Just a thought

Amos_Umwhat

I was laughing at @Webmost's joke about Dem/Rep/Southerners, and remembered an op-ed piece by Ron Paul (my hero) in last weeks paper.

In the article, he pointed out that France already has most of the regulations regarding guns, and most of the invasive and pervasive surveillance that the anti-gun keep-us-safe crowd are clamoring for here.  And did it stop any terrorist attacks in France in the past year? 

I don't think so, do you?

webmost

Sadly irrelevant. History past or present, logic, statistics, facts of any sort have no weight whatever in deciding this issue. Governments' stake is to make subjects ever more servile. Liberals' stake is hysterical hoplophobia. One wants stooges, the other wants Disneyland. Neither wants facts.

I remember after Kennedy's assassination, when the first wave of gun controls swept the nation, people pointed out that Oswald broke half a dozen gun laws already (not to mention the law against don't murder the prez!). This fact had zero effect then or since.

I work next to a rabid liberal in the next office. Given a proper browbeating he can rarely almost be brought to acknowledge one or two facts; but then, he will exclaim: "but we have to do something!" This is what passes for political discourse among them.

Usaf06

Gun laws only hurt law abiding citizens. Criminals don't obey laws which is why they are criminals.

SleevePlz

This really shouldn't be that complicated. There should be laws preventing certain people from legally obtaining firearms. I know that they could just get them illegally, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws preventing the legal acquisition. I was surprised that I was able to purchase my first handgun a few years back in the matter of about two hours including perusing two different stores and registering it at the sheriff's department. Considering I have to get a background check to volunteer at my son's elementary school despite being a public school teacher myself, I found it odd that there was absolutely nothing to do to buy a gun. Which also makes me wonder why people keep claiming that gun rights are eroding. I live in a blue state and bought it while there was a Democratic president and the process could not have been any easier. I get it that that could change, but I've been hearing these complaints my whole life, it seems. All that said, I need to go buy another before it gets harder....lol. 

kswildcat

I love how they say nobody wants to take your guns then turn around and say we need to do what Australia and other countries have done.

I like to think of myself as an independent free thinker, but tend to be on the conservative constitutional side. Use to love debating my ex gf's dad as he thought Obama is the best thing since sliced bread. Man was sure stubborn  and no matter how many facts you put in front of him he said it was all a lie. I loved to show him my firearm and ammo collection and made a point to inform him of new additions lol

There is some totally right wing loons that seem to believe NOBODY should be stripped of their right to bear arms no matter how evil they are. I do not believe evil people should be able to own or handle firearms. Also believe anyone wanting to utilize their 2nd ammendment should have some safety training by someone that actually knows firearm safety. I know 1 guy that I'm suprised hasn't killed someone. He teaches his children the same bad habits and same bullheadedness of not listening to anyone. 

Usaf06

Tony, you can't buy a handgun anymore without a 2 or 3 day waiting period unless you have a concealed weapons permit. The funny thing is as a cop I would still have to wait the waiting period unless I have my concealed permit. Mind you, I have been a firearms instructor for several years and can teach concealed permit classes. Government is absurd in their policies and take common sense out of everything. 

kswildcat

Usaf06 said:

Tony, you can't buy a handgun anymore without a 2 or 3 day waiting period unless you have a concealed weapons permit. The funny thing is as a cop I would still have to wait the waiting period unless I have my concealed permit. Mind you, I have been a firearms instructor for several years and can teach concealed permit classes. Government is absurd in their policies and take common sense out of everything. 

Not true. Maybe in your state. I've purchased 2 handguns in the last 6 months (1 Dec 26).. 30 min out the door.

Tony. If you buy a firearm from a ffl you went thru a background check. The ffl calls the feds after you fill out registration form. Feds will either approve, deny or can put you on a pause depending on your record. They know the make, model and serial number before you walk out the door.

kswildcat

Mandatory 3 day waiting period was the Brady bill.. expired yrs ago.

Laws very state to state. As far as I know no state has mandatory 3 day wait on handguns.

Kansas is constitutional carry. Do not even need concealed carry permit.

