Mans contentious insanity, St Augustine's take
Amos_Umwhat
Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
I check out the news these days by skimming MSN & Yahoo News, looking closer at what interests me or catches my eye, as I imagine most of us do nowadays. Yesterday, something caught my eye, and while I didn't look into it too deeply, it wasn't really a very deep subject. Today, another very different, yet similar in some ways story did the same.
The first story was that some group somewhere had won a great victory by eliminating the skirt on the cutout figure that indicates women's restrooms. Showed a little figure with a pants-suit. This reminded me of JD's discussion of a couple of weeks ago, "Stop it, enough is enough". Someone somewhere ignorantly believes they are working for tolerance by eliminating the skirt, using the pants-suit. The reality is that they are practicing intolerance by ramming their stupid views down everyone's throats.
The next story was about ISIS in Iraq, enforcing their belief that it is God's will that men not shave. These morons are conducting house to house inspections to make sure that no fool has offended God almighty by shaving their face.
To me, these two groups are moral and intellectual equals. The only difference is that the ISIS folks are more likely to be armed, and shoot you, but I think the bathroom monitors secretly long for such power.
Well, this got me to thinking about how insane peoples behavior is. En masse, whole groups of people get all steamed up about the most insignificant things and work themselves into frenzied fits of rage. Why in the world do we do this? We seem to be committed to a culture of contention. We can't even try to solve legitimate problems within society without declaring "War on this" or "War on that". War on everything. What causes all this?
These thoughts brought to mind a passage in Book XVIII of St. Augustine's "City of God", which I've been reading. Augustine is discussing the Greek philosophers, and the way that while they all claim to be searching for Mans happiness, there is constant conflict of views, and people are constantly changing between the various views, and the conflicts and confusion that ensue.
Consider, if you will, the following words:
"No wonder, then, that this earthly city has been given the symbolic name of Babylon, for Babylon means confusion, ... Actually, her diabolical king does not care a straw how many contradictory opinions she harbors or how her people squabble over them, so long as he goes on in possession of them and all their errors--a tyranny they deserve by reason of their enormous and manifold ungodliness."
1600 years later, we still aren't learning, still being fooled by the same old tricks.
The first story was that some group somewhere had won a great victory by eliminating the skirt on the cutout figure that indicates women's restrooms. Showed a little figure with a pants-suit. This reminded me of JD's discussion of a couple of weeks ago, "Stop it, enough is enough". Someone somewhere ignorantly believes they are working for tolerance by eliminating the skirt, using the pants-suit. The reality is that they are practicing intolerance by ramming their stupid views down everyone's throats.
The next story was about ISIS in Iraq, enforcing their belief that it is God's will that men not shave. These morons are conducting house to house inspections to make sure that no fool has offended God almighty by shaving their face.
To me, these two groups are moral and intellectual equals. The only difference is that the ISIS folks are more likely to be armed, and shoot you, but I think the bathroom monitors secretly long for such power.
Well, this got me to thinking about how insane peoples behavior is. En masse, whole groups of people get all steamed up about the most insignificant things and work themselves into frenzied fits of rage. Why in the world do we do this? We seem to be committed to a culture of contention. We can't even try to solve legitimate problems within society without declaring "War on this" or "War on that". War on everything. What causes all this?
These thoughts brought to mind a passage in Book XVIII of St. Augustine's "City of God", which I've been reading. Augustine is discussing the Greek philosophers, and the way that while they all claim to be searching for Mans happiness, there is constant conflict of views, and people are constantly changing between the various views, and the conflicts and confusion that ensue.
Consider, if you will, the following words:
"No wonder, then, that this earthly city has been given the symbolic name of Babylon, for Babylon means confusion, ... Actually, her diabolical king does not care a straw how many contradictory opinions she harbors or how her people squabble over them, so long as he goes on in possession of them and all their errors--a tyranny they deserve by reason of their enormous and manifold ungodliness."
1600 years later, we still aren't learning, still being fooled by the same old tricks.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
2
Comments
Some times I feel unlucky to be as old as I am because I understood every word in your post.
I'm 45 and young people call me old and older people call me young and I agree with MOST everything! I don't understand the cramming down our throats. I have been alienated by society for most of my life by taking the stance that the race problem was not a black and white problem but a green problem. The very few wealthy people (green) in this country have accumulated a lot of wealth (green) by keeping poor\working class white people and poor\working class black people fighting each other through imagery and media coverage distorting our views.
We were distracted by this fight while they stockpiled all the money (green). Americans in general have finally got their heads out of the sand and people (black, white, men, women, straight, gay,..etc) are accumulating green.
