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A couple questions from a newbie

Completely new cigar convert here with a few comments/questions.  Started cigars maybe a month ago.  I've made a tupperdor (tall and round lock-n-lock lined with cedar sheets, with a gel stick and a Boveda packet @ 72% rH) along with 2 tough-box travel humidors.  Been casting about and enjoying straight from the store, but ready how putting them in the humidor would help them..

So I take some, place some of them in my tupperdor and a few in one of the tough boxes, also with a Boveda. (I like not having to fiddle with things, heh)  I try one about a week later, and the stick smells almost like rotten fish and tasted almost as bad!  I thought I'd ruined my cigars, but then it clicked.  It's not fish I'm smelling, but ammonia.

Now to the questions.

Is it normal for the ones at the store not to have that smell/flavor until throwing them in a humidor?  If not, what have I loused up?

Also, been enjoying some backwoods and swisher sweet "outlaws" while waiting for the cigars.. been keeping them in a humibag to keep from drying out, and noticed after about a week, they develop that same smell/flavor.  Has anyone tried aging these to see what happens?  Yeah, I know that's like asking someone to cellar MD 20/20, but if they are still 'alive' enough to produce the ammonia....  will likely try with a set just to see myself..

Comments

  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    jeddar:
    Now to the questions.

    Is it normal for the ones at the store not to have that smell/flavor until throwing them in a humidor?  If not, what have I loused up?
    you may not have messed anything up at all.

    ammonia is the smell of youth in a cigar. it means that fermentation of the leaf has not stopped. this happens from time to ti me to cigars that did not spend enough time in the aging room at the factory.

    OR

    it means that fermentation has restarted. 72% is a bit high for the Rh but that shouldnt be enough to start the fermentation process.

    what brand are they? did they come into contact with high amounts of moisture recently?
    jeddar:


    Also, been enjoying some backwoods and swisher sweet "outlaws" while waiting for the cigars.. been keeping them in a humibag to keep from drying out, and noticed after about a week, they develop that same smell/flavor.  Has anyone tried aging these to see what happens?  Yeah, I know that's like asking someone to cellar MD 20/20, but if they are still 'alive' enough to produce the ammonia....  will likely try with a set just to see myself..

    in that humi bag is there a humidification system?
    if so, take it out. a Zip-loc will be enough. thoswe cigars are made a bit differently and dont need the humidification of premium handmades.
  • kuzi16:

    ammonia is the smell of youth in a cigar. it means that fermentation of the leaf has not stopped. this happens from time to ti me to cigars that did not spend enough time in the aging room at the factory.

    OR

    it means that fermentation has restarted. 72% is a bit high for the Rh but that shouldnt be enough to start the fermentation process.

    what brand are they? did they come into contact with high amounts of moisture recently?

     

    Okay.. hmm, what rH would be best?  As far as brands, one was a Drew Natural, a couple Perdomo Reserve Champagnes, and a Brickhouse Maduro.  And no big moisture changes as far as I know.  kept them in the house and in their humidors


    jeddar:


    Also, been enjoying some backwoods and swisher sweet "outlaws" while waiting for the cigars.. been keeping them in a humibag to keep from drying out, and noticed after about a week, they develop that same smell/flavor.  Has anyone tried aging these to see what happens?  Yeah, I know that's like asking someone to cellar MD 20/20, but if they are still 'alive' enough to produce the ammonia....  will likely try with a set just to see myself..

    kuzi16:
    in that humi bag is there a humidification system?
    if so, take it out. a Zip-loc will be enough. thoswe cigars are made a bit differently and dont need the humidification of premium handmades.


    No humidification in the bag, just the slender bag they use for someone to cart home a couple sticks from the cigar store. 
  • danielzreyesdanielzreyes Posts: 8,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Boveda makes 65 and 69 rh. I personally like 69.

