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The JD Luken Debate Thread

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  • pelirrojopelirrojo Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭
    Nice thread. Thanks Randy.
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WITNESS 10: 'And I Could Say For Sure He Never Put His Hands Up…He Ran Towards The Officer Full Charge'

    By Paul Cassell, The Washington Post According to Witness 10, Brown then turned and ran “full charge” toward Wilson: He [Mike Brown] stopped. He did turn, he did some sort of body gesture, I’m not sure what it was, but I know it was a body gesture. And I could say for sure he never put his hands up after he did his body gesture, he ran towards the officer full charge. The officer fired several shots at him and to give an estimate, I would say roughly around five to six shots was fired at Mike Brown. Mike Brown was still coming towards the office and at this point I’m thinking, wow, is this officer missing Mike Brown at this close of a range. Mike Brown continuously came forward in the charging motion and at some point, at one point he started to slow down and he came to a stop. And when he stopped, that’s when the officer ceased fire and when he ceased fired, Mike Brown started to charge once more at him. When he charged once more, the officer returned fire with, I would say, give an estimate of three to four shots. And that’s when Mike Brown finally collapsed…. (166:21-167:18).

    With regard to the body gesture, Witness 10 explained: “All I know is it was not in a surrendering motion of I’m surrendering, putting my hands up or anything, I’m not sure. If it was like a shoulder shrug or him pulling his pants up, I’m not sure. I really don’t want to speculate [about] things….” (180:5). But “Idea [I]mmediately after he [Brown] did his body gesture, he comes for force, full charge at the officer” (180:16). Ultimately, in the view of Witness 10, the officer’s life was in jeopardy when Brown charged him from close range (206:4).
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obama Kills Tax Cut Because It Didn’t Help Illegals

    By Neil Munro, Daily Caller

    President Barack Obama quietly killed a draft tax-cut because the GOP leadership wouldn’t agree to his demand that valuable tax breaks be given to millions of illegal immigrants, according to a Politico article about the secret negotiations.

    Just before Thanksgiving, “the deal fell apart just as it seemed to be coming together… [because] Republicans worried undocumented immigrants targeted by [Obama’s Nov. 21 amnesty] would begin claiming the credits,” Politico reported.

    The GOP leadership’s reluctance to award tax-breaks to illegals suggests top leaders may use the required December budget bill to deny funds to operate Obama’s promised amnesty. So far, GOP leaders have not said if they will block the amnesty funds — despite growing GOP grassroots pressure — partly because Democrats are threatening to block the complete budget if the amnesty is blocked.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good to see you back Gordon, I'll never know why some folks will never see eye to eye, it used to be me and Xmacro, now it's you and JD. C'mon guys, E Pluribus Unum, let's get it together. All I've got, right now.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jd50ae:
    WITNESS 10: 'And I Could Say For Sure He Never Put His Hands Up…He Ran Towards The Officer Full Charge'

    By Paul Cassell, The Washington Post According to Witness 10, Brown then turned and ran “full charge” toward Wilson: He [Mike Brown] stopped. He did turn, he did some sort of body gesture, I’m not sure what it was, but I know it was a body gesture. And I could say for sure he never put his hands up after he did his body gesture, he ran towards the officer full charge. The officer fired several shots at him and to give an estimate, I would say roughly around five to six shots was fired at Mike Brown. Mike Brown was still coming towards the office and at this point I’m thinking, wow, is this officer missing Mike Brown at this close of a range. Mike Brown continuously came forward in the charging motion and at some point, at one point he started to slow down and he came to a stop. And when he stopped, that’s when the officer ceased fire and when he ceased fired, Mike Brown started to charge once more at him. When he charged once more, the officer returned fire with, I would say, give an estimate of three to four shots. And that’s when Mike Brown finally collapsed…. (166:21-167:18).

    With regard to the body gesture, Witness 10 explained: “All I know is it was not in a surrendering motion of I’m surrendering, putting my hands up or anything, I’m not sure. If it was like a shoulder shrug or him pulling his pants up, I’m not sure. I really don’t want to speculate [about] things….” (180:5). But “Idea [I]mmediately after he [Brown] did his body gesture, he comes for force, full charge at the officer” (180:16). Ultimately, in the view of Witness 10, the officer’s life was in jeopardy when Brown charged him from close range (206:4).
    JD

    Please don't confuse this issue with facts.