The reason I don't understand the cramming down our throats is this --- the only woman I see wearing skirts any more are wearing them so high they are showing @$$ cheeks! I wish they would stop so I can walk around the mall with my 10 year old comfortably. At work - there is the occasional sun dress on Fridays - but woman are mostly wearing pant suits. I asked my wife why she doesn't wear a skirt and was enlightened by her response. Skirts are a symbol of when women were not considered equal and allowed to vote or own property. "You don't wear pants - you wear a skirt" "Do you stand or sit when you pee?" After that discussion I understood why women don't like the imagery of a skirt - probably the same reason I don't like the imagery of black men in chains.
Skirts!
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
The point is that the whole thing is much ado about nothing, another trivial distraction for petty people to obsess over, in order that the real problems we face are overlooked, sidelined, ignored.
The image of the skirted female was familiar, distinguishable, easily recognizable, and completely non-threatening. Now, to use the pants-suit symbol, the hips had to be accentuated in order for the female to be distinguishable. So, in a couple years, will there be fools up-in-arms over the wide hips? And, considering the obesity epidemic, will young people know that once men and women were shaped differently?
Nonsense.
God is offended by men shaving?
Nonsense.
Men and women are exactly the same creatures?
Nonsense.
Vive le differance.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I'm never going to say how anyone feels is nonsense.
If a woman tells me she doesn't like skirts because the image represents a time to her when her grandmother was made to feel subservient to men and not allowed to vote - who am I to tell her differently.
Where are you with the midcalf skirts? Servers in restaurants don't even wear skirts anymore - they are pants suits.
Any image you have of a woman from the 60s is not going to be an image that represents woman on equal footing as men. You won't find one of female CEOs or female Doctors, but that's ok because we have grown. Even the image of Marilyn Monroe is misogynistic - it doesn't represent equality - the message is simple and plain its sexual objectivity but I like it
especially - happy wife happy life!!!!!!
let's make sure everyone can read and write and stop using pictures like we are illiterate.....I'll even vote for a B for Boys and G for Girls for those that don't know the difference between Male and Female.....
And, let's spend the time on the real problems like government Misspending!!
The world is changing and fast...and we need to put our heads together to determine America's roll in this new world.
China owns all our debt....and according to a study published last week this generation is loosing faith in religion at the fastest rate ever. We have an infrastructure in this country needing upgraded and we continue to send money to every other Nation in the world for them to fix their problems. We need to take two steps back and put the focus on fixing things HERE! This generation is exposed to more than we know and more than we care to explain. Explaining means owning our mistakes and being honest with them. That means saying I'm sorry and that acknowledges weakness. That is something we have never done but I know this....These youth are becoming unguided non-believers in God and if we don't start addressing their feelings and INVESTING in this country these frustrated and unguided youth are going to be exploited on social media and the internet by ISIS.
And, on that note, I'm not going to insist that men begin wearing kilts. They would have to do this because I'm offended. I'm offended because in the past, the English king declared that my family's land was his for raising sheep, he drove my family off their lands, and forced the men to wear pants, after carefully making sure they were disarmed. He also had the children beaten and had their fingers broken if they spoke their native language in public schools. Shall I cling to this forever? Should I demand reparations?
Nonsense.
When I worked as a welder, I once had a job working alongside a woman who did not produce 10% of what I did, yet she was paid 20% more than I was, because she was a woman and no one dared to challenge her position as a Class A welder, whereas I was a Class B welder. Where is the outrage? I'm OK with it, because maybe there was a readjustment time needed. It's time to get over it.
When I was looking for that job, I interviewed at a place where the foreman told me: "God I wish I could hire you, you're exactly what I am looking for. Unfortunately, you're a white man. I have to hire a minority or a female." I was trying to feed my family. Where was the outrage? Lost my house.
I now work in a female dominated field. I'm an RN, with a BSN. My classmate, female, with exactly the same degree, who was 20 years younger than me, NO real world experience was given $1.25 an hour additional pay for her BSN, the same hiring that gave me $.25 for my BSN. By the way, my GPA was over a point higher than hers. Who was marching in the streets over that little discrepancy? In essence, I was given less because of my gender. Where's the outrage?
These are examples of equality, in modern terms. As long as I'm less, they're equal.
Nonsense.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I hear your anger but sounds like your mad at the wrong people. My house was firebombed when I was kid. It could have been for many reasons but I'm guessing it was because we were black in a white neighborhood. I'm not mad at white people.
I have lost jobs because white managers spoke disrespectfully to me in front of others and was fired when I called them on it forcing my wife and I to be evicted. I'm not mad at white people.
To this day I get paid less than my white counterparts doing the same jobs but I'm not mad at white people.
My dad told me when I was 6 years old that I had to work twice as hard for half the money. Accept it and succeed. Fight it and live in misery. I was able to succeed and continue moving forward because I forgave my country and forgave the men and women who trespassed against me. I couldn't find a job in NC 7 years ago so I started my own small business.
