Gosh, here's an idea....

jlmarta

SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Resolve, Semper Fi!

 

A Marine veteran of WWII overhead someone say: "You can't bomb an ideology."

Here's his reply:

 

"The hell you can't - we did it. These Muslims are no different than the Japanese. They had their suicide bombers too. And we stopped them. What it takes is the resolve and the will to use a level of brutality and violence that your generation can't stomach. And until you can, this **** won't stop.

We did what was necessary - we did whatever it took. We stormed the beaches, we cleared out caves with flame throwers, and we sent men like LeMay to burn down their cities and kill people by the tens of thousands. And then it took two atom bombs on top of it. But if that was what it took to win, we were willing to do it. Until you are willing to do the same... well I hope you enjoy this ****, because it ain't going to stop."

0patience

Marty, 
We've become a nation of wimps.
The political correct movement won't be happy until it's illegal to be politically incorrect. We can't have people offended.We might hurt their feelings.

If we had to fight world war II today, we'd have lost our ****.
We'd have been destoyed by our own policies and regime.

It's one thing to have a "always loyal" military, but if their superiors make stupid orders, then what? 
Have the best military in the world with morons running the show?
That works so well.

jlmarta

Yep. We're definitely a nation of wimps. And it doesn't help when POTUS fires his best generals because he knows they oppose his methods.....

90+_Irishman

It's absolutely pathetic and knowing that my generation is a big part of the problem is a level of shame, granted I agree far more with how things used to be done and handled than they are today. Corporate America is a fine example of that and working in it is such a sad, frustrating and anger inducing reality. Wish it would change back in many ways. 

Brett

Amos_Umwhat

jlmarta said:

Yep. We're definitely a nation of wimps. And it doesn't help when POTUS fires his best generals because he knows they oppose his methods.....

Yep.  If you're not fighting to win, at all costs, you're not fighting a war.  You're just playing general.  As for firing the real Generals, hasn't everyone read The Art of War by now?  Sun Tzu was very specific,

There are times when it is necessary for the General to ignore the Emperor.

This is because the Emperor is political, the General is the warrior.  It's not a difficult concept.  No one ever won a war by being politically correct, did they?

Guitarded

http://theweek.com/articles/646621/bloody-history-labor-day 
An interesting history of the holiday. Labor unions are not popular these days, but they are responsible for 8 hour days, 40 hour work weeks, overtime pay, and child labor laws. 

jlmarta

I hadn't anticipated that this thread would devolve into one regarding labor unions, Mike, @Guitarded, but as long as we're here.... 

In the nature of give-and-take as happens on forums and other platforms, let me give you my 'take' on the continuing need for labor unions. 

To begin with, by their very nature they are predominantly, if not completely, liberal in their beliefs. It is also my opinion that labor unions have long ago outlived their usefulness. 

In the beginning, when labor unions first began, there was a definite need for them. I have no argument with that. Workers were being seriously taken advantage of by employers. The unions changed that. They changed it to the point where the worker began to receive a fair wage for his work and fringe benefits as well. 

As time went by, the philosophy of the labor union began to change. The principal thrust of the union was still to get better wages and benefits for the workers but, between members of the Union management, the ulterior motive was to create a hierarchical regime to continue and further the income and power of union management personnel. 

Whenever an industry began to realize that demands by the Union for wage or benefit increases were becoming unreasonable and refused to raise them, the union's weapon (a strike) would be brought into play. 

Some wins - some losses - fast forward a number of years and you arrive at a point where some (not all) Union members aren't as enamored with their leadership as they used to be. The leadership then begins a campaign of making even more ridiculous demands of the industry leaders thereby enabling them (Union management) to justify their continued existence as the "provider of good things" to the worker. After all, the pay, perks, and benefits for Union management members is pretty darned nice. 

Union management has been known to fabricate grievances and/or make unreasonable demands designed to incite their membership toward 'strike' action while solidifying their status as leaders and providers of good things with their members. Sounds pretty much like our liberal government, doesn't it?  The mantra being "Keep us in power so we can keep providing the goodies". 

I've experienced a number of these things during my career in the construction industry. I was once assigned as Project Controller to a project in Delaware. When I arrived on the jobsite and went looking for the Project Manager to introduce myself I was told that the original PM wasn't available and that a replacement would arrive in a day or two. I asked what happened with the original PM and was told that he'd been chased out of the county by a Union agent who was in his car, chasing the PM, and shooting at him. It seems the PM had flatly refused some of the ridiculous demands made by the Union. 