    Thank you.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This has certainly been bizarre. A policeman in the performance of his job is forced by a thug to defend himself and the media gives credence to a fairy tale version of events 24/7, as if gunning down black children was some kind of national pastime. There is money and power to be had for certain entities (a la Al Sharpton), in perpetuating discord and racism. A huge learning opportunity has been discarded. This story has gotten more coverage than the JFK assassination. What a shame.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Boehner faces conservative ire over plan to delay immigration fight Published December 03, 2014 FoxNews.com

    Will there be a government shutdown over immigration?

    Conservative Republicans are pushing back hard against House Speaker John Boehner's plan to effectively push off the battle over President Obama's immigration plan to next year in order to pass a spending bill, increasing the likelihood he'll need help from Democrats to get it through the House and Senate.
    The speaker on Tuesday had put forward a plan to address two tricky issues: letting Republicans vent over the president's controversial immigration executive actions, while also backing a spending bill to keep the government running past Dec. 11, when current funding runs out.
    Boehner's solution is to call a vote on a bill this week opposing and trying to block Obama's immigration orders -- though it would likely die in the Senate. Then, the House would vote next week on a bill funding the government through the full fiscal year, and funding immigration-related agencies through early next year. This would kick the fight over the president's immigration plan to 2015, when Republicans have control of both chambers.
    But that's not enough for many conservatives, who want to use the current spending fight as leverage to defund the president's plan now. They complain that the planned vote this week would merely be symbolic.
    Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., blasted Boehner's proposal in a statement late Tuesday, suggesting it violates a campaign promise by Republicans to do "everything" they can to stop executive "amnesty." "Unfortunately, the plan now being circulated in the House fails to meet that test," Sessions said.
    Sen. David Vitter, R-La., said "sending a bill to the Senate without first making an attempt to include defund language is telling the American people that you support Obama's executive amnesty. That would be a slap in the face to the voters who sent a message last month by electing Republican majorities in Congress."
    Boehner is likewise facing some pushback from conservative members of the House GOP caucus. This increases the likelihood that he'll need help from Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and her Democratic rank-and-file.
    Such an alliance would not be unprecedented. Boehner routinely has turned to Democrats to pass major pieces of legislation when he couldn't bring his full caucus on board, including to avert a partial government shutdown. Pelosi has not definitively said what she might do with the current package.
    And on the Senate side, Democratic Leader Harry Reid on Tuesday would not rule out accepting the House GOP spending proposal, though Democrats would rather see a spending bill that funds the government in its entirety through the end of the fiscal year.
    Still, Boehner and his allies are touting the working plan as the best course of action, with the understanding that they would resume the fight next year over Obama's plan to grant temporary legal status to up to 5 million illegal immigrants.
    Boehner said Tuesday that Obama has ignored the American people.
    "This is a serious breach of our Constitution," Boehner said.
    He also said lawmakers "have limited options and abilities to deal with it directly."
  • brianetz1brianetz1 Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭
    Amos Umwhat:
    This has certainly been bizarre. A policeman in the performance of his job is forced by a thug to defend himself and the media gives credence to a fairy tale version of events 24/7, as if gunning down black children was some kind of national pastime. There is money and power to be had for certain entities (a la Al Sharpton), in perpetuating discord and racism. A huge learning opportunity has been discarded. This story has gotten more coverage than the JFK assassination. What a shame.
    that's what you get when you allow the media to tell the story for 108 days. IMHO they should have decided against a grand jury and let it play out in court. The case would have fell apart before the prosecutions very eyes once witnesses were cross referenced, and the media couldn't have crafted the message that would sell their stories.