I had to get on my 10 year old this week because he didn't like picking the rose pedals out of the mulch in my flower beds. He was whining and crying while doing it so I had to tell him in a forceful but loving way. Life is not fair. You don't always get to do the things you like to do; you also have to do the things you don't like. What you do is not a reflection of your character; how well you do the job directly reflects your character. You get to choose to either be a whiny quitter or someone people can depend on to get the job done.
Hate and anger beget misery and misery loves company. Look man life is not fair and blaming groups of people for your bad luck is your choice but it also going to keep you from experiencing the American dream or have you given up?
From my perspective - it's tough being a white male in America. One question though because I have never figured it, how do other people always know how much money other people are making? I never once knew what a colleague made. I know I make less now because I undercut the bid to ensure the contract because I can do the work of three people and don't have to hire anyone.
However, I do think your original point about how much of the hatred in this country stems from the people with money oppressing those without is valid. Although, of course those "with the green" are just as capable of hating other wealthy people of other races, religions and gender preferences as working people. They're just better at expressing their hatred in less obvious, behind the scenes ways (like funding political candidates who share their views).
No intended connection other than listing multiple real world problems.
My beliefs on ISIS exploiting these kids has nothing to do with Allah. It has more to do with hate and the desire to go out with bang. The Columbine and various school shootings, the Aurora Theatre shooting and things like the OK State Building bombing were all committed by Americans on Americans. ISIS will find a way to reach these frustrated youth and exploit that anger, frustration and despair without the use of Allah. They are going to exploit - not have them join their cause.
I'm not angry.
I'm pointing out that while I have as much "right" to be angry as anyone else, I'm not angry. Not at who you seem to think I'm angry at, anyway. I am angry at the 1%, I suppose.
I think we all need to let go of all the pointless anger, and focus on the things that are important. That's what I've been saying throughout the whole thread.
Go back to the beginning and look again with that thought in mind, rather than the pre-conceived "angry white male" prejudice.
That, and that I believe what St. Augustine said is right. The power that rules this world doesn't care one bit what we squabble about, as long as we keep squabbling. That's how the devil wins. That, and convincing us that there is no devil.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Money and infamy! We are creating a generation that cares mostly about money and likes on a post. Two things ISIS is not - dumb and poor. They will create a site attracting the young, frustrated and most importantly violent. Once at that site, a chat will begin to collect personal information and current motivations. Then after a trust\friendship has been developed it will go something like this ---- I'll put 1000 Bitcoin (that's about $225K give or take daily bitcoin value) in your account. You don't have a bitcoin account, that's ok, I can create one for you or I'll send the money to make someone else's life easier. Who do you want that to be. Didn't you say your tired of seeing your mom struggle working 2 shifts. Your already pissed off at your schoolmates. Do this and your mom will never have to work two shifts again. If your interested Download Tor and go to this site https://p9io4hk7.onion ; login with username - Atlantateen1 password=W3lcome you'll get more instruction there.
That's how...
Tor being untraceable is commonly referred to as the Dark Web. Once there, atlantateen1 decides she can't hurt all her classmates. OK you don't want to hurt your classmates, I'll send you a tube of lip balm, a ticket to the Super Bowl and a first class flight and a suite to the hotel of your choice. You can party for three nights like a VIP. On your left will be a boy wearing a blue t-shirt ask him if he has a breath mint. He will give you a tube of chap stick. Be at the lemonade stand at Section 32 with 2:40 seconds left in the 2Qtr and give the chap stick and lip balm to the girl with pink hair wearing a yellow tube with jean jacket after she asks 'is your father in the army'....blah blah blah. Long story shortened, five kids have now taken 5 seemingly useless things to the Super Bowl and 1 kid combined them to make a plastic explosive. BOOM at the Super Bowl with no one able to stop it because they were kids without traces to Islam or terrorist organizations.
ISIS is going to use the skills we taught terrorists to fight Russia in Afghanistan and Khadafy in Libya against us at some point unless we stop thinking it won't or can't happen and become proactive instead of reactive.
If the women look like men and the men look like women, then how are you going to tell if you're in the right room?
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
And let's not forget that the vast majority of "serial" acts of violence in America aren't committed by psychos belonging to ISIS or other terrorist groups but by single individuals, largely acting alone.
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up, muddled up shook up world
Except for Lola."
Ray Davies was 40 years ahead of his time.
Let's hope I'm wrong but ISIS is not going to try to get Americans to JOIN. They are going to do everything possible to FACILITATE Americans turning on Americans. It is the only play that makes sense - easier to use Americans instead of sneaking in soldiers.
To end this thread on a note consistent with its intended content, I'd propose thinking of another song, a Don Henley tune,
Learn to be Still.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain