U.S. pays millions in SS benefits to **** war criminals

raisindot

You think welfare abuse is bad? How about the U.S. giving millions of dollars in Social Security benefits to **** war criminals it expelled from the U.S. from 1979 to 2007.

Recipients included SS troopers, death camp guards, and a rocket researcher who used slave labor. This practice, dating back to 1979, was used by the Justice Department for decades to convince these war criminals to leave the U.S. voluntarily, rather than face lengthy deportation hearings. At least 38 of 66 deported **** war criminals got to keep their benefits. Four living **** war criinals continue to receive benefits, including two who former concentration camp guards.

Source: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/97f4f581d4a7485e9878075021c49b43/expelled-***-paid-millions-social-security

The3Stogies

That's just not right on the face of it, I had read something about this but no real details. That was a better article you posted. The Russians would have just shot them probably. Shouldn't these guys have been tried by the military? Now this was the Justice Dept doing this?

raisindot

At the end of World War II, the U.S. military and the OSS allowed hundreds of **** war criminals to emigrate to the U.S. and thousands more migrate to South America. The most notable of the U.S. *** was Wehrner Von Braun, who designed the V2 rocket that killed thousands of Britons and Americans, using hundreds of slave laborers to build his weapons of mass destruction. In the U.S. he was instrumental in developing rocketry for America's space program, but never spent a day in prison for his crimes.

dr_frankenstein56

Thats kinda 2 sided on Von Brauns part. I dont think he activly "Killed" anybody... he just designed the weapon. Thats like saying all of the people who built the atomic bomb murdered all of those japanese people. Im sure we would use slave labor as well if we were that deep in the war machine.

You dont fire all of the opposing companys employees just because they were taken over by yours. .. you hire them, and suck them of all there knowledge. Thats just playing the game.... Nuthings right in winning.

Aj

0patience

AJ hit it on the head.
Something to consider.
Had the Germans won the war, Einstein would have been tried as a war criminal.
He urged Roosevelt to have the bomb made, was in on the designing and making of the bomb.
He regretted that decision until he died, yet the justification was there and he knew it.

Most of the German scientists (with exception of a few lunatic scientists) were guilty of designing weapons and following orders of their head of the country.

The German Reich ruled by instilling fear into their people. Do as they were told or be killed.
Most did as they were told, which made them war criminals.
And the US govt allowed some of those people to come here and work and now some people are shocked that they worked in the US (some becoming US citizens) and are collecting social security, that they put into for many years.

Sometimes, one should look at both sides of the coin to see the whole picture.

Just my opinion.

raisindot

Sorry, but I disagree. Yes, it is the winners of the war who have the right to determine who the war criminals on the losing side were, but a comparison of the Los Alamos scientists to Von Braun isn't equivalent. Nor is the argument that Von Braun and other scientists working on **** WMDs were "just following orders" a valid one.

Von Braun was an eager and willing member of the **** party and the SS. He was very involved not only in developing the rockets but in locating and building the launching sites and overseeing and improving the launches to make sure the V2s reached their locations. He and other German scientists were hardly "victims" who were forced" into supporting the ***--they were all too willing participants. Had they been morally opposed to *** they could easily have sabatoged research efforts without the *** suspecting foul play, since Hitler in general did not have a lot of faith in science anyway and the Gestapo wouldn't have been smart enough to figure out why these systems weren't working (that's why they never took atomic weapons all that seriously or punished Heisenberg and other physicists who never succeeded in that program). But they didn't. Instead, they applied their full energy, using slave labor to build their weapons in full support of **** ideology. Von Braun was no babe in the wood, and I would think that there are still thousands of survivors of the V2 attacks who lost parents, siblings, relatives and friends who were po'd that Von Braun never paid a penalty for his war crimes. Had the Brits had the power to grab Von Braun, they very likely would have tried and incarcerated him, at least for a period of time.

Contrast this to the Los Alamos scientists, nearly all of whom--including Einstein--had fled Europe in the face of the growing *** threat (a huge number were Jewish). Any German scientist could have left Germany before the war started. But they didn't. They stayed and became willing accomplices.

Another key difference: Once the Los Alamos scientists had developed the bomb, they had absolutely no control over its use. In fact, many of the scientists, like Oppenheimer, realized shortly after the first test how terrible this weapon was and opposed its use. Von Braun had no such moral reservations. He wanted his V2 rockets to wreak death and destruction, and was personally involved in every aspect to make them more destructive.

And had Germany won the war, Einstein wouldn't have been tried for war crimes. He'd simply be killed for being a Jew, as would every other Jewish person in America.

