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Does size matter?

First_WarriorFirst_Warrior N.C. MountainsPosts: 2,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've got a question. Does size matter? A cigar is made of filler, binder and wrapper. This I know. The question is about ring sizes and the taste of a cigar. I am assuming that ideally the different ring sizes of the same cigar are porptionaly the same but that may not be the case. I seem to be getting less taste with the larger ring sizes of 54- 60 which have more filler and binder and more taste with ring sizes of 48-52 which have less filler and binder. Am I tasting the wrapper better because there is more wrapper in the smaller sizes or am I just imagining things?
The Native Peoples of the Americas gave tobacco to the world.

Comments

  • jd50aejd50ae West Gnawed Pencil, TNPosts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with you. Especially the larger pointy ones which no matter how many I smoke just do not seem to match up with the rest of the same brand.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭


    here you go ... read THIS


  • CharlieHeisCharlieHeis South DakotaPosts: 7,514 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, there would be a different ratio of binder, filler, and wrapper. Must be why so many guys on here prefer the lancero and corona sizes.
  • wwhwangwwhwang Ontario, CanadaPosts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    Well, some people say that size doesn't matter as much as how you use it. Oh wait. You meant cigars.
  • First_WarriorFirst_Warrior N.C. MountainsPosts: 2,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:


    here you go ... read THIS


    Kuzi, I read the whole thread. Thanks for providing the linc. The info avaliable on this forum is amazing.
    The Native Peoples of the Americas gave tobacco to the world.
  • catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭
    Keep in mind, most blenders tweak blends for size as it is simply not possible or viable to use the same number of leaf in a small ring gauge as a larger ring gauge. For instance, a 38-42 may use 2, a 42-46 may use 2-3 fillers, while a 50-52 3-4, and 52+ 4-5. This happens with most companies, and most blenders realize it is impossible to make a small rg consistent flavor wise with their larger offerings. Does that mean you get companies from time to time that make lancero's with 5 fillers? Sure, but it is still not a viable thing to do. The reality is, you may loose some complexity as you get smaller, but gain some distinction of the wrapper. As you get larger the opposite holds true. Either way, the wrapper is not as big of an influence as some might claim in the cigar world, otherwise binders and fillers would not exist. It is the interplay of all that create the depth, balance, finish, and longevity. A great wrapper will mtake cheap filler taste good, and vice versa. I find 46rg is the best in between really, but often times a Robusto will have tons more flavor and depth then a small ring gauge within a brand. I just had this happen at the show actually.

    So to answer your question, yes, size does matter. Personally I love PC 40-42rg stuff from Habanos, but not in the NC world, as their wrapper does not compare other then a few examples. For CC the small rings just give me complexity and tons of flavor and body. The larger rings allow for more depth in a delicate way. For the NC world, i prefer 46-50rg and find the most complexity in this range. They have access to more growing regions, soil complexity, and ranges of tobaccos, so this is where the NC world really shines in comparison, when done right of course. The simple amount of space Cuba has to grow pales in comparison to the NC world. Now if only the NC world could catch up and figure out how to blend and cure tobacco with as good of a finish, the world would be complete =) They sure are getting close, they just like to charge a ton, unless their name is Elogio or Regius.
  • The3StogiesThe3Stogies MainePosts: 2,652 ✭✭✭✭
    wwhwang:
    Well, some people say that size doesn't matter as much as how you use it. Oh wait. You meant cigars.
    As long as it fits your ashtray, ohhh that was bad.

    Went through a bunch of corona's last year, this year I've been smoking mostly robusto's in the same brands. Think I like the robusto's better, maybe because I do tend to smoke a little fast. Interesting topic, I wondered about this too.
  • catfishbluezzcatfishbluezz Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭
    First Warrior:
    I've got a question. Does size matter? A cigar is made of filler, binder and wrapper. This I know. The question is about ring sizes and the taste of a cigar. I am assuming that ideally the different ring sizes of the same cigar are porptionaly the same but that may not be the case. I seem to be getting less taste with the larger ring sizes of 54- 60 which have more filler and binder and more taste with ring sizes of 48-52 which have less filler and binder. Am I tasting the wrapper better because there is more wrapper in the smaller sizes or am I just imagining things?
    What you are getting with the larger rings is less depth of flavor. The core flavors of the tobacco will be there, but the subtle nuance will not, and the interplay of smaller leaves combusting together to create a bouquet of flavor.
  • CigaryCigary Posts: 630
    I'll go ask her and then get back to you........she said it doesn't matter but I heard her laughing anyway and now I don't trust her at all.
  • RhamlinRhamlin WVPosts: 8,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do enjoy a good 60 gage. But it's been my experience that the best big ring smokes are the ones that were meant to be smoked in a big RG. Such as the Inch or MUWAT. When a smoke is blended with say a robusto size in mind it usually loses something when you go big with it.
  • 0patience0patience Packed up the bags and moved to TenneseePosts: 10,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cigary:
    I'll go ask her and then get back to you........she said it doesn't matter but I heard her laughing anyway and now I don't trust her at all.
    Honey, does size matter?
    What? No, [snicker] of course not. [giggle] It isn't the size, but the quality of it. [Laughing hard]
    Ok, thanks. Wait!! What the H does that mean??
    Nothing dear, now go back to playing with your friends on the internet.

