When Cubans are legal in the U.S., what about all the duplicate names?

Bob_Luken

I've heard of one lawsuit (Cohiba) relating to Cuban cigar companies suing non-Cuban cigar makers who use the same names but, aren't there LOTS of examples of this same-name situation going on? 

I don't know much about Cuban cigars and I don't keep up with a lot of industry news so, pardon me if I seen uninformed on this issue. I am. 

What about all the many examples like Montecristo? Established in Pre-revolution Cuba. The owners fled Cuba and re-established "their" brand in the Dominican Republic. Will there be a fight over those names? Has there already been?  

Gray4lines

Either there will be a lot of law suits, since Cuba claims they own the brand and so do other companies, or more likely brands will be bought out.

Also, Altadis who owns a large share in habanos s.a. also owns the non-cuban Montecristo, romeo y julieta, trinidad, uppman and maybe a couple more. I doubt there will be much of an issue with these... or altadis would kind of be suing itself. 

Gray4lines

Oh and there have already been rulings in favor of Cuba on Cohiba, I believe.  I'd have to double check

Gray4lines

http://halfwheel.com/supreme-court-denies-general-cohiba-case

Maybe I am the only one interested, lol!.  Here is a little summary of the Cohiba case.  Cohiba is a little different than the pre-revolution brands since it was created afterwards.  If any brand belongs to Cuba, it's Cohiba.  The others, as you mentioned, are tricky.

Cohiba is a fight over who filed when and who actually has a right to the name.-- the other brands clearly were born in Cuba, the brand creators or families left and re-established the name elsewhere.  So there's no question over who was first, I suppose, but who has legal right in the event of a government takeover.

While an interesting question, maybe it is still moot since the same company owns stakes in both brands.

Usaf06

I am interested, I just dont have anything to add. But I am enjoying your posts and reading material. 

Gray4lines

Usaf06 said:

I am interested, I just dont have anything to add. But I am enjoying your posts and reading material. 

Lol, sorry!  I think this stuff is cool. I recently read an article on this and other issues... I'll have to look for it.   Had some stories of other trademark disputes and there is one lawyer in particular, Frank Herrera, who does a lot of these cases. (He also sued Drew Estate over the Herrera Esteli cigar -  guess you cannot let that slide when you're known as the cigar lawyer!)

Here:

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/as-the-cuban-embargo-fizzles-the-battle-for-the-cigar-industry-smolders-6518765

jarubla

IIRC, Davidoff had a lawsuit in the 90's w/ Cuban Davidoff.
@danielzreyes can most likely elaborate as he is the resident Davidoff ninja

-Jay

Bob_Luken

Gray4lines said:

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/as-the-cuban-embargo-fizzles-the-battle-for-the-cigar-industry-smolders-6518765

Nice article. Thanks. 

jarubla

Correction--Davidoff lawsuit was in late 80's

-Jay

raisindot

Regardless of the outcome of all the brand-name legal wars, here are my predictions for what will happen once the embargo is lifted and Cuban cigars can legally be sold in the U.S. 

1. First wave will be millions of "beach vendor" counterfeit Cubans that will bypass U.S. distributors and be sold in bodegas, Miami tourist shops, and on Craiglist and other shadowy online sites. These will be bought by punters who know nothing about cigars and want to boast about being the first to have "real Cubans." These fakes will capture the Phlllies/Swisher Sweet low end of the market. 

2. Second wave will be genuine Cubans but of lower-quality brands that can be produced in bulk to meet enormous pent up demand in the U.S. These will be distributed by less-scrupulous distributors and sold in the kinds of retailers that call themselves "smoke shops" but keep their cigars in a small case next to the lottery ticket kiosk. This will cater to the low end of the market as well. 

3. Once the overall "fad factor" for Cubans has died down, and many punters get swindled by the fakes and lower-end garbage, sales of this cubotrash will gradually taper off. 