    Now, Eric Garner, all that dude was doing was trying to sell some cigarettes and was black and is now dead. That police officer is going to walk because of a grand jury decision. That should be the person the african american community is rallyign behind and holding as an example of aggressiveness toward black males by police officers.
  • RainRain Posts: 8,958 ✭✭✭
    Bob Luken:
    Here's a FOX NEWS article (I posted the whole article! Ha!) with no commentary on my part. That's right,...... I've added nothing to the conversation. Not even page breaks. Ignore it if you want to. Discuss if you want. Pitch a fit if you want. You can even try and tell me how I should or should not be posting to the NCR thread if you think I'll give a crap. Knock yourself out. - Whistleblower alleges agency cover-up over $300M ‘boondoggle’ to protect Obama nominee. Senior officials at the Social Security Administration (SSA) tried to hide a damning report on a $300 million computer system that lawmakers have called a “boondoggle” in order to protect President Obama’s nominee to lead the agency, a whistleblower claimed in an interview with FoxNews.com. Whistleblower Michael Keegan told FoxNews.com that McKinsey & Company, a consulting firm, issued a draft report in December 2013 saying the agency had spent $288 million over six years for a new computer system processing disability claims that has yet to launch. But Keegan said he was present at a meeting of senior officials in May of this year where they decided to sit on the report as long as Carolyn Colvin’s nomination for commissioner was pending. “They hid the report,” he told FoxNews.com. Keegan said it was discussed at that May meeting that Colvin, the acting commissioner, had been briefed on the findings. He added: “There is absolutely no way that [Colvin] could be in the dark” on the effort to hide it. Keegan spoke with FoxNews.com after Republican senators threatened earlier this week to block Colvin’s nomination until a probe of the computer project is done. Keegan, who worked as associate commissioner for facilities and left the agency earlier this year, explained that he brought his concerns to Congress over the summer. The McKinsey report itself, a final version of which was released in June, said the project, which remains in the testing phase and predated Colvin’s time at the helm, was beset by delays -- and agency leaders had decided to “reset.” The study found that while the plan is “conceptually sound,” execution “has fallen short.” For the past five years, the report said, the release date “consistently” was projected 24-32 months out. The report, together with Keegan’s allegations and the concerns of lawmakers, point to trouble ahead for Colvin’s nomination. Obama nominated Colvin, who has served as acting head since early 2013, in June of this year to be commissioner. Several top-ranking lawmakers have been beating the drum about the $300 million computer system since the summer, including about the possibility of a cover-up. House oversight committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., and other lawmakers wrote in July that whistleblowers had told them “senior agency staff placed a very close hold” on the report to make sure details were kept “secret” until after Colvin’s confirmation. They called these claims “deeply disturbing.” Further, they wrote that the agency effectively “wasted” $300 million on the “IT boondoggle.” Around the same time, Rep. Sam Johnson, R-Texas, who leads the House Social Security subcommittee, wrote to Colvin questioning whether the agency had “something to hide.” He called the “wasted” taxpayer dollars a “disgrace.” Lawmakers’ concerns culminated earlier this week when all Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee wrote to Colvin complaining about the “disturbing” allegations over “mismanagement and waste.” They cited an “interim” report by the agency’s inspector general “that raised, but did not resolve” issues with officials’ conduct, and an ongoing “criminal investigation.” They wrote: “Moreover, we have received information from whistleblowers that the ongoing investigation has centered around the activities of certain members of your immediate office, including several high-level agency officials. We cannot in good faith allow a nomination for any position that requires the advice and consent of the Senate to proceed to a vote as long as the specter of a potential criminal investigation surrounds the nominee and/or those in their inner circle.” The lawmakers urged Colvin to address her role regarding this inquiry before they can vote on the nomination before the full Senate. A Social Security spokeswoman told the Associated Press, in response to the senators’ letter, that Colvin “is not personally the subject of any criminal investigation." Spokeswoman LaVenia LaVelle said agency officials previously briefed lawmakers on this matter and "the acting commissioner will respond timely and fully to the members' requests, and continue to cooperate with Congress and any related investigation." Colvin also told the AP that she's "always met the highest ethical standards." Asked Friday about Keegan’s specific claims, LaVelle told FoxNews.com the agency “cannot comment on an open investigation.” She referred FoxNews.com to the inspector general’s office, which also could not comment and said the case is now being handled by its counterpart in the Small Business Administration. An aide in that office would not discuss the probe, but confirmed they were reviewing an "allegation of wrongdoing involving SSA personnel." The finance committee advanced Colvin’s nomination earlier this year, but it still hasn’t passed the full Senate. The problems could mean her nomination is pushed off to the new Congress next year, when Republicans have full control. Morris Fischer, an attorney representing Keegan, called the computer project a “debacle.” Keegan left the agency over the summer, after he says he was retaliated against for earlier complaints. He said he first brought his concerns to Congress after watching Colvin claim during a House subcommittee hearing in February that the agency’s IT projects were on track and under budget. “I knew that that was totally false,” Keegan said.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    brianetz1:
    Amos Umwhat:
    This has certainly been bizarre. A policeman in the performance of his job is forced by a thug to defend himself and the media gives credence to a fairy tale version of events 24/7, as if gunning down black children was some kind of national pastime. There is money and power to be had for certain entities (a la Al Sharpton), in perpetuating discord and racism. A huge learning opportunity has been discarded. This story has gotten more coverage than the JFK assassination. What a shame.
    that's what you get when you allow the media to tell the story for 108 days. IMHO they should have decided against a grand jury and let it play out in court. The case would have fell apart before the prosecutions very eyes once witnesses were cross referenced, and the media couldn't have crafted the message that would sell their stories.