    ROFL!!
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • jarublajarubla Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Noob Bumping as this one has some good nuggets

    -Jay
    “There’ll be two dates on your tombstone and all your friends will read ’em but all that’s gonna matter is that little dash between ’em.” -Kevin Welch
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 7,615 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jarubla said:
    Noob Bumping as this one has some good nuggets

    -Jay
    Good data mining.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "There is nothing so in need of reforming as another person's bad habits."   Mark Twain
  • jsnblnchrdjsnblnchrd Posts: 33

    I'm told that those with a highly refined palate can tell the differences between the same blend, but different sizes.  They say that there's subtle differences.  I could see that, but here's my thing.  It's essentially the same BLEND.  If I don't like the robusto size, is the taste going to change THAT much in the toro size to make me love it?  I can't believe that it would.  So, I'd say that surely the size DOES matter (since the make up of the cigar HAS to change with size), but not so much so that it means anything.  I've never been inclined to try another size of a blend I didn't like.  Grab the size you're comfortable with based on time, feel, and sight.

  • Alex_SvensonAlex_Svenson Posts: 1,224 admin
    Yes proportions in the recipe are different and the venturi effect will impact temperature and in turn flavor.  That said, for non cuban cigars particularly, master blenders will try to alter a blend as much as possible to ensure a more uniform flavor experience size to size.  Cuban cigars you can expect more differentiation in flavor between sizes.
  • peter4jcpeter4jc Milwaukee, WIPosts: 13,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've never watched a cigar being rolled, nor do I know how big a tobacco leaf is.  How many leaves go into say, a 50 ring gauge cigar, vs a 60 or a 44?  Do they only use whole leaves?  Knowing some of this stuff would give a clue as to how much latitude a blender has to adjust the components of his blend.
    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
  • Alex_SvensonAlex_Svenson Posts: 1,224 admin
    peter4jc said:
    I've never watched a cigar being rolled, nor do I know how big a tobacco leaf is.  How many leaves go into say, a 50 ring gauge cigar, vs a 60 or a 44?  Do they only use whole leaves?  Knowing some of this stuff would give a clue as to how much latitude a blender has to adjust the components of his blend.

    I hate saving "it depends" but it depends.  There are three main types of large cigars, ones that use long filler (whole leaves), some that use a mixed filler (some whole leaves and some cut) and short filler (all cut or chopped).  That said, even long filler based on the bunching process may contain some broken leaves but its still considered long filler.  Most blends will use one wrapper leaf, one or two binder leaves and anywhere from 2 or 3 up to 10 filler tobacco varieties.  (most common is 3).  Depending on cigar size and number of fillers dictates less about how many leaves but rather the size of the leaves of even parts of leaves in some cases.  Case in point is a small cigar project I am working on wit a cigar that is 3.25 x 34 all 8th cut ligero.  It has three fillers and is still considered long filler as we actually cut small strips of long leaf.  Not very cost effective and very rare to do with a cigar this size but that is how we arrive at long filler.  A 52 ring cigar with say 10 filler varietals would deploy a similar technique.  The variance in flavor by size indeed has everything to do with proportion.  In any given cigar blend (and again it depends but Im generalizing) the wrapper delivers a bulk of the flavor, the filler drives the body and flavor and binders are selected for durability and combustibility.  On a larger cigar, the wrapper may contribute to 20% of a cigars overall weight but on smaller ring gauges it can be as much as 40% or 50%.  Being the most flavorful component, this can throw off the balance and consistency among sizes.  To account for this and work around it, different primings of wrapper can be used (although it will impact uniformity of color among sizes) but the blend will also be tweaked slightly.  Again, a blender will typically "try" to develop a consistent flavor experience among the sizes but there will always be some subtle differences.
  • jd50aejd50ae West Gnawed Pencil, TNPosts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have noticed (on purpose) since this thread started that I get a lot more "air" in some of the large ring cigars I smoke. And it takes awhile for the expected flavors to kick in. Especially the larger ring Black Pearls and the biggest Cinco Vegas Golds. I do not purchase these larger sizes any more. But, I have come to really enjoying the Cinco Vegas Gold Torpedo.
  • peter4jcpeter4jc Milwaukee, WIPosts: 13,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for that very informative post @Alex_Svenson !



    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
  • Alex_SvensonAlex_Svenson Posts: 1,224 admin
    I was digging around the archives trying to find this video from a few years ago.  My explanation above discusses blend, recipe and proportions and how that impacts consistency among sizes.  A very big driver in how a cigar tastes comes from how it combusts.  Smaller ring gauges tend to combust higher temperatures and the smoke enters your palate faster and deeper.  How the smoke populates your palate has a lot to do with the flavor experience.  It is all related to the concept of the venturi effect.  This video helps explain it but think about using a big straw (big diameter) vs a small thin straw like a cocktail straw.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK1B-56P7lE


  • RhamlinRhamlin WVPosts: 8,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's also been my expierence that cigars with more different leaves in them especially from different countries are perfect for large rings. 
  • kemper74kemper74 106 S. Division St., DeRidder, LAPosts: 161 ✭✭✭
    When I first got "serious" about cigars, about 3 or 4 years ago, I came into the game right when the large rings were really taking off.  So, naturally, I followed the trend.  At first, I loved the 60+ ring due mainly due to ergonomics.  Now that my palate has matured a bit, I'm not so much into anything over a 54.
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