    Take that DE Natural out and put it in a separate tupperdor. Try to keep infused cigars separate.
    "It's plume, bro. Nothing to worry about. Got any Opus?" The suppose to be DZR
  • avengethisavengethis Sorry, I ate all your bacon!Posts: 5,456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    danielzreyes:
    Boveda makes 65 and 69 rh. I personally like 69.

    Take that DE Natural out and put it in a separate tupperdor. Try to keep infused cigars separate.
    I'm a fan of 65%. its all personal preference but 72 is a bit on the high side. I would consider at least the 69% boveda.
    Team O'Donnell FTW!

    "I've got a great cigar collection - it's actually not a collection, because that would imply I wasn't going to smoke ever last one of 'em." - Ron White
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken already sucked before joining forum,.....just sayin'.Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome to the forum. (The greatest place on earth. As far as gettin' your learnin' about cigars.) You seem to be on top of things already. As far as that tupperdor goes, and any tightly sealed container, take the gel stick out of there and just use bovedas. And, I'd let fresh air in there every couple of days. I keep cigars in all sorts of containers and I've smelled that smell before but never to a large degree. I'm betting that there's just one or two of your cigars in there that are fermenting somehow. (Hopefully it's the one you already smoked.) And I second the motion to get your RH lower with a few new bovedas. I'd go with 65% but that's just my preference. And consider buying a nice digital hygrometer (Hygroset) and learning how to salt test and calibrate it.

    Can you name the one that you smoked that had the bad ammonia taste?

    Also, not everyone who runs a cigar shop keeps proper humidity in their humidors. Usually if there's a humidity problem it's because they are keeping their stock over humidified. If you bought any from a cigar shop that over humidifies their cigars and bring them home and put them in a tightly sealed tupperdor or even a baggie, I'm wondering if, like Kuzi said, the fermentation process would start again.
  • AshMeAshMe Miami, FLPosts: 343
    avengethis:
    danielzreyes:
    Boveda makes 65 and 69 rh. I personally like 69.

    Take that DE Natural out and put it in a separate tupperdor. Try to keep infused cigars separate.
    I'm a fan of 65%. its all personal preference but 72 is a bit on the high side. I would consider at least the 69% boveda.
    I like 70-72% for long term boxed storage. When I feel like smoking a cigar in long term storage, I put it in my rotation humidor for a few days which is at 65-68%
    "Do you smoke? Mind if I do?"  - Genie, in Aladdin. 
  • Lee.mcglynnLee.mcglynn HahahahaaaaaPosts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭
    AshMe:
    avengethis:
    danielzreyes:
    Boveda makes 65 and 69 rh. I personally like 69.

    Take that DE Natural out and put it in a separate tupperdor. Try to keep infused cigars separate.
    I'm a fan of 65%. its all personal preference but 72 is a bit on the high side. I would consider at least the 69% boveda.
    I like 70-72% for long term boxed storage. When I feel like smoking a cigar in long term storage, I put it in my rotation humidor for a few days which is at 65-68%
    sounds too me like mold at 70-72...guess depends on the temps but I would be pulling my hair out at that rh and normal temps
    Money can't buy taste
  • AshMeAshMe Miami, FLPosts: 343
    ^^^ If its any consolation, I have a temp and humidity controlled cabinet that I use for long term storage with constant air circulation. Temp stays at 68 degrees
    "Do you smoke? Mind if I do?"  - Genie, in Aladdin. 
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    jeddar:
    kuzi16:

    ammonia is the smell of youth in a cigar. it means that fermentation of the leaf has not stopped. this happens from time to ti me to cigars that did not spend enough time in the aging room at the factory.

    OR

    it means that fermentation has restarted. 72% is a bit high for the Rh but that shouldnt be enough to start the fermentation process.

    what brand are they? did they come into contact with high amounts of moisture recently?