    Now, Eric Garner, all that dude was doing was trying to sell some cigarettes and was black and is now dead. That police officer is going to walk because of a grand jury decision. That should be the person the african american community is rallyign behind and holding as an example of aggressiveness toward black males by police officers.
    No doubt, that was some really messed up police work. There needs to be some perspective. What's next? "He was jay-walking, I hadto use deadly force!"
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • RainRain Posts: 8,958 ✭✭✭
    Don't know the whole story so can't comment specifically. Cops tell you you're under arrest, ON THE SPOT is not the place to fight it...save it for the courtroom.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rain:
    Don't know the whole story so can't comment specifically. Cops tell you you're under arrest, ON THE SPOT is not the place to fight it...save it for the courtroom.
    Absolutely true, but I still expect the police to have a sense of proportion. It would be nice if everyone did, and then we wouldn't need police, but that's not going to happen.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amos Umwhat:
    ... but I still expect the police to have a sense of proportion.
    Can't lay it all on the police. Look at the Eric Garner mess. Whatever Progressive genius first figured out early last century that government ought to be in the business of regimenting preferred behavior of a previously free people by draconian tax policy ... that well meaning liberal sure opened Pandora's box. Jack the price of cigs to seventeen bucks a pack, all for the good of your fellow man who you feel you have a responsibility to protect from himself, of course, because you are so much smarter, of course... combine that with no jobs, guess what? Someone is going to score a carton on Jersey, come back and sell singles on a street corner to get by. Who sent the cops out to bust poor fools selling loosies? That's the insanity here. There's no real crime in New York needs the cops' attention? Get real.

    Who comes up with the laws that make Brown need blunts and make cigarillos worth stealing? Who comes up with the laws that make loosies a viable business? Where's their sense of proportion?

    No one would murmur if the same cop shot a thug who robbed the till at knife point, or if the same cop strangled a guy beating schidt out of a woman on the street. It's the triviality of the act being criminalized by systematically over-reaching over-intrusive over-sized over-responsible for underlings government that makes these deaths unjust; not so much what the cops did.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    webmost:
    Amos Umwhat:
    ... but I still expect the police to have a sense of proportion.
    Can't lay it all on the police. Look at the Eric Garner mess. Whatever Progressive genius first figured out early last century that government ought to be in the business of regimenting preferred behavior of a previously free people by draconian tax policy ... that well meaning liberal sure opened Pandora's box. Jack the price of cigs to seventeen bucks a pack, all for the good of your fellow man who you feel you have a responsibility to protect from himself, of course, because you are so much smarter, of course... combine that with no jobs, guess what? Someone is going to score a carton on Jersey, come back and sell singles on a street corner to get by. Who sent the cops out to bust poor fools selling loosies? That's the insanity here. There's no real crime in New York needs the cops' attention? Get real.

