepare for a fight on the level of there 'Equipment" But again, these are just my opinions. And im nutz. about 3 feet short of a complete lunatic.

A.j.

If you do an internet search you will see it is more common then you think. I have personally bought and shot a full case of armor piercing in an SKS just to see if it could be damaged...all it did was get really really hot. There is a show on TV "Swat..insert city" and the number of times that type of vehicle defused a bad situation was amazing. Not to mention the number of times it opened armored doors and windows. They are out there, we just don't hear about it. One thing I have not heard a lot about lately are the militias and "posse" groups.

SleevePlz

First of all, y'all are forgetting that Red Dawn can and will happen. That's why they made the movie twice. You'll be happy when Patrick Swayze/Chris Hemsworth has easy access to this stuff when that does happen. Lol, really though, I'll focus on a line in the original post that seems preposterously exaggerated.

Rain:

Kraska found that 80 percent of small towns had SWAT teams by 2005, up from just 20 percent in 1980. More than 90 percent of city departments have the special units.

I thought most small towns didn't even have their own police force, much less a SWAT team. If the county's sheriff's department has a SWAT team, does that mean every town in the county has a SWAT team?

perkinke

SleevePlz:

First of all, y'all are forgetting that Red Dawn can and will happen. That's why they made the movie twice. You'll be happy when Patrick Swayze/Chris Hemsworth has easy access to this stuff when that does happen. Lol, really though, I'll focus on a line in the original post that seems preposterously exaggerated.

Rain:

Kraska found that 80 percent of small towns had SWAT teams by 2005, up from just 20 percent in 1980. More than 90 percent of city departments have the special units.

I thought most small towns didn't even have their own police force, much less a SWAT team. If the county's sheriff's department has a SWAT team, does that mean every town in the county has a SWAT team?

I wonder if it's a question of how they define whether a small town has a team or not. In my area we had a joint team made up of members of two county sheriff's departments and three city PD's. So technically, three small towns had a team...but it was only one team. Our Sheriff's office disbanded the SWAT team for a couple of reasons: 1) it began to get call outs disproportionate to the need, kind of a "Well, we have it let's use it!" mentality, situations that were better handled by deputies working like they always do rather than amping up the situation. 2) The cost for training and pay differentials was becoming too high for the number of times the team was actually needed and we're less than 30 miles from the State Police SWAT team's station. 3) It was becoming detrimental to departmental morale to have a small department with a few officers who considered themselves above the "petty" duties of regular patrol deputies and detectives.

Reason #1 is one of my concerns, I mean how many of us haven't bought a tool on sale at Home Depot and then rolled around the house searching for something to use it on because, well, we have it?

Amos_Umwhat

Ken Light:

Ah, there's the end-game. I've been trying to figure it out forever, now it's obvious. 13 years of warring, mostly stretched out needlessly to justify epic spending on far more firepower than should have been necessary, but why? What's the point? Drain the populous of it's money and then step in to give them back that which they've given up, creating dependence? Yes, sure, but is that enough? It seems so unsatisfying. Now it's obvious, it was to bring it all back home, of course, to effectively militarize the police into a gestapo. Meantime flood the media with fearmongers so the rabble think these arms and this extra protection is good while simultaneously giving up their arms with which they might defend themselves, "for their own safety" of course. Well played, I must say.

Right on the money.

Amos_Umwhat

webmost:

We will get this off our chests. Our chests will have no effect. We are out-numbered ten to one by so many worshippers of the State looking for a Hero to save them from imagined Chaos. Tyranny will continue to throttle us down. Future generations will look back in dismay from their dark ages, and say: "They did it. That generation. They are the cowards who gave up the American way of life."

Again, on th money.

Beaker38

The county i live in (Albany County) here in the state of New York has an MRAP that they keep at a local FD (Because there is no key to it so they have to store it inside somewhere so they can prevent some crazy guy from getting it) I have seen it many times at that station. I believe they have only used it once. Its a nice tool to have in your back pocket. here is a photo of it.

jgibv

Beaker38:

The county i live in (Albany County) here in the state of New York has an MRAP that they keep at a local FD (Because there is no key to it so they have to store it inside somewhere so they can prevent some crazy guy from getting it) I have seen it many times at that station. I believe they have only used it once. Its a nice tool to have in your back pocket. here is a photo of it.

"Conservator of the Peace" .... LOL

SleevePlz

Considering the popularity of Hummers, isn't the real question, when do these become civilian commuter vehicles? "Honey, I know the H1 gets better gas mileage, but the MRAP would be safer if I get in an accident on the highway!"

Beaker38

my county has like 3-4 hummers already, they never get used and just sit around. here is a video of the mrap. http://www.news10.com/story/24659089/albany-county-sheriffs-new-armored-vehicle ------------- the whole thing with the guy standoff was he caught his house and out buildings on fire and then threatened firefighters and police saying he was going to shoot them and blocked of the road with cut down trees.

webmost

can't go wrong raising awareness

Rain

webmost:

can't go wrong raising awareness

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