Wylaff

NV is the same. You only need CCW to conceal

kswildcat

Even tho Kansans are not required to have a permit to open or conceal carry I believe they should seek training. Be a bad deal to get shot with your own gun. If not prepared to use it don't skin it is my motto

Usaf06

Florida still has a mandatory 3 day waiting period unless you have a concealed permit. If your asking me I don't think there should be a wait. As a LEO most would think we are anti gun but it's the opposite. We believe in the Constitution and believe in the second amendment 

kswildcat

I've dealt with LEO from NYC to LA. My experience is 99% are doing a great job. People think cops have attitudes and need to change. It's my belief they should look in the mirror on how their attitude and how they treat LEO.. I love watching a city cops puzzled face when I'm polite and treat him or her with respect, lost count  how many times I've heard "your not from around here are you" or "were are you from".

Amos_Umwhat

kswildcat said:

I love how they say nobody wants to take your guns then turn around and say we need to do what Australia and other countries have done.

I like to think of myself as an independent free thinker, but tend to be on the conservative constitutional side. Use to love debating my ex gf's dad as he thought Obama is the best thing since sliced bread. Man was sure stubborn  and no matter how many facts you put in front of him he said it was all a lie. I loved to show him my firearm and ammo collection and made a point to inform him of new additions lol

There is some totally right wing loons that seem to believe NOBODY should be stripped of their right to bear arms no matter how evil they are. I do not believe evil people should be able to own or handle firearms. Also believe anyone wanting to utilize their 2nd ammendment should have some safety training by someone that actually knows firearm safety. I know 1 guy that I'm suprised hasn't killed someone. He teaches his children the same bad habits and same bullheadedness of not listening to anyone. 

I think you make some really good points here.  When I was in the Army, I was in Armor.  Tankers spend a lot of time learning, and shooting a number of weapons.  After reaching the rank of Sergeant there were numerous times I was selected as Range Safety NCO, and I still adhere to those principles today.  Same when teaching younger family members how to shoot.

It would seem to me that for folks like myself, a DD214 (honorable discharge) should suffice as proof, and also for LEO's etc., to satisfy that we are competent to purchase weapons.  It also seems that for those who cannot show such training or experience that there should be some kind of education and verification process. 

I think that one of the things that scares some of us is the idea of yet another govt. agency being in charge of this process.  After all, look how many idiots are out there driving "just like my Daddy taught me".

webmost

Amos_Umwhat said:

 After all, look how many idiots are out there driving "just like my Daddy taught me".

You would be surprised to discover the stats show you are slightly safer learning from Daddy than you are learning from drivers ed. I know I was. I ran into that odd reality when researching the equally surprising outcome that motorcycle safety courses slightly increase your chances of wrecking. These studies are almost always commissioned by the same DMV agencies which want to require compulsory classes; but they come out backwards to their purpose; tho their purpose remains undeterred.

These strange results hold true all around the world, by the way.

Caveat: There are a slew of preposterous studies out there, where they may call 63 respondents on the phone one afternoon, ask a few questions, then extrapolate all to hell and back for the next six months. Look for the better ones, studies with a decent sized sample and a sensible methodology. IIRC, a good place to start is a pair of researchers named Simpson and Mayhew, out of Canada, who studied the studies themselves.

When I mentioned this oddity to three MSF instructor friends of mine, all three said essentially "I know, but the money is good." One handed me a sheaf of printed studies from Australia and Germany concluding the same.

It makes no sense, I know. But neither does the seahorse make any sense. Nevertheless, there it is, wee diaphanous wings and all.

kswildcat

Amos_Umwhat said:

kswildcat said:

I love how they say nobody wants to take your guns then turn around and say we need to do what Australia and other countries have done.