    Who comes up with the laws that make Brown need blunts and make cigarillos worth stealing? Who comes up with the laws that make loosies a viable business? Where's their sense of proportion?

    No one would murmur if the same cop shot a thug who robbed the till at knife point, or if the same cop strangled a guy beating schidt out of a woman on the street. It's the triviality of the act being criminalized by systematically over-reaching over-intrusive over-sized over-responsible for underlings government that makes these deaths unjust; not so much what the cops did.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    I decidedly agree with your root cause analysis, absolutely, and I still think I should be able to expect the cops to exercise restraint with a sense of proportion.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • dr_frankenstein56dr_frankenstein56 Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭
    very very interesting point webmost. reaction to action....

    Aj
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amos Umwhat:
    I decidedly agree with your root cause analysis, absolutely, and I still think I should be able to expect the cops to exercise restraint with a sense of proportion.
    Testimony I read said Brown reached in the cop's car window and punched the cop, then grabbed his pistol and tried to wrestle it out of his hand. The pistol went off twice in that struggle, shooting out through the inside of the car door. Then Brown fled. At this point, proportion be damned; Brown was going to get arrested and/or shot, period.

    Eric Garner was a very different situation. Five cops came to bust a fellow selling loosies. Five cops! What a ridiculous waste of resources! Five cops on one side, six-bit cigs on the other. WTF? There's no muggers on the subway? There's no perverts in the park? Nobody got burgled last night? How in blazes do you justify five cop salaries, training, pensions, benefits, and equipment to bust this poor slob over and over again for selling single cigarettes on a street corner? No. I don't buy it. Icing on the cake: At least one of the five you send, the one who strangled the dude, he already had a history of going overboard. Strip-searched two fellows in the middle of the street. Pantsed them. Union won't let you fire him? You can't find some desk job for this knucklehead? No. No. Proportion was lost way before the five guys got there.

    Then how about the guy who recorded a vid showing Garner getting strangled... two days later, cops just happen to bust him on a weapons charge. Mighty suspicious.

    Great expectations do not guarantee great results. Dealing with humans here. If they were busting thugs for real crimes, we would excuse over-reaction.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    webmost:
    Amos Umwhat:
    I decidedly agree with your root cause analysis, absolutely, and I still think I should be able to expect the cops to exercise restraint with a sense of proportion.
    Testimony I read said Brown reached in the cop's car window and punched the cop, then grabbed his pistol and tried to wrestle it out of his hand. The pistol went off twice in that struggle, shooting out through the inside of the car door. Then Brown fled. At this point, proportion be damned; Brown was going to get arrested and/or shot, period.

    Eric Garner was a very different situation. Five cops came to bust a fellow selling loosies. Five cops! What a ridiculous waste of resources! Five cops on one side, six-bit cigs on the other. WTF? There's no muggers on the subway? There's no perverts in the park? Nobody got burgled last night? How in blazes do you justify five cop salaries, training, pensions, benefits, and equipment to bust this poor slob over and over again for selling single cigarettes on a street corner? No. I don't buy it. Icing on the cake: At least one of the five you send, the one who strangled the dude, he already had a history of going overboard. Strip-searched two fellows in the middle of the street. Pantsed them. Union won't let you fire him? You can't find some desk job for this knucklehead? No. No. Proportion was lost way before the five guys got there.

    Then how about the guy who recorded a vid showing Garner getting strangled... two days later, cops just happen to bust him on a weapons charge. Mighty suspicious.

    Great expectations do not guarantee great results. Dealing with humans here. If they were busting thugs for real crimes, we would excuse over-reaction.

    So, it seems we agree, all sense of proportion was lost in this situation. The irony of my position is that society at large must grasp the reality of all you've said, and react in a mature and sensible way to develop new norms before my wish could come true. Were this to ever happen, this situation would be so obviously insane to all that heard of it as to be unbelievable.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The daughter of the man who died, Eric Garner, has said it was not racially motivated.
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What is with this "person" and records?

    First "The Whitewater Papers", and now State Dept. 'stonewalling' AP requests for Clinton's files.