On another project in Oklahoma, the jobsite was about 40 miles from one particular union hall. A lot of the members of that Union who worked on this project lived within about five miles of the project. The way the union contract was written it stated that if a worker lived more than 35 miles from the project he was entitled to travel pay in addition to his wages, etc. 

A large percent of the workers who lived nearby and worked on this project had shown as their residence address the address of the union hall. They were scamming us for the travel pay so I refused to pay it. And when I brought this up to our company's top management I was over-ruled in order to prevent any work stoppage over it. 

Those are only a couple of the types of things that I encountered as a Project Controller on numerous jobsites. Suffice it to say that I never had any fondness for labor unions. 

And I'm not even going to touch on the subject of organized crime infiltrating the ranks of labor unions. It's there - we all know it - but no one seems willing or able to do anything about it. 

Guitarded

Marty,
 I apologize for thread jacking and I absolutely agree with your comments above. My grandfather, who worked in the shipyards in Mobile and Norfolk, told me a long time ago "at one time the labor unions were the best thing to happen and one day they will be the worst". 
I just wanted to post something to remind members here why we have his holiday. 

jlmarta

No apology necessary, Mike. I did the same thing on a thread Silvermouse started the other day. 

Anyway, your post gave me an 'intro' to where I could post an item that's been stuck in my craw for years....  

Have a great day, Bro.... 

Guitarded

I hope your craw feels better now! Have a great day! 

0patience

I have been a union member for the past 25 years and agree whole heartedly with Marty's comments.
Unions have become legalized extortion. 

Union management grow fat and lazy with union member's monies.
They get the attitude that if you don't like it, go somewhere else.
They are no longer run by people who have worked the jobs, but by suits who have no idea what it is to work 12-16 hours a day.

jlmarta

Well said, Tony. Thank you. 

And a PS - glad to see you back aboard, my friend. I'm sorry for your losses and wish you the strength to deal with them and the fortitude to push on...  

dirtdude

My new job is unionized, AZ is a right to work state meaning you work under the contract but dont have to be a member. I was an Operating Engineer for 29 years in a state where you had no choice if you wanted to work yet have no accrued benefits. Guess I have a decision to make in a couple months

jlmarta

As I recall, Colorado is (or was) a right-to-work state as well. I was on a project there in the early 70's. I guess I always figured RTW was a step in the right direction....  But the unions are still there in the background, so to speak..  

dirtdude

my experience with a previous employer that had several sites scattered throughout RTW states was the union shops recieved lower pay and benefits than non-union, just what I saw

peter4jc

I was a Teamster for close to 30 years.  They did very little for us, for the dues we paid.

My statement has always been, "Those companies that have a union, deserve it."

Unions and owners embody the worst parts of human nature; if owners would simply treat their workers like human beings and not be motivated by their own greed, the workers would respond correctly and do their best, and the world would be a happy place.

jlmarta

I may have mentioned this in a previous post but I was on a project near Yosemite in the early 60's while Mr. Hoffa was robbing his members blind. A friend of mine was a teamster on that project and I asked him one day what he thought of Jimmy's thieving ways. 

My friend was ready to kick my azz for making such a remark. He was seriously angry with me. But he admitted later that I was right. I guess one doesn't blaspheme against union bosses....  

Diver43

jlmarta said:

SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Resolve, Semper Fi!

 

A Marine veteran of WWII overhead someone say: "You can't bomb an ideology."

Here's his reply:

 

"The hell you can't - we did it. These Muslims are no different than the Japanese. They had their suicide bombers too. And we stopped them. What it takes is the resolve and the will to use a level of brutality and violence that your generation can't stomach. And until you can, this **** won't stop.

We did what was necessary - we did whatever it took. We stormed the beaches, we cleared out caves with flame throwers, and we sent men like LeMay to burn down their cities and kill people by the tens of thousands. And then it took two atom bombs on top of it. But if that was what it took to win, we were willing to do it. Until you are willing to do the same... well I hope you enjoy this ****, because it ain't going to stop."

This Veteran is a wise man. Wearing a uniform for 20 plus years and serving still as a civilian for 16 more I feel a little qualified to add.  Our Armed Forces of today are among the best and I love each and every one of them.  However our bureaucrats today are making rules that force our leaders to mold wimps.  They honestly believe that everyone is a winner and deserves a reward or trophy even if they fail. That those older and above them owe them something for nothing.  Some are learning that this theory does not hold true in the real world and are giving their all for little or no gain. The suits in Washington need to stop attempting to lead our Military when they have not served even one day in uniform but pretend that they know what is best. Let our real Generals and NCO's lead our troops the way they must be led to win, not be politically correct

Amos_Umwhat

Preach it Brother!  Amen!