4. At the same time, the quality Cubans will enter the market and be distributed mainly by the reputable distributors and sold by the trustworthy B&M and online merchants. Since demand will be high, prices for the most well known and respected brands will be extremely high as the Cuban manufacturers struggle to increase output. The entrance of these quality Cubans into the U.S. market will force many non-Cuban manufacturers to lower the prices of their higher-end cigars,since many of these aficianados will give up the Opus Xes an Padrons for the higher end Cubans.

5. This increased competition will end certain brands--particular those that advertise themselves as "Cuban-seed" or "Cubanesque" and require manufacturers to improve the quality of their best products and shed brands that aren't selling. Numerous manufacturers were merge. I wouldn't be surprised to see Padron and Pepin merge, or to see Case Fuente buy up smaller Nicaraguans businesses to expand their tobacco sources. 

6. After about two years or so, and buying Cubans becomes commonplace and many "cigar hipsters" go back to caffe lattes, the market will shake out and Cuban cigars won't necessarily dominate the market but compete on equal terms with Nicaraguan and Dominican companies. 

Gray4lines

It seems like having the embargo in place would facilitate black markets more than when it ends. I do not think fakes will swamp the U.S. Counterfeiters already sell to Americans on vacation, why come here to do it?  There may be an influx of uneducated buyers, but those are typically the ones who buy fakes right now.  I don't see this marginal group of buyers growing much, and definitely not enough to support counterfeiters inside the country.

I am with you on the fad-based bubble in demand. I wonder if Cuba swill set retail price agreements to maintain competitive prices (and sell out) or let price markup rise as the supply is exhausted.  It will probaly be hard to buy a Cuban here at first.... but I can't say that's different than now! Lol.

I think they will be able to handle the demand better than some believe. Certainly, they see this coming.

I definitely don't think Cuban competition will push out any of the premium Nicaraguan or Dominican brands.  Way too different of styles, they really aren't substitutes. Especially opus x and padron; high end Cubans cost just as much, even more already.  

There may be an interesting battle of companies who predominantly make more mild cigars.  Do you want a $6 Avo or a $6 Cuban RyJ or Ramon Allones?  Then again, none of the big guys have only mild offerings (Davidoff maybe? And Avo or the griffin lines).  

I guess overall, I see the same movements in the market, but I don't see any many radical changes.  I think the Cubans are overestimating how competitive they are.  Non-Cubans have started selling more worldwide and other countries have had a long time to grab the market here, not to mention tastes and rg trends.  If the market favored milder cigars, I would have a different opinion, but I think Cubans won't suit as many people.

raisindot

Gray4lines said:

It seems like having the embargo in place would facilitate black markets more than when it ends. I do not think fakes will swamp the U.S. Counterfeiters already sell to Americans on vacation, why come here to do it?  There may be an influx of uneducated buyers, but those are typically the ones who buy fakes right now.  I don't see this marginal group of buyers growing much, and definitely not enough to support counterfeiters inside the country.

Because the vast majority of Americans don't travel to places where even counterfeit Cubans are sold. These punters will suddenly see "Cuban cigars" in their local convenience stores and buy them, thinking they're in the vanguard. In reality, it's far more likely that instead of selling "Carribean counterfeit Cubans" most of the convenience store will sell cheapos cigars you can get here whose labels have been replaced by fake Cuban cigar labels.

"Wow, who thought these Cohibas would taste exactly like Garcia and Vega?" 

ExpendableYouth

I don't know how impacted the CC market will become. They are already servicing at least a certain percentage of the U.S. Markets, and they don't see to sell every box they produce at this point either. You can still find limited and regional releases for numerous brands with not much effort. I am sure there will be a jump in counterfeits, but if you are buying from a lounge or online distributor I think you will be fine from the get-go. This is still a long ways off if the media and politic scholars are right about it anyway.

Gray4lines

I gotcha... hmmm, not sure if this would happen on a large scale or not.  Cuba will be on the lookout even more so, and will do anything to protect their brand.  But there are always uneducated buyers who no matter what safeguards Habanos s.a. has, will still insist on buying "Cubans" on craigslist. 

ExpendableYouth

Well there's no helping some people. If you choose to buy your cigars on Craigslist than you get what you deserve.