     

    Okay.. hmm, what rH would be best?  As far as brands, one was a Drew Natural, a couple Perdomo Reserve Champagnes, and a Brickhouse Maduro.  And no big moisture changes as far as I know.  kept them in the house and in their humidors


    jeddar:


    Also, been enjoying some backwoods and swisher sweet "outlaws" while waiting for the cigars.. been keeping them in a humibag to keep from drying out, and noticed after about a week, they develop that same smell/flavor.  Has anyone tried aging these to see what happens?  Yeah, I know that's like asking someone to cellar MD 20/20, but if they are still 'alive' enough to produce the ammonia....  will likely try with a set just to see myself..

    kuzi16:
    in that humi bag is there a humidification system?
    if so, take it out. a Zip-loc will be enough. thoswe cigars are made a bit differently and dont need the humidification of premium handmades.


    No humidification in the bag, just the slender bag they use for someone to cart home a couple sticks from the cigar store. 
    keep rH above 65 below 70. Not sure about the ammonia. Could be a one off deal. Not sure if you have any Spanish cedar in there but it will only help of you do.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    jeddar:
    kuzi16:

    ammonia is the smell of youth in a cigar. it means that fermentation of the leaf has not stopped. this happens from time to ti me to cigars that did not spend enough time in the aging room at the factory.

    OR

    it means that fermentation has restarted. 72% is a bit high for the Rh but that shouldnt be enough to start the fermentation process.

    what brand are they? did they come into contact with high amounts of moisture recently?

     

    Okay.. hmm, what rH would be best?  As far as brands, one was a Drew Natural, a couple Perdomo Reserve Champagnes, and a Brickhouse Maduro.  And no big moisture changes as far as I know.  kept them in the house and in their humidors


    jeddar:


    Also, been enjoying some backwoods and swisher sweet "outlaws" while waiting for the cigars.. been keeping them in a humibag to keep from drying out, and noticed after about a week, they develop that same smell/flavor.  Has anyone tried aging these to see what happens?  Yeah, I know that's like asking someone to cellar MD 20/20, but if they are still 'alive' enough to produce the ammonia....  will likely try with a set just to see myself..

    kuzi16:
    in that humi bag is there a humidification system?
    if so, take it out. a Zip-loc will be enough. thoswe cigars are made a bit differently and dont need the humidification of premium handmades.


    No humidification in the bag, just the slender bag they use for someone to cart home a couple sticks from the cigar store. 
    keep rH above 65 below 70. Not sure about the ammonia. Could be a one off deal. Not sure if you have any Spanish cedar in there but it will only help of you do.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since no one has mentioned this or asked I will. For your tupperdor did it still have a strong plastic smell before you put the cigars in? Anytime I've setup a cooler or wine fridge I've had to wash out the inside of them with water and dish soap then dry and line it with newspaper and a bowl of baking soda for 5-7 days to rid the smell first. That might be a possible explanation...
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • Ken_LightKen_Light Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭
    90+ Irishman:
    Since no one has mentioned this or asked I will. For your tupperdor did it still have a strong plastic smell before you put the cigars in? Anytime I've setup a cooler or wine fridge I've had to wash out the inside of them with water and dish soap then dry and line it with newspaper and a bowl of baking soda for 5-7 days to rid the smell first. That might be a possible explanation...
    Was gonna ask this as well.

    Also, how are you measuring rH? Is there a calibrated hygrometer here or just the number on the Boveda pack?
    ^Troll: DO NOT FEED.
  • dr_frankenstein56dr_frankenstein56 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭
    I juice up machine made cigars too...

    I have some backwoods that have been jarred up for some time and I can say I liked the change. I did too notice the smell but it did pass over time. With some regular "burping".

    I would agree what we smelled was a very young leaf. It seems to be more common in the cheaper the cigar. Atleast, in the machine made junk i love regularly. Just give it some time if you want to continue juicing up your machine mades. Also you should be storing your machine mades away from the premiums if doing this cause the probablity of mold goes way up.



    I also, run my humidors at 72. BUT its my enviroment that requires it. I have to keep my humidor wood a little extra wet so it maintains its seal in my typically bone dry DESERT enviroment. (This year being the friggin exception) I would agree a drop to a 67% Boveda Packet would be a good idea.

    Aj
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