    The Whitewater Papers by the way (for those of you who have not read the first hand account "Dereliction of Duty") were never more then 2 feet from "her" at any time.
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jd50ae:
    What is with this "person" and records?

    First "The Whitewater Papers", and now State Dept. 'stonewalling' AP requests for Clinton's files.

    The Whitewater Papers by the way (for those of you who have not read the first hand account "Dereliction of Duty") were never more then 2 feet from "her" at any time.
    Not familiar with those. I've just never been a Hillary fan. She's always seemed to have a problem with,...hmm,...veracity? is that the right word?....mendaciousness?...at any rate, its' something like that.

    I think she's a cynic, who'd say or do anything to get what she wants.
    I could be wrong.
    I think I was initially turned off by the gingham dress. Well, not the dress itself, so much as the way she abandoned that image as soon as the votes were in. All an act for the suckers.

    It came to me, the word I was looking for; duplicity. Yes, I think that's it.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots face it, she wants power and "she" will stoop to any antic to get it. I would not trust "her" with a dime and "she" wants the mint. If the "liberals" promote "her" as a candidate they will lose, big time. In my heart I think a lot about the clintonistas is being held back until closer to the election and "she" is going to be burnt big time (at least I hope so). I hope "she" gets it so bad that we never hear about their ilk again.
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I remember when ol' Slick Willie was elected the first time, someone asked me what I thought about the outcome of the election and I said, Well, I don't like our new president worth a damn and I'm not real happy with her husband, either.... ??
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obama Opens Fraud-Ridden Benefits Programs To Illegal Immigrants

    BY BYRON YORK,Washington Examiner President Obama's unilateral executive action on immigration will make hundreds of thousands, perhaps more than a million, illegal immigrants eligible for federal transfer payments. That will be done primarily through two widely used programs — the Earned Income Tax Credit, or EITC, and the Additional Child Tax Credit, or ACTC.

    As it turns out, those two programs are already among the most corrupt and fraud-ridden in the entire federal government. A newly-released report from the inspector general of the Internal Revenue Service confirms that the EITC is plagued by fraud (which was already well known) and also reveals for the first time that the ACTC is even worse.

    The two programs, intended for low-income workers, are what is known as refundable tax credits. That means they give workers a tax refund that is larger than their tax liability. So a family with a tax bill of $1,000 might receive an EITC "refund" of $5,000, meaning the family doesn't write a check to the government but rather receives a check from the government. The ACTC works similarly for low-income workers with children.
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,711 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jlmarta:
    I remember when ol' Slick Willie was elected the first time, someone asked me what I thought about the outcome of the election and I said, Well, I don't like our new president worth a damn and I'm not real happy with her husband, either.... ??
    LOL
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Federal Judge Finds Obama Amnesty Is Unconstitutional

    By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times

    A federal judge has found parts of President Obama’s new deportation amnesty to be unconstitutional, issuing a scathing memo Tuesday accusing him of usurping Congress’s power to make laws, and dismantling most of the White House’s legal reasoning for circumventing Congress.

    Judge Arthur J. Schwab, sitting in the western district of Pennsylvania, said presidents do have powers to use discretion in deciding how to enforce the law, but said Mr. Obama’s new policy goes well beyond that, setting up a full system for granting legal protections to broad groups of individuals.

    The judge also said the policy allows illegal immigrants “to obtain substantive rights.”

    The memo came as part of a deportation case before the judge, and Judge Schwab’s order does not invalidate the president’s policies. But it serves as a warning shot as other direct challenges to the new amnesty begin to make their way through the courts.

    image
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ...if you are HHS or any other law enforcement and you can see and add 1 and 1. It should not be impossible with all the government bureaucracy's that had to be stamping and inspecting this truck from the US to its present location in the hands of terrorists.

    Texas plumber's old truck resurfaces in Syria, mounted with terrorists' guns Published December 17, 2014 FoxNews.com

    Mark Oberholtzer, who owns Mark-1 Plumbing in Texas City, said his company has been flooded with calls after Islamic militants posted this photo on Twitter.

    A Texas plumber has been receiving threats after a photo emerged of Islamic extremists in Syria firing a high-powered gun from the bed of his old pickup, which still bears his company's logo on the door.