And, had Germany won the war, Einstein and the Los Alamost scientists wouldn't have been executed as war criminals. They would have executed simply for being Jews. Another significant difference and reason for not equating Von Braun and them.

dr_frankenstein56

raisindot:

Sorry, but I disagree. Yes, it is the winners of the war who have the right to determine who the war criminals on the losing side were, but a comparison of the Los Alamos scientists to Von Braun isn't equivalent. Nor is the argument that Von Braun and other scientists working on **** WMDs were "just following orders" a valid one.

Von Braun was an eager and willing member of the **** party and the SS. He was very involved not only in developing the rockets but in locating and building the launching sites and overseeing and improving the launches to make sure the V2s reached their locations. He and other German scientists were hardly "victims" who were forced" into supporting the ***--they were all too willing participants. Had they been morally opposed to *** they could easily have sabatoged research efforts without the *** suspecting foul play, since Hitler in general did not have a lot of faith in science anyway and the Gestapo wouldn't have been smart enough to figure out why these systems weren't working (that's why they never took atomic weapons all that seriously or punished Heisenberg and other physicists who never succeeded in that program). But they didn't. Instead, they applied their full energy, using slave labor to build their weapons in full support of **** ideology. Von Braun was no babe in the wood, and I would think that there are still thousands of survivors of the V2 attacks who lost parents, siblings, relatives and friends who were po'd that Von Braun never paid a penalty for his war crimes. Had the Brits had the power to grab Von Braun, they very likely would have tried and incarcerated him, at least for a period of time.

Contrast this to the Los Alamos scientists, nearly all of whom--including Einstein--had fled Europe in the face of the growing *** threat (a huge number were Jewish). Any German scientist could have left Germany before the war started. But they didn't. They stayed and became willing accomplices.

Another key difference: Once the Los Alamos scientists had developed the bomb, they had absolutely no control over its use. In fact, many of the scientists, like Oppenheimer, realized shortly after the first test how terrible this weapon was and opposed its use. Von Braun had no such moral reservations. He wanted his V2 rockets to wreak death and destruction, and was personally involved in every aspect to make them more destructive.

And had Germany won the war, Einstein wouldn't have been tried for war crimes. He'd simply be killed for being a Jew, as would every other Jewish person in America.

And, had Germany won the war, Einstein and the Los Alamost scientists wouldn't have been executed as war criminals. They would have executed simply for being Jews. Another significant difference and reason for not equating Von Braun and them.

Ok lets make this simple.

I used to design and manufacture IEDS for the US Army. I openly agreed to do it to support my country. I did indeed want these devices to maime and destroy just like they were doing to us. We taught this to opposing rebels and groups to use and disseminate the technology.

I would consider this to be the "Scum" of the weapons world. And not exactly an honorable thing making such a cheap and deadly weapon thats incredibly effective yet tends to have excessive collateral damage to non militants.

Does this make me a war criminal?

Should I be tried and hung for supporting my country?

I could leave the country tomorrow if i wanted. But I love my home... my way of life.... does this make what i did wrong?

Aj

raisindot

dr_frankenstein56:

Ok lets make this simple.

I used to design and manufacture IEDS for the US Army. I openly agreed to do it to support my country. I did indeed want these devices to maime and destroy just like they were doing to us. We taught this to opposing rebels and groups to use and disseminate the technology.

I would consider this to be the "Scum" of the weapons world. And not exactly an honorable thing making such a cheap and deadly weapon thats incredibly effective yet tends to have excessive collateral damage to non militants.

Does this make me a war criminal?

Should I be tried and hung for supporting my country?

I could leave the country tomorrow if i wanted. But I love my home... my way of life.... does this make what i did wrong?

Aj

Of course not--you're one of the good guys! Remember--it's the winners who get to determine who the war criminals on the losing side are and mete out appropriate punishments. And, importantly, you didn't yourself deploy these weapons, plan specific attacks or launch them or whatever in a war zone (I make that assumption. Maybe you did, and even if you did you were on the "good side" of the conflict, and therefore are not a war criminal.). Those who fired the weapons you helped create would make a far more definite fit for the definition of war criminal ONLY IF THE OTHER SIDE WON. But, again, I wouldn't consider any U.S. or allied soldier to be a war criminal. They're the good guys.

And I wouldn't necessarily say that all of the scientists who developed weapons for the N*zis were war criminals. Although at the same time, had I been in charge of OSS at the end of WWII, I wouldn't have been so generous in allowing them to come to the U.S.---I would've let the Britains have a whack at them first. But, unlike most German scientists, Von Braun designed the weapons and then fired them, killing not British soldiers but British civilians. To me, that makes him a war criminal.

The overall point I'm trying to make is that the U.S. let thousands of people who did very evil things come to the U.S. after WWII. To me, allowing concentration camp guards to come to the U.S. without going to trial and letting them raise families and then, when justice finally catches up with them, to be allowed to continue to collect Social Security after they're deported is a terrible and shameful thing.