I like to think of myself as an independent free thinker, but tend to be on the conservative constitutional side. Use to love debating my ex gf's dad as he thought Obama is the best thing since sliced bread. Man was sure stubborn  and no matter how many facts you put in front of him he said it was all a lie. I loved to show him my firearm and ammo collection and made a point to inform him of new additions lol

There is some totally right wing loons that seem to believe NOBODY should be stripped of their right to bear arms no matter how evil they are. I do not believe evil people should be able to own or handle firearms. Also believe anyone wanting to utilize their 2nd ammendment should have some safety training by someone that actually knows firearm safety. I know 1 guy that I'm suprised hasn't killed someone. He teaches his children the same bad habits and same bullheadedness of not listening to anyone. 

I think you make some really good points here.  When I was in the Army, I was in Armor.  Tankers spend a lot of time learning, and shooting a number of weapons.  After reaching the rank of Sergeant there were numerous times I was selected as Range Safety NCO, and I still adhere to those principles today.  Same when teaching younger family members how to shoot.

It would seem to me that for folks like myself, a DD214 (honorable discharge) should suffice as proof, and also for LEO's etc., to satisfy that we are competent to purchase weapons.  It also seems that for those who cannot show such training or experience that there should be some kind of education and verification process. 

I think that one of the things that scares some of us is the idea of yet another govt. agency being in charge of this process.  After all, look how many idiots are out there driving "just like my Daddy taught me".

I'm not advocating for government mandated training. Last thing we need is more government.  1 thing I tell people is although the 2nd ammendment is a right and not a previlidge it is our duty to be responsible. 

Sadly common sense is not so common anymore. Alot of firearm safety is common sense. And with a little common sense you should know if someone is teaching/showing you bad habits. Most LEO and military, ex military I know are eager to show people proper firearm safety as well as some training. 

As far as daddy teaching me it depends on who daddy is. I know my brother in law is just an average citizen but I would rather walk a field pheasant hunting with my nephew and niece whom he taught then some adults.

Bat-masterson

<. They know the make, model and serial number before you walk out the door.</div> --------------------- No the feds do not know what or how many you bought before you leave. Only time they would know is when ATF does a yearly audit but more like a 5 year audit and still they mostly just check to see record keeping and if forms are filled out correctly. Dont even care of what you bought. Dealer does put serial numbers on form but those are not mentioned on call in.

kswildcat

My last firearms purchase appeared to be all online (which seemed odd to me as a month or so another was a call in, but different shop so do not know if that was the difference). Salesman did appear to be typing in serial numbers on the computer. 

I do not have a FFL  nor have I seen the feds system. I would think a serial number would be much like a Vin number. Have often wondered if some sort of feds are at manufacturer's to do the ballistic firing or if an honor system, and if they have to send in the projectile before firearm can leave warehouse. It does amaze me there can be enough difference of projectile marks (and casing marks) that can pin point a specific weapon.

Usaf06

I have had the test fired projectile included in the box when I hava purchased pistols

kswildcat

You must be special. I only get the brass

jarubla

You guys see this back in Nov?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-bullet-casings-20151107-story.html

kswildcat

First time I've seen it. I've always been skeptic of the ballistic stuff. Just always seemed kinda far fetchrd.

As far as Baltimore what a mess that city is as far as crime and such. Glad I don't run that area.

Back when I first started driving truck I had built up some experience but switched jobs and started pulling a meat rail. Beings I never pulled a reefer I had to ride with a guy for a week. We were in Chicago one night and a guy jumped up on the truck and asked if we need anything, "women, candy or anything". Guy I was with said yeah I want a colt python. Wasn't but 3hrs and the guy was back at the truck with a brand new in the box colt python. Them city boys know we're to get stuff

Bat-masterson

kswildcat said:

My last firearms purchase appeared to be all online (which seemed odd to me as a month or so another was a call in, but different shop so do not know if that was the difference). Salesman did appear to be typing in serial numbers on computer .

.......... Nope, never once is the firearm or serial number mentioned in the call in by phone or computer to NICS serial number is put on the form and filed away by FFL. I picked up 10 lowers last week and he did not add them to the form til he hung up with NICS, only because he was going to give consecutive numbered ones and wanted to make sure i passed before he spent half hour digging them up for me. But he did enter them before i left. When you hear there was a 185,000 calls in on black friday there was more firearms sold then call in because NICS does not know how many firearms was on each call in.