    An extremist group, Ansar al-Deen Front, posted the photo of its fighters aboard the Ford F-250 sometime on Monday. That prompted a flood of calls to Mark Oberholtzer, who owns Mark-1 Plumbing in Texas City, and has nothing to do with Syria's bloody civil war.

    "How it ended up in Syria, I'll never know," Oberholtzer told The Galveston Daily News.

    The photograph spread online and Oberholtzer told the paper that he traded in the truck three years ago to an area auto dealership. AutoNation, the Houston dealership, told KHOU.com that the truck was auctioned and was likely traded from owner to owner over the course of three years.

    'We have nothing to do with terror at all' - Jeff Oberholtzer

    Oberholtzer was surprised the auto dealership sold the truck with the company’s name still on the door.

    "They [AutoNation] were supposed to have done it [covered the decals] and it looks like they didn't do it," he said.

    AutoNation did not immediately return a phone call from Fox News.

    Oberholtzer owned the mom-and-pop plumbing company for 32 years and said his business has received a thousand calls and faxes about the photo.

    "A few of the people are really ugly," he told the paper. "I just want it to go away, to tell you the truth."

    His son told KHOU.com that the family his hard working and has no ties to terror.
    "We have nothing to do with terror at all," Jeff Oberholtzer said.
  • dr_frankenstein56dr_frankenstein56 Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭
    jd50ae:
    ...if you are HHS or any other law enforcement and you can see and add 1 and 1. It should not be impossible with all the government bureaucracy's that had to be stamping and inspecting this truck from the US to its present location in the hands of terrorists.

    Texas plumber's old truck resurfaces in Syria, mounted with terrorists' guns Published December 17, 2014 FoxNews.com

    Mark Oberholtzer, who owns Mark-1 Plumbing in Texas City, said his company has been flooded with calls after Islamic militants posted this photo on Twitter.

    A Texas plumber has been receiving threats after a photo emerged of Islamic extremists in Syria firing a high-powered gun from the bed of his old pickup, which still bears his company's logo on the door.

    An extremist group, Ansar al-Deen Front, posted the photo of its fighters aboard the Ford F-250 sometime on Monday. That prompted a flood of calls to Mark Oberholtzer, who owns Mark-1 Plumbing in Texas City, and has nothing to do with Syria's bloody civil war.

    "How it ended up in Syria, I'll never know," Oberholtzer told The Galveston Daily News.

    The photograph spread online and Oberholtzer told the paper that he traded in the truck three years ago to an area auto dealership. AutoNation, the Houston dealership, told KHOU.com that the truck was auctioned and was likely traded from owner to owner over the course of three years.

    'We have nothing to do with terror at all' - Jeff Oberholtzer

    Oberholtzer was surprised the auto dealership sold the truck with the company’s name still on the door.

    "They [AutoNation] were supposed to have done it [covered the decals] and it looks like they didn't do it," he said.

    AutoNation did not immediately return a phone call from Fox News.

    Oberholtzer owned the mom-and-pop plumbing company for 32 years and said his business has received a thousand calls and faxes about the photo.

    "A few of the people are really ugly," he told the paper. "I just want it to go away, to tell you the truth."

    His son told KHOU.com that the family his hard working and has no ties to terror.
    "We have nothing to do with terror at all," Jeff Oberholtzer said.
    I seen this, Thats F'n hilarious! I reckon the same thing might have happened to a truck i had sold awhile back. guy from mexico came in bought it in 20 minutes after i put it on craigslist. Funny stuff right there!

    Aj
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why isn't there a Men Only shopping day? Nationwide, maybe a holiday.
  • First_WarriorFirst_Warrior Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Because we don't wander around aimlessly shopping. We know what we want when we go into a store, we get it and we leave. At least I do.
  • FireRobFireRob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭
    jd50ae:
    Why isn't there a Men Only shopping day? Nationwide, maybe a holiday.
    I thought that was Christmas Eve? Some how I got all my shopping done before this (cause I had to work this day) but usually when I am out shopping on Christmas Eve it seems to usually be men
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